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I’m sure this is old territory, but I get triggered when my 24 yo son takes a shower. He has OD’d twice in there, and used frequently. I tried to message him:
“ I know that hovering is irritating. Since you’ve used in the bathroom before, I get anxious after a while. It’s reassuring when you shower and don’t use. It means a lot to your recovery, IMHO.”
His shower was shorter, snd he’s out of the BR. He doesn’t seem triggered. I did some breathing to settle down.
Any feedback?
My son is 23 years old . He’s in treatment now I’ve been enabling him in different ways without knowing. Should we allow him to come home after treatment or he should be on his own right away thanks
Welcome to the site blacklady. There is so much to consider when thinking of having your Loved One home. Here are some introductory level posts that will help you start thinking it through. Also, we just recorded a podcast on this very subject. https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=500 It will be out shortly.
I am so happy to have been referred to this site. Our problem right now is that we have no idea if our son is using or not. He only contacts us by phone text if he needs money. He gives us no information. He also has BPD. We can only guess at this point.
buckeyebunny,
We’re so happy you got the referral and are here! Welcome!
You are not alone in this situation of your Loved One being out of touch, or far away, and your only communication being when he needs something. Many families on this site are working to make CRAFT successful despite physical distance and limited communications.
We have a couple of tags on the Discussion Blog that will bring you to posts you might want to peruse:
– “loved one far away” (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=294)
and
– “texting” (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=516)
With a solid understanding of CRAFT, which you’re getting as you go through the Learning Modules, plus a touch of creativity, you should consider texts and the phone to be your new canvas, a new, wide-open place to express things CRAFTily and begin rebuilding the bridge between you and your son.
You may also really get an excellent jump-start by listening to two recent podcast episodes we recorded:
Learning how to apply CRAFT with a LO who’s far away: (https://alliesinrecovery.net/podcast_coming_up_for_air-podcast-74-learn-how-to-apply-craft-with-a-loved-o)
and its sequel:
Do’s & don’ts when you’re on the phone with an addicted Loved One:
(https://alliesinrecovery.net/podcast_coming_up_for_air-podcast-75-dos-donts-when-youre-on-the-phone-with)
As you text, keep in mind the following:
— don’t ask questions or put them on the spot,
— don’t act needy, as if for you to feel OK, you need them to respond,
— don’t talk about/allude to the use
— avoid a ‘worried’ tone
— do remind them that you’re there,
— do remind them that you’re ready to help with treatment when they’re ready (use this one sparingly!!),
— do remind them in different, clever ways of the warmth, connection and fuzzy feelings that they could have more of, IF they inched a little closer back into your world
— do apologize if you overstepped a boundary recently,
— do reward them with encouraging words if you can figure out anything at all that they’ve done that you see as positive, non-use, or a step towards recovery.
A couple of ideas for neutral, supportive texts (keeping ) :
“Hello son, thinking of you today and just wanted to send you a big warm hug!”
“Was taking a walk and saw (xyz thing that reminds you of him in a good way) and thought I’d just send a quick message to say hi. OX”
“Dearest, it’s been a few days and I wanted to send this little message to remind you we are here for you and love you deeply.”
and on and on and on.
Texts are actually awesome (even though when it’s all you’ve got it can of course feel quite limited, and frustrating when you want to apply CRAFT in all its splendor) … How are texts awesome for our objectives?
– excellent, short and contained ways to practice neutral, positive communications
— a good way to avoid conflict/arguments
— perfect for getting sweet and loving (attach a picture that will make them smile, use emojis…)
— think of your text as a postcard – you can truly make it a one-way communication sometimes, just share what you did today, or where you went, just drop a few morsels of your existence that might strike a chord with him and remind him of positive memories.
Of course, we are not suggesting sending 10 texts a day. The idea is building the bridge gradually, leaving some pauses to reinforce the contrast between “with family” and “without family” or “with connection” and “without connection”. Pace them with what you know of him, and what feels natural for you.
Of course, your goal is to get them to come towards you more often. Be ready for a phone call … listening to the ‘Reflective Listening’ podcast episode may help you with these calls in which a LO calls and has demands (https://alliesinrecovery.net/podcast_coming_up_for_air-podcast-69-youre-gonna-be-lousy-at-it-at-first-ref).
We’re wishing you all the best. Please do keep us posted!
Thank you for this response! My husband and I have started viewing the modules and learning CRAFT. I will listen and look at your suggestions. Our son has recently upped his requests for money to harassment levels. He wants us to cosign a $12,000 school loan. We are telling him no (via email). Not looking forward to what comes next.
My LO is diagnosed with treatment resistant depression, anxiety disorders, adhd, and ocd. He gets weekly therapy with a therapist, and weekly check-ins with his psychiatrist. He is currently going through ECT for his depression. He has had 5 sessions so far and does not feel any different. I know that is still considered early in the treatment, but he gives up easily if he doesn’t get results quickly.
He quit going to the gym regularly and getting together with friends, which are two red flags for him. He recently abused some sleeping meds by taking three pills during the day. We keep his prescriptions locked up, but he got his new meds from the pharmacy before we could lock them up. He’s struggled with drinking and abusing prescription drugs for years. His ruminating thoughts are his worst enemy. He told me that when he stops exercising and withdraws from friends and family that it’s a sign that he’s in a bad way.
I’m looking at CRAFT and trying to figure out what my response is at this point. He’s not drinking or abusing right now, but his choices to withdraw from everyone and not get out and exercise leave him ample time to entertain toxic, negative thoughts in his head. He’s also participating in DBT right now. He just doesn’t apply what he’s learning to his personal situation. I don’t think he knows how to establish little goals for where he is this day.
THank you for your question, Kspring. The complete answer is posted at
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-not-the-one-whos-sending-him-to-jail
He out foxed us.
We have been using CRAFT faithfully. Sadly – and shockingly – our son has entirely out maneuvered us.
We provide a rented room in a shared house for our now 27-year old son. When we established a boundary of not giving him any more cash (money, in any form, triggered more substance use) and offered to take him grocery shopping or have groceries delivered, he up and left his room (after a short self-guided detox from opiates) and moved into a multi-million dollar condo and is fully sponsored by (and working for?) what we assume is a criminal organization. Gifts galore….restaurant bought out for his birthday (during lockdown), thousands of dollars of designer gear in a birthday shopping spree, and now a Rolex being sported on his wrist. He calls them family. He has no suspicion that they mean him any harm and no qualms about being treated as “family” by virtual strangers.
The reason? He claims “we left him alone”. We told him to “work for it” (meaning money). We didn’t do either.
Our only CRAFT option is to not reward this behavior by being in contact with him while he is engaged in criminal activity or associating with these individuals.
We are stunned. And out foxed. WHAT IS OUR NEXT MOVE?
The story you tell of your son’s move from a room in a shared house, to a quick self-guided detox from opiates, to participation in a criminal organization which is setting him up with a cushy, luxurious lifestyle, is indeed astonishing.
It is unclear whether or not your son continues to use opiates or other substances, but in any case, he seems to be continuing to engage in unhealthy, dangerous and illegal activity.
Has he gone off the deep end … or is this just a highly dramatic way of rebelling against his family and/or punishing you? Or something else, or all of the above…? …
Read my full response to stacynewmancilento here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-outfoxed-us
My 27 year old son is actively using – not sure exactly what substances. He admitted to Meth and MJ and he is living with us (me and husband). He talks to us on very superficial and brief terms. He was arrested and sentenced to probation 2 years and community labor. I took him to the probation only once in March. He said he will take care of it himself but I observe no effort on his part.
I started CRAFT and the 12 steps training around that time. I realized I had been enabling him by letting him return home plus being on him about his legal obligations. He certainly does not appreciate the “controlling” “hovering” “nagging” mother and I identify that as one of his triggers to use. Subsequently, with the knowledge I gained from your website, I have backed off.
It has been three/ four weeks and he appears to be using less (risk reduced) but he is still very non verbal except when he uses. He stares into space, talking to himself when he uses, he talks excessively about space, God, Artificial Intelligence, and some other nonsense as well. I cannot get through to him when he is in that state.
Any suggestions as to how I can improve our communication? or how can I create an environment where he feels comfy and we can actually chat.
Thank you for any suggestions
Hi motherincrisis,
It is really wonderful to hear that you’ve started working on the Allies in Recovery (Allies) CRAFT-based modules. You report that this has helped you to identify some ways to change your approach with your son. Your goal is supporting a reduction in the stress he might experience that typically would have triggered him to use. It’s also very encouraging that he appears to have reduced his use.
You’re reaching out for more support with learning more communication skills and creating an environment that might help your son to feel more comfortable with you and perhaps help him be more open to suggestions.
Based on what you describe of your situation, the first modules I’d suggest you watch (or re-watch) are: …..
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to motherincrisis here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-backed-off-now-i-want-to-communicate-better
My alcoholic and depressed brother has been living with me for over a year. Antidepressants are not helping. He says he does not want to live but does not have a suicide plan. His plan is basically keep drinking and wait to die. I can’t live with this any more..he has totally given up on even little ways he was engaging in life. He refuses to consider even drinking less. He refuses any kind of therapy or groups. He drinks 12-16 beers a day. I considered section 35 but I am concerned that they will just detox him and not deal with the underlying depression. Do you have any advice for me? I have watched all of your videos which are somewhat helpful but do not seem to apply to him.
thanks.
Thanks so much for writing in. We have just recently published a post for another sister, catair, who’s in a similar situation: she is deeply concerned about her brother who seems to be “drinking himself to death.” Please take a look at our answer to her, when you can. It will also address your questions about Section 35.
While your fears are similar to those expressed by catair, I have the impression that your brother may actually be moderating his drinking (see this post in Resource Supplement). How sure are you that your brother drinks between 12-16 beers a day?
At 65 years of age, serious active beer drinkers are drinking more like a case and a half a day of beer a day. Two six-packs spaced out over the day, doesn’t get a seasoned drinker high. It is a baseline, a strategy of sorts, the minimum that will get and keep you in a slightly uplifted mood.
Read our full response to cdollard here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog
Hi I would like to get into support group for NAR- Anon.
My son is hook up on opiods substances . It’s very hard for me to accept this. Seeing my son to refused received treatment. He had to be removed from my home due to his inappropriate behaviors toward me and my husband . Now I am suffered with panic attacks ,Anxiety and Depression , currently receiving treatment with a clinician and psychiatrist. Just need to be able to managed my feelings emotions when I see other young fellas out there when I only think that could be my son . I haven’t seeing him since 3 days before Christmas last year I mis him very much I would like to give him a hug my love.
Thank you.
Hello medalit, thanks for your comment. I have sent you a link via email to connect with a Nar-Anon group near you (or online).
You write about having panic attacks, anxiety and depression. This is all very understandable given the trauma of having your child using dangerous substances, and disappearing from your world. I am so glad you are receiving professional treatment for this.
One of the best resources on this website is our podcast – you can listen right here on the site, or you can click “download” and put the episode on your computer or phone to listen to another time.
Laurie MacDougall is a mom who went through many of these exact issues, and she (and her son!) have come through to the other side. She has a giant heart, a lot of knowledge and has become an expert in the CRAFT method for families. Her co-host Kayla Solomon is a therapist with much experience with addiction in the family.
All of the topics addressed on our show are aimed at helping the family feel better, and move forward, both for themselves, and to become a better support for their Loved One. I really recommend you tune in and listen to a few episodes!
Here’s the link to the Podcast Menu: https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=183
All our best.
My loved one is an alcoholic and has been for about 12 years, being on and off with sobriety. He’s been secretly drinking (not to the point of being obviously drunk so it’s been hard for me to tell when he is drinking) for the last 6 months, although he has just entered rehab for 21 days (so grateful).
He also has adult ADD and is not managing that with any medications. I’m curious if there is a link between ADD and alcoholism? I’ve read a few things that say there is and I’m wondering if suggesting to try out some non-addictive medication (for his ADD) to see how he feels on it might help with relapse.
shunter1111, Dr. John Fitzgerald (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=183) has provided the following response to your question:
“There really is not much information here. Usually we treat ADD with stimulant medications, but people can use alcohol to self-medicate symptoms. If the person has diagnosable ADD then they should explore with a prescriber medication options. Hopefully in rehab the person will have a comprehensive evaluation to see what else is driving the drinking, perhaps other co-occurring disorders – depression, trauma, and attachment.”
Hope this helpful. Best, Isabel
shunter1111: Medications for treating other conditions like a learning or mood disorder, anything behavioral really, should be considered. Use CRAFT skills (module 8) to guide your LO towards a trained professional. So I agree with John. Look for psychiatrists or behavioral health/psychiatric nurse practitioners. Perhaps your Loved one would also consider something to help with the drinking, such as naltrexone.
We don’t know how your LO will react to an ADD drug. There are multiple paths to recovery, medications for other behavioral health issues and for the drinking should be explored carefully. You can help by finding someone for your LO to see and shepherding your LO into an appointment with a prescriber for an explorative conversation. Thank you for your question.
My loved one is sober for 4 months. He is in an intensive therapy group 3 days a week. He has double diagnosis. Our communication is sometimes good, sometimes not…we do our bests.
For several weeks now, he plays a game on his telephone and laptop, it s about golf and produces some noises. So he sits and plays. I do not like it but I try to stay calm and relaxed, as I read that it was quite common recovering addicts taken on such an activity. I thought it was also best to avoid a sort of power struggle about it.
But I think I hoped he would play less after a while, which is not the case. it s hard to make eye contact, to say a proper “see you next week’ or give him a spontaneous hug, as he is cought up in his play and often irritated to be disturbed.
It leaves me depressed…What should I do?
Hello lieveDo:
Thanks so much for writing in and sharing the encouraging news that your Loved One has been abstinent from alcohol for several months now. Good for him! and Good for you, we know you have made plenty of efforts to help him using CRAFT.
We touched upon this issue in our last podcast. Laurie and Kayla talked about the usefulness of these video/online games in early recovery as a coping tool to avoid relapse. It is, of course, possible to slide towards too much use of video games, something to think about later, but for now your Loved One sounds like he’s doing very well with sobriety, and the games help keep his mind occupied.
As for his hurtful lack of goodbye, give it time. Say your goodbye when you see a pause in his use, after a bathroom break? Abstinence doesn’t equal emotional maturity, nor even politeness.
And our timeframe and expectations are not the same as their timeframe and expectations. Deep breath.
Dear Dominique, thank you. It’s good to remind me to give it time and to focus on the sober part. That is an accomplishment! And to be aware that so much is going on. I will continue to learn…
Hi
I have a brother who is very sick with his alcohol addiction. It is so bad he has become unable to walk and at times is incontinent. He was recently in a well-known hospital for 12 days then taken to a rehab/nursing home. At this time he is still considered able to communicate and take care of himself supposedly and he signed himself out. Within two days he was back to hard-core drinking, he did call and make an appointment at a treatment center for two weeks. My question is if he is so sick that his body is shutting down how can he live. He can’t stand by himself he can’t shower himself he does not eat, he only drinks. In the past two years he has gone into a treatment center four times and as soon as he leaves he comes home and drinks. He refuses to leave his house and go into a sober house. He has family and friends who care he had a job but was let go due to his drinking last year, he was a working alcoholic his boss told us. He is 62 years old and still in denial about his drinking . I am afraid that he will probably die either from falling or alcohol withdrawals. Are there any suggestions that family can help him? We did consider a section 35 which last year he probably would have been able to survive but right now I don’t think he could survive. As the person who lives closest to him are you should get the calls I try to be kind but it’s not always possible especially when it’s been going on for so long and he has very little respect for me or himself at this time.
You are writing in with a difficult question: where to draw the line in influencing your 62-year-old brother who is seriously drinking and has “given up…engaging in life.”
Is there a moment when the family heeds the Loved One’s apparent desire and lets the person drink themselves to death?
You might do it out of frustration as you describe it, or despair, since it looks like there are no good choices. Your brother is not able to stop drinking at home.
Your brother, though, is not completely resistant to seeking help. He books himself in for short-term detoxification but refuses the longer stays in less intensive care. He comes home and starts to drink again.
Your brother isn’t totally resistant to care, or he wouldn’t have gone to rehab, and wouldn’t have reserved a spot in treatment two weeks out.
Read my full response to catair here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-has-stopped-engaging-with-life
My Husband is approx. 2 months post-inpatient rehab (30 day stay) for alcohol use and I found out he missed one of his appointments for random testing (that was set up by him and his employer through a drug/alcohol monitoring program) as well as I found an empty wine bottle in his car. He admitted he has occasionally had a couple drinks here and there, but claims he is doing “really good” overall.
I am very upset and concerned; as this is pretty much how the pattern started back over the last couple episodes of hospitalizations for pancreatitis.
This is the first time that he went to in-patient rehab though. I want to be encouraging, but am again upset and back to square one with feeling resentful and betrayed.
I have read that many alcoholics have relapses and sometimes learn from it and can do better at trying to prevent it from happening again after a relapse, but if he is already slipping and falling back into the need/desire to drink, should I be very concerned? Does this mean he should possibly go back to rehab? He is also not consistently going to the AA Meetings (only if I ask or say are you going to a meeting this week) Also does not have a sponsor.
I just don’t want to feel like I have to start being the spy and searching for the bottles again, but how do I know what is really going on? He is not the “drunk” that drinks all day and comes in drunk; it is very difficult to detect when he has had a drink. He has always been more of the high functioning alcoholic.
I just don’t want to set myself up for unrealistic expectations; I just have a bad feeling that we are going backwards. I am worried that he still doesn’t acknowledge that he ever had a problem to begin with.
lbell, so glad you found us and so glad you wrote in about this issue. How old is your Loved One? Pancreatitis suggests a severe level of alcohol use, perhaps even chronic. We suggest you step in quickly if there is another hiccup. Chronic pancreatitis can be deadly.
Begin scripting and practicing the talk now (Key Observations #15 and #21 help you practice making basic requests & requests that they seek help):
“Love, I believe you when you say that overall you are really doing good. I can see it. You look good. I can tell you feel better. I also know we’re not kids. We have been together XX years, and I’m more hopeful than I’ve been in a long time.
I love you. I know that even a drop of alcohol is too much for you. You cannot afford to chip.
Would you be willing to spend a minute here now, talking with me about what we should do if you have another bottle of wine? Would you be willing to go immediately back to X (inpatient program) should something else happen?”
Module 8 guides you through doing a low-key intervention and making a request that your Loved One seek more treatment.
Read my full response to lbell here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-do-i-really-have-to-start-spying-again
Hi are there any support groups for grandparents of addicts?
Thanks for your question. Yes, this is a more and more common phenomenon and there are indeed networks and groups in place.
See Laurie MacDougall’s recent post that responds to a grandparent looking for support. She includes several good links to services out there: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-her-baby-was-taken-away-should-i-seek-custody
Also, here are all of the posts that come up when you go to the “topic/tag” on the Discussion Blog called “grandparents” : https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=312
Please let us know what you try/what works for you.
My girlfriend has been through detox 6 times this year. 2 Detox facilities, and 4 ER visits. She just left one after refusing to transfer to a long term rehab center and now is adamant that she will never drink again. I need a break from worrying about her and her drinking 24/7. I’ve asked for space, but she says I’m punishing her for finally getting help. I know we’re encouraged to reward sobriety. How do I take care of myself and not have this framed as me “kicking her out” just when she’s getting sober?
Hi Jamp, thanks so much for your question. Your Loved One (LO) has been in and out of detox and ERs over the last 6 months. She has now opted out of treatment at a long-term rehab center and is talking about going her recovery on her own.
You are exhausted, and aware that you need more time and space to take care of you, yet you desire to do things as gently as possible, so as not to discourage her or throw her off track.
We commend you for both of these objectives, and we think it is feasible to accomplish both.
Rather than “asking for space,” we suggest you gently “take some space.” Here’s what the microcosm of this might look like in a typical, day-to-day application of CRAFT:
Family member and Loved One are in the living room together. Loved One is cracks a beer, or is hungover, or otherwise pushing their family member away with aggressive behavior, blaming talk, etc. Family member (rather than saying “please leave, you’re drinking and you know I don’t like that”) quietly says, “I’m going to read in my room. See you tomorrow.”
The family member has taken her own needs into her own hands — who better to do so than oneself? — while making a point about the use/behavior, and letting her absence be felt… all this without saying more than 10 words. No conflict, no requests, no time for tension to mount.
In your situation, you seek to both support her sobriety, and support yourself. Riding her rollercoaster over the months and years is taking a toll on you and you must replenish your energy.
We suggest that _you_ be the one to take a leave, if only a temporary one. Again, this way you are telling, not requesting. Taking what you need and not expecting anyone else (especially someone who has just a few days’ or weeks’ sobriety) to be looking out for you.
Figure out where you can go, where you’ll still be close enough to see your LO regularly, and where you’ll truly be able to disconnect from the dynamics and drama of home. A place that feels peaceful, where no one will be asking you a million questions… where you are free to process and recuperate as needed.
Once arrangements have been made, find a moment that feels peaceful between you, and let your LO know in a gentle way what your plans are. Here is a sample of language you might use:
“Dearest, I love you. I am so proud of you for wanting to take your recovery by the horns. I believe in you and I want to be a great support to you.
I’ve decided to allow myself a short break away from home, for 1 week (2 weeks? 4? fill in the blank here) — please know this is by no means a punishment. It’s more about me. I care about you so much, and these past 6 months have been emotionally exhausting for me.
I can feel that my levels of fatigue and stress are high, and I know I won’t be much help to anyone like this. I hope you’ll understand that I’m giving myself this time to rest and recuperate.
I would love it if we could keep seeing each other while I’m gone. (Brainstorm some crafty covid-friendly date/outing options beforehand and mention some ideas). And if you agree, I’d like it if we could check in daily by phone?
I am so looking forward to knowing you sober, for our relationship to grow and evolve. Thanks for understanding my needs right now.”
In case it wasn’t obvious, the idea of dates/informal outings, and phone calls, is *rewards*. As long as she’s not using, you really want to keep rewarding her, even if you just can’t be that “rock” at home right now. She needs to feel your presence, your encouragement, and know that you’re appreciating her sobriety. But of course, your.oxygen.mask.first !!!
The other thing we would really encourage you to do (and maybe your hiatus will give you the space and time you’ll need, but feel free to start now, too) is immerse yourself in Module 4, “How Do I Talk to My Loved One?” (Here’s the link: https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=4&s=1) — this will help you vastly improve your communications, better manage difficult moments, and practice making requests that get you a “Yes” in response.
Keep us posted, we are rooting for you both. xo
Thank you so much for this response. I wish I had found this place earlier. The situation is complicated by us being at my mothers house, while my mom is out of town. All year we were in her house in Vermont, where I felt unable to leave because she would follow (drunk). I’ve been enabler in chief all year thinking I couldn’t leave because she would die. She slept all day only woke up to drink and she would be miserable. So was I of course. Aside from the few days after each detox. But I basically waited for her to pass out so I could do my work and pretended I was fine. We came here for work that was happening in the area (we’re actors). She was sober for 5 days before we came here I was hopeful, But she went out to mail something and got drunk, and everything exploded again and I realized how bad the situation has gotten for both of us. It was obvious to all my family. That was at my limit or my bottom I guess. I didn’t want her to die so while she was in a hotel room for her movie shoot in various states of drunkenness and being passed out I reached out to a substance abuse counselor who got her to go to detox. I communicated that I wasn’t comfortable with her plan to rehab on her own and wouldn’t go to Vermont or our NYC apartment with her because I don’t trust myself to not fall back into the enabling pattern. Does this info change any suggestions? I will do my best to apply your advice. Thank you so much.
Hi Jamp, thanks so much for your question. Your Loved One (LO) has been in and out of detox and ERs over the last 6 months. She has now opted out of treatment at a long-term rehab center and is talking about going her recovery on her own.
You’re exhausted, and aware that you need more time and space to take care of you, yet you desire to do things as gently as possible, so as not to discourage her or throw her off track.
We commend you for both of these objectives, and we think it is feasible to accomplish both.
Rather than “asking for space,” we suggest you gently “take some space.” Here’s what the microcosm of this might look like in a typical, day-to-day application of CRAFT:
Read our full response to Jamp here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-ive-been-enabler-in-chief-im-through
My partner has had a problem with anxiety for over 20 years and has treated it with alcohol. He also has a prescription for klonopin which he would use for his anxiety/hangovers, which eventually fueled this terrible cycle. He is currently sober of alcohol and benzo but now suffering from severe anxiety and panic attacks regularly which is affecting his daily life and ability to do things and even leave the house. He enrolled himself in a “dual diagnosis” IOP, but due to his anxiety can’t even leave the house let alone sit in a classroom for 6 hours. Luckily they are offering it through zoom, but his mental health is not being addressed and it is basically 6 hours of group AA. He is actively seeking help but does not know where to start, or what is the best option. What is the next best step for him? An inpatient program? Stick with dual diagnosis? IOP for mental health? Focus first on mental health? He thinks his anxiety is being dismissed and is only viewed as an alcoholic/addict of klonopin, and can’t seem to get his anxiety issues addressed appropriately. I can see him feeling hopeless and frustrated because he wants HELP to address both issues, but right now the anxiety and panic attacks are really taking over. I am trying my hardest to practice reflective listening, and be supportive but it’s hard to do that when I am lost myself in trying to help my loved one find appropriate treatment. Thank you for your guidance!!
Anxiety comes in many flavors – generalized, PTSD, social, OCD, and panic – but at the core, it’s about emotional regulation, or lack thereof.
Addiction, in part, is an adaptive response to not having the developmental capacities to self-regulate emotions, or to anxiety born from attachment, trauma and adverse childhood experiences.
Of course, he would benefit from effective treatment which first evaluates his anxiety (assuming sobriety time) in more detail, and then addresses it with the right interventions.
Some steps he can take now to address his own anxiety symptoms
There are a number of things that he can do on his own to address anxiety symptoms, including panic.
Here are five interventions to consider …..
Read John Fitzgerald’s full response to danie here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-abstinent-but-the-anxiety-is-out-of-control
What do you do when you are asking him to leave for he has been drinking and he refuses to leave? We just sweep it under the rug and walk away from him!
Glad you wrote in with this seemingly basic question! I feel as though you’re really on the right track here. With a few tweaks, I think we can get you even more clear and effective.
From my point of view, your question touches both on the specifics of ‘removing rewards’ à la CRAFT, and on boundaries – how to stick to a boundary you’ve laid down.
Reading your comment, I’m thinking, let’s figure out how to avoid this situation becoming habitual. You are trying to enforce a boundary and your Loved One is ignoring you. This is not great for anyone if it keeps happening: your Loved One will have less and less respect for your boundaries if you’re unable to really follow through with them, and you will end up feeling helpless, standing behind a boundary that’s not being respected.
Before we dig more into boundaries, allow me a moment to highlight the major points to keep in mind when considering how you use rewards.
Read my full response to Layla here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-a-refresher-on-removing-rewards
Hi again Layla, here’s Part 2:
Boundaries are only useful if you can follow through and stand behind them!
Our ‘Boundaries Queen’ at Allies is Laurie MacDougall, and if you haven’t read them already, we recommend that everyone check out her 2-part series on boundaries: here’s Part 1, and here’s Part 2. Laurie started out just like you — a family member on this site, looking for an approach to her Loved One’s SUD that resonated with her. Throughout the years of her applying CRAFT, shepherding her Loved One into recovery, and taking her own self-care and well-being by the horns, she has acquired a deep understanding of the importance of boundaries.
Substance Use Disorder (SUD) aside, as human beings, in contact and communication with other human beings, I figure knowing how to set a boundary and stick to it, is simply essential.
Here’s the cheat sheet I’ve put together after re-reading Laurie’s pieces on boundaries.
Read the full post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-a-cheat-sheet-on-boundaries
Hi again Layla, here’s Part 2:
Boundaries are only useful if you can follow through and stand behind them!
Our ‘Boundaries Queen’ at Allies is Laurie MacDougall, and if you haven’t read them already, we recommend that everyone check out her 2-part series on boundaries: here’s Part 1, and here’s Part 2. Laurie started out just like you — a family member on this site, looking for an approach to her Loved One’s SUD that resonated with her. Throughout the years of her applying CRAFT, shepherding her Loved One into recovery, and taking her own self-care and well-being by the horns, she has acquired a deep understanding of the importance of boundaries.
Substance Use Disorder (SUD) aside, as human beings, in contact and communication with other human beings, I figure knowing how to set a boundary and stick to it, is simply essential.
Here’s the cheat sheet I’ve put together after re-reading Laurie’s pieces on boundaries.
Read the full post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-a-cheat-sheet-on-boundaries
Hi there, I have done all the module and they are great. There is only problem, my friend who has a meth addiction, lives alone. I can’t tell when he is using versus sober in order to reinforce or not. He’s also really good at ‘acting’ normal even when high. He refuses to meet in person and doesn’t always answer his phone so I’m really stuck. Our only communication is the odd text and ever rarer, if he answers his phone. I’m so worried about him overdosing alone at home. Please help! Thanks, Kay.
kerina3000, welcome to the site and thank you for being such a concerned and supportive friend. We’ve recently recorded a podcast that may address some of your concerns. Here’s the link: https://alliesinrecovery.net/podcast_coming_up_for_air-podcast-74-learn-how-to-apply-craft-with-a-loved-o
We’d suggest you listen to it and see if it may spark any ideas on moving things forward with your friend. Once you’ve listened and had time to consider, please write back in and let us know if you have further questions. All our best!
Hello, thank you for your assistance. Your CRAFT modules provide guidance and support, thank you.
I am not sure what to do. My son (20s) struggling with substance use (meth). He has been in the hospital but not treatment. Two years ago he went through court ordered treatment for marijuana. So now he says he’s against treatment. He started seeing a psych. therapist for depression. He did not use for about 3 weeks after released from the hospital. But now he is again. He doesn’t realize that I know. I am using the techniques from CRAFT with him for any conversations we do have. I am keeping positive with him. But he IS using. He sometimes doesn’t come home for a few days, then maybe just for a few hours for laundry. He has dropped out of college, but works full time at a restaurant. The counseling is just starting, two sessions in, so do I give it more time before changing anything? Do I continue to give positive reinforcement to foster lower use? I am confused if I should keep the living arrangement as it is and look for wishes or dips, or push for something else. Also, is there hope for a recovery for him since it is meth? Thank you in advance for your guidance.
People absolutely do recover from meth!
Methamphetamine is a challenging drug to recover from but people absolutely do recover and go on to live healthy lives. You have but to look at David Sheff’s son to see the influence one former “meth head” can have, and to be in awe by how far Nick has come. Nick and his father’s writings have touched so many people in similar circumstances.
Depression with meth withdrawal is achingly slow to lift.
Your son is struggling and is being treated for depression. This isn’t surprising because depressed feelings accompany most (all?) drug withdrawals. The difference with meth is that the depression lifts so achingly slowly that it’s barely noticeable.
And the thing with depression is that it carries with it a unique, dominant belief: that is, the strong belief that things are hopeless.
William Styron, who wrote Sophie’s Choice, suffered from debilitating depression that came on when he quit alcohol in his 50’s. The New York Times calls the author of Darkness Visible “the Great God of Depression.” In his “memoir of madness”, he describes something unique to depression, in that with depression, the mind sees no end. Styron talks about being in Paris to accept a prize and seriously considering stepping off the curb into the traffic on the way to the ceremony.
In his now-famous NYT Op-Ed, where he outs himself as mentally ill, he describes one particular bout of depression with these words: “my nights were without sleep and my days were pervaded with a gray drizzle of unrelenting horror. This horror is virtually indescribable since it bears no relation to normal experience.”
Read my full response to jl5549 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-on-meth-but-doesnt-want-treatment
I have worked through the lectures and exercises, this has been so useful. I have also had a consultation with Pam Lanhart. There are a couple of things I think I KNOW I need to change but struggle with right now as I have got into a rut with my 16 yr old son who uses cannabis (illegal in this country, UK).
My sitution: During the first lockdown last May-June my son was in transition between secondary school and college. Exams got cancelled. He had not had a great time in secondary school – no friends. He had focused on his learning to distract him from those painful feelings, then exams got cancelled – he was very angry and sad. During the lockdown young people were mixing on the streets that were not mixing before, it could have been great and well it WAS for my son and still IS – or so he says. He discovered weed and a new circle of friends. His use soon escalated (at first I was not too worried) to him using it every day, I expressed my concern and suggested he speaks to drugs counsellor and GP. Reluctantly he did both. He interpreted the response as there not being a problem. I knew I had to accept he does not want to give up, but smoking in the flat was my boundary. When he kept violating it I said ‘one more time and I will call the police’, which eventually I did. This was the lowest point in our relationship. After that he – in his own words – had as little to do with me as he possibly could and also continued to smoke in our flat. He sustained not speaking to me at all for three weeks, despite just having started at a new school and ordinarily there would be a lot to talk about. I planned a holiday for us in Greece and I was glad he did not refuse to come. We argued one whole night but then we were okay, it seemed he could connect with the part of me that wasn’t all bad.
As I am a social worker I can lose my professional registration with illegal activity in my flat, it is also against my tenancy agreement. The smoking in the flat became such a focus for me, I lost sight of almost everything else. My son felt unwelcome at home and told me so, because we had constant arguments about weed. sometimes I would be calm reminding him of the house rule, sometimes not so calm, but I made it a rule for myself to never just let it go. Until … I came up with the idea to allow it once a week, recently, as a compromise, and asked him if he could live with that and keep to it. He said yes, but he hasn’t. Now I feel compromised He is not keeping to it and I carry the big risk of getting a conviction and losing my professional registration. I have told him all this but he can’t imagine that would ever happen, so in his mind I am overreacting and so he does not respect me saying those things. In light of the teachings here I can see that am actually rewarding his use at the moment. One big argument we had recently was when he said I was treating him differently when he is high, looking down on him, ridiculing him. That is never my intention. In light of the teachings here I notice that now I am SOOO intent on making sure I am NO different to him when he is high …. instead of withdrawing, removing rewards and connection. Another way I reward his use is that because I know that after he is high he wants sweet things, so I have a lot of sweet things in the house. Sometimes I even bring things to eat to him when he is in that state of constant hunger after having used cannabis. I have already been really annoyed about him keeping asking for food and THOUGHT of refusing to get him food when he is high, but I have not done it yet. So what am I afraid of? I am so conflicted because I have also learned that the opposite of addiction is connection. I fear (and this has happened for example after I called the police) that HE will disconnect from me if I reinstate my old rule of no weed in the flat (which I know is right), he will be around the corner at his friend’s the whole time (who is also his dealer, just a teen middle person) whose mother allows all the teens from our neighbourhood congregate in her house and smoke weed. With the best intentions as I also understand some other parents’ perspective: they would rather their child uses weed at home than out on the streets, some even say: I would rather you don’t use weed but if you do, ONLY do it at home. And I really think the opposite is right for me, but I worry so much about enforcing it. I am scared my son will disconnect from me altogether. Since we have had the new rule at least he is more open about this use, but the downside is that he thinks it is okay. For example he makes a joint, shows me how well it is made and wants me to praise him. It must be hard for him as so far I have always praised him a lot for everything that he does, but I haven’t praised him for THIS. He’s desperate that I do, he wants to show me cannabis related things all the time, tell me how wonderful it is.
Academically he is still doing well. I think it is because he was so far ahead before he started on the weed. His participation and homework has suffered, but it sadly seems that only the grades count, and his school haven’t noticed anyhting yet. Another thing I struggle with: speaking to school or not. I understand my son feels information about his weed use is ‘private’ but I want him to get some support through school though there is also a risk he could get expelled once they are more tuned into his use. I do talk about it all to those friends closest to me although he does not like it at all especially when it is other parents who he also knows. But he has had to accept this.
So in summary I know that the removing of rewards when he is using is the right thing to do but I struggle with it as I have been so intent on proving to him that I will treat him no different when he is high! Is there a way I can reinstate my boundary that will not be too much of a shock to him, that won’t result in him completely disengageing from me?
Thank you so much for all of the background information in your story. It helps me to direct you to some skills and strategies that I believe will contribute to the most immediate, positive progress with your situation.
I would first like to point to some of the very strong positives I noticed about your situation:
1) Clearly, you have a strong connection and good communication with your son. I know there have been times when you might not feel that’s the case, but the fact that your son consulted a counselor and general practitioner after you suggested it means that he does trust you and is open to your suggestions. The results may not have been what you wished for, but he still engaged with you, nonetheless.
2) He consulted a counselor and general practitioner and these professionals are now aware that there may be some struggles going on with him. (Oh and did I say, HE CONSULTED A COUNSELOR AND GENERAL PRACTITIONER?)
3) You’re focused on working on yourself to improve the situation. I know it may be very chaotic, but continuing to learn about, and practice all that you can, of the CRAFT method and the Allies eLearning modules, is going to help you have a positive impact and outcome.
4) You are already working on setting down healthy boundaries — kudos!
It makes sense to me that you would focus on boundaries around his smoking pot in your flat. The worries and concerns around losing your residence and your professional license are perfectly valid, as this is directly related to your ability to provide for both your son and yourself. This would drive any reasonable person to set down a similar boundary…..
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to WakingDance here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-know-i-should-remove-rewards-but-im-afraid-to-push-him-too-far-away
My 29 year old son has been sober since December 30th, 2020, and lives at home with me. Received 3 vivitrol shots, and just started taking antidepressants for his MDD with anxiety. It does not seem to be helping. His has totally withdrawn and is barely engaging with me (we live alone together) and I am not allowed to ask questions, or when I do, I get snippy answers. We have had several arguments and he recently accused me of texting about him to his sister, which wasn’t true. He will not get into talk therapy, or do IOP, so I had to give him a deadline of March 20th to get some help, or I will have to get some support to take my next steps and hold him accountable for his behaviors. We were very good friends before all of this, so part of me feels like I am being punished because he is uncomfortable, and part of me wants to believe he is doing this to be independent of me which he hasn’t been able to do for 10 years, secondary to his addiction. He has No job, no money, and no friends, so he sits at home everyday doing nothing but watching TV and looking at his computer. He will help me out if I asked, but usually forgets. HELP!! I want to scream at him to WAKE UP! His father (my x-husband) was very much like this as well, NO motivation at all, and we are estranged from him because I set boundaries when we found out he was cheating and no longer cared for the family, after 30 years of marriage. Any advice?
Your son has started working on his recovery, has been abstinent for 3 months, and is struggling terribly with motivation for anything in life. You’ve been setting out expectations for his behavior but he isn’t responding well, and this is not resulting in any improvement — in fact, communication problems are starting to deteriorate the relationship. You have the added experience of similar behavior with your ex (his father), which compounds problems and creates confusion around what is driving this current situation.
I hated when people told me to step back but now I see the gifts of taking a break from the chaos…
There are so many feelings, emotions and thoughts present, and I would encourage you to take a pause and work towards untangling the chaos, piece by piece. Taking a break to think about each separate part of the situation can give you a more logical, deliberate and directed plan to improve the situation.
What I’ve found on my journey with my son is that it’s very important to find all the positives I can in each situation. However, it can be extremely difficult to identify them with all of the mayhem created by my thoughts.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to klsochocki here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-been-abstinent-for-3-months-but-hes-not-doing-
I am feeling a bit stuck. I have changed my behavior toward my young son who has been using for quite some time. I fear that he is now into other things other than marijuana. I just want to be clear on how and when to approach his use? He is still in a stage where he is hiding it. He is not home often and I don’t see him very often. Sometimes I can tell when he is high and sometimes not. My question is do I wait until he’s ready for change or gives me the hint that he is? He seems like he is responding well to my neutral demeanour but there is still no signs that he wants to talk with me. Do I wait for this and just keep building the relationship? How long does this stage typically take? I have seen him in the past in active with withdrawal, money seeking, but it’s not all of the time. I feel like I am in the middle and watching him get worse yet there are more “red lights” than “green lights” right now and some days it’s hard to tell if he is sober. Thank you!
Hi. I’m really having problems knowing when my loved one is high. I’ve gone through module 3 and I’ve listened to the podcast about module 3. It’s all very helpful but I’m stumped. I feel like I’m doing things wrong in terms of the rewards. Sometimes it’s clear cut… he’s high, his eyes are red and he’s happy. Other times, he’s in a good mood and his eyes are not red. There is the time before he goes out to use that I’ve seen him happy and elated ( going to use), time when he appears to be craving (i.e. when he wakes up and is eager to leave), and then the time when he comes home after a day of being out with friends… he’s tired, wants to eat sweets, and doesn’t talk or make eye contact. This happened tonight. He came home with his girlfriend. Prepared himself some sweet snacks and didn’t talk to any of his family. His eyes were not red but my feeing is that he used earlier on today. He used to smoke weed but my feeling is that it is more now.
One more issue that I have is that my son rarely comes home at night without his girlfriend. She’s a nice girl and she never appears high but I believe that she is enabling him in terms of doing things for him and just plain mothers him. I’ve seen him in his craving stage verbally lash out at her and have melt downs. She leaves, they text and argue via phone, he uses, and then they are back together the same night. It’s so twisted. I feel it difficult to remove myself and rewards from him when he is high because she ends up rewarding him anyway. This is not intentional on her part but it’s defeating the purpose. Do I tell her about craft? She’s 17 and loyal to him too! I don’t even know if she realizes how much he uses.
I’m feeling very lost and his use is increasing.
A teenaged son who’s almost never home is very challenging. Your question is, when can you discuss his drug use?
You are correct to be focusing on your communication and improving your connection. The patterns between you are likely well established. You’re changing up your demeanor to be more neutral, and this is creating a noticeable change.
The more you use the communication skills from Module 4, the more sparks of positive talk/feelings you’ll experience between you. Perhaps your more neutral stance can include eliminating those pesky negative talking habits that slip out of our mouths, an easy place to start (Module 4, video 1 and Key Observations Exercise #14).
For instance, you may think that arguing with good logic and evidence, or pointing out where your Loved One’s future is headed should they continue down this “tragic road,” are important points that bear repeating, meanwhile…your Loved One has seen and heard this so many times before that the shut-off valve was kicked on at your first breath … he’s seen it all before: your stance, the timing, the look on your face …“That’s just mom hitting the ceiling…estimated time of completion: 1.5 min…hmm, I wonder what’s for dinner.”
Read my full response to Terrilyn here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-there-are-no-signs-that-he-wants-to-talk-to-me
Your son has started working on his recovery, has been abstinent for 3 months, and is struggling terribly with motivation for anything in life. You’ve been setting out expectations for his behavior but he isn’t responding well, and this is not resulting in any improvement — in fact, communication problems are starting to deteriorate the relationship. You have the added experience of similar behavior with your ex (his father), which compounds problems and creates confusion around what is driving this current situation.
I hated when people told me to step back but now I see the gifts of taking a break from the chaos…
There are so many feelings, emotions and thoughts present, and I would encourage you to take a pause and work towards untangling the chaos, piece by piece. Taking a break to think about each separate part of the situation can give you a more logical, deliberate and directed plan to improve the situation.
What I’ve found on my journey with my son is that it’s very important to find all the positives I can in each situation. However, it can be extremely difficult to identify them with all of the mayhem created by my thoughts.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to klsochocki here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-been-abstinent-for-3-months-but-hes-not-doing-
My husband who has a high functioning addiction to alcohol is now drinking with our 20-year-old daughter. I don’t know how to talk with him anymore. I don’t know what to say to her. I feel sick. Help, please.
Welcome to the site. The only thing harder than having a Loved One with addiction is having two Loved Ones with addiction. We have our share of members on this site for whom this is the case. Some of us have adult children with SUD, who are themselves involved with someone who is also active in addiction. Please see our posts tagged “partner also uses.” In your case, it’s your husband and daughter.
At 20 years of age, your daughter may well be on her way to an alcohol addiction. She may already fit the diagnosis of SUD. Or neither. Perhaps she just enjoys your husband’s friendlier mood when he’s drinking and, well, having a drink in your home is something that’s normalized, so she has one or two with him.
Step 1: Slow down the spinning in your head. Practice breathing, and back away from feeling overwhelmed. Watch Module 7 for an insight or two into what’s happening when our minds spin out of control, toward negative feelings/patterns.
Step 2: …
Read our full response to rae here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-husband-is-now-drinking-with-our-daughter-i-fee
My husband has an alcohol use disorder. We are both members of Smart Recovery. He goes to recovery meetings and I attend Family and Friends. He recently had almost 5 months sobriety and he lapsed. Then he lapsed again last night. He attends 1 meeting a week and sees a therapist. He finally acknowledged that he needs more help. He has decided to go to two meetings a week. I think all of this is good, but I wonder if there isn’t an outpatient program that might not give some more help. That being said what are some steps I can take to give him support. Also, what things might he do to develop more coping strategies.
Thanks for writing in, loisgh. I’m sure this most recent relapse (and series of relapses) is hard for you, and for your husband. It is really encouraging that he’s already at a level of acknowledgement of his struggles that he is doing regular therapy and support groups. It is beautiful that you are on this site, and seeking to give him more support.
Our program is based on the teachings of CRAFT, developed for just that: guiding the family member/spouse/etc to be an ally to their Loved One with substance issues. You will find all of the basic tenets, with excellent examples, in the eLearning Center. We have created 8 video modules (also available in ebook format) with 21 accompanying exercises. The answers to your question are in the modules. Each family must adapt CRAFT to their particulars, and to the relationship you have with your Loved One.
Getting CRAFT under your belt is a process and does take a bit of time, but the modules themselves take but a couple of hours to watch through once. Once you have begun practicing the basics of CRAFT (natural consequences, adding rewards or removing rewards, and using some of the communication techniques…) please write in again as needed.
This Discussion Blog is available to you at any time for help with what you’re putting in place. Module 8 will also give you some guidance on the best way to propose additional treatment supports (when, how…).
Wishing you all the best.
HI – we’ve found Allies in Recovery very helpful. We are based in the UK and our son (now 34) lives in supported housing a few hours drive away from us. He has had major anxiety problems all his life and has dealt with it initially with cannabis but over the past 14 years now with drinking, typically a binge pattern. He shows no interest in recovery although he spent several months in rehab in South Africa about 9 years ago and did well. Within a couple of months of his return he was drinking again.
My question is about AlAnon which I’ve attended now for about 5 years and the difference between this and Allies in Recovery. We have a very caring AlAnon group with fantastic support and a great level of honesty. I work with the principles of loving detachment etc but it would seem to be the case that Allies in Recovery takes a more proactive approach. We certainly try to maintain contact with our son and reward when he is in a good place with more contact and withdraw if he is clearly drinking (although this is harder to know from a distance). He knows we would support him with a rehab place etc but only when he is choosing to do this.
But AlA seems to take a slightly more ‘tough love’ approach which I struggle with, despite knowing that the only person who can make the decision to embrace recovery is our son.
I’d welcome any thoughts on this. Thank you Miriam
Hello Jones: We will address your more specific concerns in a blog post, but for now may I suggest a few existing posts about this very topic under the tag to the right called “Alanon.”
Please give us 5-7 days to answer your question.
BTW: Alanon was created by wives. CRAFT was created by a son for his mother who struggled with her husband’s alcoholism, so CRAFT was also initially designed for wives.
Parents sometimes struggle with the message of Alanon, with its lack of action steps that might advance the situation in the right direction. CRAFT has definitely taken off with parents, who want and need the situation to change for everyone, not just the “wife.” CRAFT considers your influence to affect change in your loved one with addiction. CRAFT is all about action steps and a sound psychological theory that goes far in knowing what you’re seeing and what to do about it.
Very helpful, thank you and I have now listened to the recommended podcast which clarifies some of the differences. Do you know whether there are CRAFT groups available in the UK as I hadn’t come across these when we were looking for support>
Thanks again
Hello Jones in the UK. Our support meetings are now online, though you’d have to be keeping late hours to participate from the UK. We’d love to help start a REST meeting or two for your time zone. Together with our REST partner, we train facilitators in CRAFT and facilitation. THere is a free training for anyone interested in starting a REST group next week.
CRAFT done with fidelity to the model continues to be a little known jewel. AiR “kicks Arse.” cheers Dominique
Hi and thank you Jones for your comments. Please let us know if you still have questions about the differences between the CRAFT approach and that of Al-anon. I’m glad that you took the time to listen to the podcast and read the article we published on this topic. All our best.
Hello. First I would like to say thank you for this wonderful resource. Your site has been a great help and comfort to me already.
My question is this: Is drug court considered treatment? My daughter is 34 years old and has been using illegal opioids for the past 12-13 years. She is currently on probation for the third time, having already served time in prison for drug related crimes. She was recently sentenced to drug court for the first time and, from what I understand, will meet regularly with her counselor, probation officer, public defender and the judge. I’m hopeful that this team will be able to help her make some positive changes.
My daughter has been very co-operative and, dare I say, even enthusiastic about some of the opportunities this program offers.
I’m not sure whether I should still try to encourage her to get into a residential treatment program or just be content that she’s responding well to drug court.
Wow! It sounds like your daughter has a renewed sense of determination to work on her substance use. That she is focused, and seems to have a positive attitude towards any programs or requirements that the courts expect her to fulfill, is very encouraging.
I would encourage you to 1) continue providing support for any/all of her attempts at compliance, while at the same time 2) give her some space to still struggle and learn what is going to work for her. This can help direct her and help her acquire a strong foundation in her recovery.
To answer your question, “Is drug court treatment?”, no it does not replace actual treatment. But drug court can provide invaluable encouragement, incentives and motivation to support her towards a better life path. It provides her a structure where she has to meet with counselors, her probation officer, the public defender and the judge — which can keep her working on accountability and encourage her to carefully consider future decisions.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to LauraW here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-drug-court-considered-treatment
We have a daughter who has severe general and social anxiety. She has been using marijuana and alcohol for four years now so that she can be “normal” with her friends. But, the anxiety is so bad that she doesn’t work and doesn’t go to college. She has started to realize that the world around her is changing, her friends are moving on and she doesn’t know how to deal with it. She lives with us and we have learned to accept that we can’t change her but we do try to lovingly tell her that she needs to recognize that the pot and alcohol are making matters worse. We try to encourage her to get help, but the problem is that she is therapy resistant. She can’t/won’t talk to anyone about what’s going on in her head. She says that she doesn’t know how to tell them and that nobody is listening to her.
Her car was her one connection to her social life. Months ago we told her that it needed service work and that if she didn’t take care of it soon that it would at some point stop working. Well, that day has arrived and she is despondent. She would not even go with me to get it towed to a shop. She has no coping skills to handle anything difficult so she turns to pot and alcohol to numb the feelings.
She earns money by selling pot and some other way that we are privy to the details, but I’m guessing that it’s not something that we would support because she will not tell us about it. I can tell that money goes into her bank account, but it’s not regular. Any money that goes in ends up going right out to drugs and alcohol. We tried to encourage her to save some of that money, put it aside to pay for the car. She could not even save up $100 to pay for car repairs. It’s as though she is afraid to not have enough to pay for the things that keep her happy. She puts on a happy, brave face for the friends and then tortures herself at home when she is alone with her thoughts.
So, I’m writing because we are scared that she is so desperate and so beyond lost that she doesn’t know where to start. But, she doesn’t want to talk to anyone who can offer her help. She tried a therapist yesterday and lasted only 7 minutes on the phone because she didn’t like the questions he asked, she told him that she didn’t know what was wrong with her and he said that she has “no coping skills”. That didn’t help her already stressful situation.
We know that she needs help, but she will not respond to gentle suggestions, threats or interventions. Every time someone tries to break through she takes it as a personal affront and reels back and lashes out. We just don’t know what to do or where to go from here. Any insight would be so much appreciated. We are lost and feeling so helpless.
What is excruciating about anxiety is the more it stops you from doing things, the greater the number of things that stop you, until even the smallest minutia of daily life become insurmountable, panic-producing challenges.
Your daughter is seeing her friends go out into the world while she stays behind. Her social anxiety makes it impossible to handle school or working, though jobs exist that demand little social interaction and online college has become a viable option, especially with the pandemic. Your daughter “copes” with her anxiety by smoking cannabis and drinking and hiding out in your family home.
For those who may not know, SAD (for once an acronym that lines up), Social Anxiety Disorder, is more common among those who drink or use drugs.
Read my full response to pchalmers here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-self-medicates-for-social-anxiety-and-refuses
Our son is struggling with opioids, even though he has giving up his stash willingly and says he wants to detox, he wants to do it at home with a follow up plan of using low dose magic mushrooms to get his mind straight. We have advised we don’t support this plan and would prefer he go to a detox clinic with a follow up to rehab. So far we have been unable to find placement in a detox and he has started the process here at home, how on earth do we help him through this and how long will it last.
Thank you for this question, Xray. You have been put in a difficult, but potentially hopeful, position of helping your son withdraw from opioids at home.
His chosen course of action is to micro-dose (low dose) on psilocibin mushrooms. If you search on using mushrooms or other “plant-based” drugs for opioid withdrawal, you’ll see that Ibogaine is another natural substance that is being used for opioid withdrawals.
We have written other posts on the topic of detoxing at home, which could be helpful to you (see topic: detoxing). One thing that stands out from my learnings working in a jail environment is that young people may look better and feel less awful while withdrawing from opioids than their older counterparts. This leads to the danger of serious life-threatening dehydration. One jail medical director I heard speak at a conference supplies Gatorade on demand throughout his jail.
Read my full response to Xray here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-on-earth-can-we-support-him-detoxing-at-home
I’ve been living with my s.o. X2 years. To me alcohol has become a problem. While dating we both drank alcohol. But, on more than one occasion when I called her to talk she was too drunk to hold a meaningful conversation. She was living alone. This was a red flag for me. She denied having alcohol problems at the time. She did not start drinking until she was in her 40’s being raised in a strict Christian environment where alcohol was forbidden. Now, while she does not drink everyday and can go a month without it, she has been sneaking her drinks alone or when I’m not ‘paying attention’’. She has been drunk while cooking – she likes her wine while cooking. Her personality changes, slurs her words so it’s obvious. She has become deceptive with it and blames me because I get mad/disappointed. There’s no abuse or violence but disappointment and hurt. I was raised around alcohol and know what a problem it can be down the road and if this is not nipped in the bud. While not a daily occurrence it’s enough to create a problem. I do not want to control her or her feel she is being controlled. She is still in some denial because she doesn’t do it ‘all the time’. When does a person drinking alcohol become an “ alcoholic” or have AUD? Thanks.
Excellent question: when does drinking become “alcoholic” drinking. You will find many answers to this question in the popular and academic literature. The most telling behavior is not how much or how often your girlfriend takes a drink, it is the fact that she is seeking and sneaking her alcohol. Also notable is that you see an emerging personality — that is, your girlfriend under the influence.
Over 90% of addiction starts in the teen-age years (ref). This makes your Loved One an outlier. Perhaps she has used other things throughout her life as “objects” of use, like food or shopping before discovering alcohol in her 40’s (maybe not).
I can see why you’d be confused, though. The rigidity of orthodox upbringings could make someone behaving outside an extremely narrow set of cultural boundaries and rules turn quickly to sneaking, perhaps like a woman who drinks a bit much.
Read my full response to RCAVictor here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-sneaking-drinks-and-claims-theres-no-problem
Thank you in advance for any advice you can give here:
My son and his GF live in another state and say they are doing “fairly well” with sobriety (we have not asked he just volunteered that info). We suspect they are using. He has had little contact with us and is living on unemployment in an extended stay hotel. When we do hear from him he mentions how tight money is and that they’d love to come home for a “visit” and to save money for an apartment. (They had a chunk of money a few months ago from the sale of his car and don’t think any attempts were made to get into a more stable living arrangement). We are worried once they come they may never leave! His GF has some mental health issues more severe than he does and we have never met) We are not up for drama and using, etc in our home and are worried that may happen if we allow them home. Not sure how to support them and yet set boundaries. Thanks for listening.
Couples who use together are very challenging. Your son and his girlfriend are living in poverty, in temporary housing. The money they are able to scrape together goes towards alcohol and drugs. A glimpse into a relationship steeped in substances includes fights over how money is spent, holding out alcohol or drugs on the other, broken abstinence deals with one relapsing and pulling down the other, feelings of betrayal.
Despite terrible dysfunction, your son and girlfriend will hold to each other tight. They are “it” for each other.
I wouldn’t think you want this under your roof. Your son wants to come home (with his girlfriend who’s probably actively using and has untreated (?) severe mental health issues) to save money for an apartment. Wrong reason. He is likely minimizing the alcohol use, and I would guess some drug use.
Read my full response to Kim here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-afraid-if-they-come-to-visit-theyll-never-leave
Time Sensitive–Our adult son enters a 3 day medical detox today for alcohol and RX drugs. His wife is no longer sympathetic or supportive of his effort and has told us she may ask him to leave their home. An emotional crisis and a blowup involving us going to their house to intervene recently brought us to the realization at just how serious his addiction is, and we are new here on this site. He is at a turning point and we want to support him in every way we can. We have told our daughter-in-law that we are seeking help for ourselves in coping and in doing all we can to help him. She has voiced her discouragement and said that she is done. We’re not sure whether to suggest this program to her, or to just stay with it ourselves. Although our son came to the decision to detox on his own, we know already that what we’ve learned in a short time here likely helped him lead to his decision. He does not want to lose his family, and we want to offer all the support we can, but we’re not sure whether to involve her at this point. We have not told him about joining Allies in Recovery, as we don’t want him to feel he is being manipulated as he is distrusting of “Psychology.”
Hello Bubble&Squeak: We will provide you with a fuller answer, but as this is time sensitive, I would encourage you to figure out next treatment steps post detox for your son right away. If his wife needs a break and their relationship is in danger, perhaps going home after detox is not possible. Finding longer inpatient treatment is not easy. Rx drugs? opioids? Your son is at the start of a long process. Let’s get him to the next best place.
Thanks for your quick reply. I’m not sure I said anything about opioids, but the RX drugs definitely are a factor. We believe he is in good hands for now, and that the professionals there will be able to advise him as to his next best steps. We have our initial phone call with Allies this Thursday morning, the first we could get, which I believe is the day he will be released. We’ll continue to use the website. If you can steer us to any particularly helpful content, that would be great.
Hi. My husband is in recovery for Alcohol and mixing pills. He also attempted suicide. I have started to talk with a therapist (she gave me this website) but I am hoping that I can find something more geared towards my issues rather than a parent/child.
Wishing for a healthy tomorrow
Thank you
Thank you so much for writing in with this important question. Wonderful to hear that your husband is currently in recovery! And I’m thrilled that your therapist told you about the Allies member site. I believe you will find much of value here.
The Allies in Recovery member site was designed to teach CRAFT to anyone who can use it: parents, partners, aunts & uncles, grandparents, adult children of, siblings of, as well as professionals working with families.
I hear you that you feel the material may be swayed a bit towards parent-child situations. I’ll be perfectly honest with you and tell you that we did get a few comments to this effect, several years back.
Read my full response to girlie780 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-this-site-is-mostly-for-parents-right
My 34 year old son is an alcoholic combined with a Sud using cocaine. He has never allowed psychiatric treatment but anxiety, depression and ptsd are a good guess. He is extremely resistant to allowing help in and blames me for a lot. He has been on and off to meetings and treatment.
Over the last 15 years I have probably been enabling. I’ve paid for lawyers, coerced him to enter rehabs, paid his bills, helped with college, bailed him out of jail, bought vehicles etc. all with the intention of getting him on the right path.
Recently last April he managed to graduate from college with his degree. He moved into a great neighborhood rental near his sister who tried to be of support. Got a new job in his degree area, got a kitten and a loan for a nice newer car. I wasn’t far away for support. 3 days after he got the job he took his car and a duffel bag and left everything behind. We didn’t hear from him for weeks.
I then got a call from him last November from emergency room. He was beaten up with slight concussion and contusions and black eyes. His newer car was impounded. Evidently he was living in a garage in the inner city.
We went to the hospital. They were going to discharge him even though he could barely walk. He was very hostile to everyone. We took him home with caveat he would go to rehab. Long and short of this he talked me into taking him back to get his belongings in the inner city …he never came back though I waited four hours in a parking lot. He had no phone no job no money no ID and no car and just the clothes in his back.
The next day he called from jail and was arrested for larceny. We didn’t automatically bail him out but insisted a rehab or program be set up and he would go before we could bail him out. It took a month before anyplace could get him in. He was very angry at me for letting him sit in jail that long for such a small bail.
We managed to get him into a sober living home. I paid for first month and then the plan was residents were supposed to get a job and pay from there. The counselor there said he was rude uncooperative not participating and after 30 days released him and dropped him at a shelter.
He called from the shelter and I gave him phone numbers for area help centers and rehabs I didn’t give him money.
My question is … he has no money, car, no job, no place to live or phone but I think he somehow accessed his email at times.
It’s cold out everyone says to let him deal with this on his own but he has nothing. Should I just leave him to his own devices or email him my concern. My husband says no it will only open the door to manipulate me again and he needs to deal with the consequences of his actions. Your thoughts?
Isabel said I should post this as it may be helpful to the person who is working on my first post
I’m very sorry for my impatience and yes I know you’re inundated it’s just that I don’t know what to do and feel helpless and don’t want to do the wrong thing.
I’m being told I have to cut off all monetary support and communication to him in order for him to see and take responsibility for where he has landed. Only maybe then will he seek help on his own. Up to now he is resistant to help , hostile and now shut off all ties to his sister me and all family
If I contact him – and I don’t know where he is- but I’m guessing he can access his email from the library -they tell me at this point he will see it as an opportunity to manipulate me again as for 15 years I pretty much bailed him out of his troubles. So after a month in jail I did bail him out only if he would agreed to go to treatment. The only thing available was a sober living home that I paid the first month for. On day 30 he was kicked out and dropped in at a shelter. He called me using someone’s phone wanting help. I told him the only thing I could do is help him to get treatment I couldn’t give any money as he was kicked out from the sober living home. We gave him phone numbers where he could get help. I know he’s angry with me for not helping with money and said I reneged on our promise to pay court ordered restitution but that was only on condition of him being in some sort of program .I haven’t heard from him for 3 weeks now and worry so. This however isn’t the only time he’s gone “dark” however. The last time in November it was weeks he was incommunicado and called from emergency room after being beaten up And car being impounded. He has nothing.
Do I try to help? Or communicate by email?
Thank you!
Jeanne
Oh MY GOSH! I’m impressed!
You are pros. You have done so many things well over the years, including getting very smart about the jail system and leaving him there by not paying bail, while you found a sober living place for him!
No pit-stops. This is an important rule of thumb. Each pit-stop represents an opportunity for relapse.
Thanks to you, we are all a little smarter about the reason we talk about avoiding pit-stops, on the way to, or in between, treatments (see Module 8, Segment 5, Unpacking the World of Treatment).
Read my full response to piercej here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-may-be-near-rock-bottom-do-we-leave-him-in-this
Thank you for very valuable documents and modules in your presentations as I found this helpful trying to deal and live with my son and his substance abuse problems. We have had him in various inpatient programs resulting in dismissal and some follow up treatments. He has also participated moderately in outpatient therapy however does not believe or seem that is of any use and can quit on his own, which has not been the situation. We are struggling as a family living with him on these conditions and find that forceful and aggressive threats to get help only makes things worse for him and all living with him. So we are trying the approach indicated by Allies and perhaps see positive results. He has been speaking with a therapists and recommendation to then consult a psychiatrist for a couple screening and evaluation, hopefully this will take place however he must want the help and the more we insist he does not sure he will follow up with it. We brought up outpatient again he is combative and will not participate. He is more comfortable speaking one on one. He struggles and then uses when there are anxiety, holidays, friends , girlfriends, well now X girl after many instances with his behavior past several months .
Thank you any advice would be appreciated as my wife and I are trying to be on same page as this has been now past 3 years of a roller coaster lifestyle and unstable in our home as far as who our son is on a daily basis.
Thanks so much for writing in, exposing your situation, and asking for guidance.
We’re thrilled you’ve found Allies in Recovery, and it sounds like you and your wife share a really beautiful goal: getting on the same page in order to help your son. Being able to unite and share an approach will certainly be a huge step in the right direction.
Reading your comment, we noticed that you’ve already figured out quite a lot of important things about what works vs. what doesn’t, and what your son is willing to consider, vs. what he isn’t. This is great!! However, your son’s use is increasing, perhaps due to the recent breakup.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to rdeleonardis here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-were-fed-up-with-the-rollercoaster
Please help me with the correct words to have him seek a psychiatric evaluation for bipolar to help understand the underlying issue of substance abuse. If he could be under a doctor’s care with prescribed meds that he can personally handle it could help his situation when he spirals downward again. This has been a vicious cycle since he returned home from college in 2017. It is tearing me apart. It has affected all of his employment opportunities and now he is losing friends as well as his girlfriend. HELP. I am dying inside. I am NOT suicidal, just distraught as his father, brother, and sisters are as well. Please HELP!
Welcome and thank you for your question. I will give you the words below. First, though, allow me to point out a few things that may help you and others reading this post.
A psychiatric visit for untreated bipolar illness is indeed one important avenue to go down to help your son. Does he show less resistance to having his mental health treated than his drug use? Is this the reason to start with a psychiatrist? Or, are you thinking that taking a pill safely could help dampen his addiction to drugs? If you had to guess, what might your son be willing to consider in terms of help?
Families often tell me, “nope, tried that, he’s not interested in doing anything!”
The family sees 100% resistance.
Read my full response to dlisa0829 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-to-make-your-request-that-they-seek-help
I would like to know more about Reflective Listening (i.e. specific examples of how to use this skill).
Blackdog17,
Thank you for pointing out the need on our site for more examples and learnings around Reflective Listening.
Your comment has inspired our team to record a podcast, in which we will delve deeper into the subject and make sure to include plenty of examples.
Stay tuned, we’ll keep you posted!
Best,
the Allies team
Good news, Blackdog17! Our podcast dream team (I am not including myself in that label, though I was fortunate to participate) has recorded a podcast, sparked by your question. It is ready to be listened to, you can find it here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/podcast_coming_up_for_air-podcast-69-youre-gonna-be-lousy-at-it-at-first-ref
Thanks again for your great comment.
I feel like we have hit a wall and are in a cycle that no one knows how to get out of. Our 29-year-old son struggles with substance use. He was introduced to opioids in college and since he graduated, it is apparent that he has co-occurring issues that are also impacting his life. After college (before we knew of his SUD), he was diagnosed with ADD, but I think he actually struggles more with depression and anxiety.
His SUD became apparent to us when he moved home after living with his then GF for almost a year. He has a BS in Business Management, but has been unable to hold even a part-time entry level job. Whenever he has access to money and/or a car, he spends everything he has on drugs. When he is clean, he expresses hopes and dreams for the future, but struggles with getting help and moving forward. He won’t get counseling because he can’t see anyone in person right now (during COVID) and would have to meet at the house via Zoom. He feels like we would eavesdrop on his meetings (which is not true). I’ve explained that because he is an adult, we can’t make him do anything, but I will help him and support him along the way. He feels like we are holding him hostage because we won’t give him money or transportation. Right now, he is living with us. He sleeps most of the day and watches TV or plays video games most of the night.
He and I had a blow up today. I could see his frustration building – the holidays are the worst, but I didn’t expect it to go downhill so fast. I am at my wits’ end and I don’t know what else to do. Any suggestions on how to move forward would be much appreciated.
The first goal for your family is to engage your son into medication-assisted treatment (MAT). Buprenorphine, for example, can quickly cut your son’s opioid urges; it is a first line of defense as it reduces the risk of overdose death by 50%.
There is a lot to say, but for now consider a one-off talk with your son about MAT treatment, regardless of whether or not he has tried or refused MAT in the past.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to HLFrancis here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-in-the-basement-were-stuck-in-a-bad-pattern
My adult granddaughter who I raised and has lived with me for the last 2 yrs, is returning from voluntary rehab this week. I occasionally have a drink in the evenings. Do I need to cease that activity and remove all alcohol from my home? Or is it ok for me to have an occasional drink?
It may be hard on your granddaughter to watch you have an occasional drink. It may eat at her that there is liquor in the house. Can you remove the liquor and not drink around your granddaughter? It would also be wise to remove anything from your pill cabinet that could also be misused. You do this to support your granddaughter’s fragile abstinence. It’s not meant as a punishment. Good luck having her home.
Thanks! That was my instinct, but I appreciate the reinforcement.
Hello, This is my first time posting. I have started the Modules and I finding some good resources for communicating in person, but not sure how to communicate best over text message with my mother, who has been struggling with alcohol abuse for at least 3 decades (since my first/biological father got sick when I was 5 years old). We live an hour apart, and I was suppose to be with her over Christmas, but after some very frustrating therapy sessions with her, I’ve decided that I need to stay in my own home, with my husband over the holiday, in order to recover and take care of myself. I told her this over the phone, she said “I’ll be sad, but ok.”
Since then she has been sending many text messages pleaded us to come. I keep responding along the lines of “I love you. I am feeling emotionally depleted and I need to take care of myself… I’ll be in touch when I am more emotionally stable/have found an individual therapist.” I’m not sure if this is the best way to respond?
I’m trying to acknowledge her pain while also stating my own, along with my boundaries.
Boundaries are something I am trying to get better at, especially with my mother. I am generally very accommodating, good at holding my tongue and it can quickly get to the point where I am not taking care of myself. In a most recent case (this week), I had an anger explosions that reminded me of my mother, except that I was sober and self-harming (biting myself). I was screaming at my husband, the person I thought would never leave me, who then for the first time ever he said he wanted a divorce. We were able to work through it (thank god), but one of the stipulations was figuring out how to distance myself from the toxic relationship with my mother.
More background on my mother:
She is drunk most nights (can easily drink a bottle of wine over the course of dinner) and I am especially worried about her being home alone since my step dad died in Sept. For years I have been trying different non-confrontational strategies to ask her to get a therapist. She has refused until recently, when she agreed to a therapist with me to discuss the grief of my step father’s passing (a man I consider my father and who I truly love. He was very kind and very non-confrontational, to the point where he knew she had a serious problem, and it was diminishing their network of close friends, deeply harming the relationships in our family, esp. with my step siblings/his biological kids, but he would not talk to her about it. Well, actually he talked to her about it once, which ended with an anger explosion on her part, so he never mentioned it again). I can’t help to think that my mom’s drinking issues have had some influence on my step-sister (6 years older than me) who has within the past week has gotten out of a 28 day rehab program for alcohol use.
While the drinking is a huge problem, it’s also a symptom of deeper rooted problems. My maternal grandmother (who died before I was born) was apparently a very emotional cruel woman (not sure if she struggled with substance abuse) who my mom still shudders to think about (her younger brother died by suicide, my mom says its because her mother drove him to it with her emotional abuse).
I’ve been doing a lot of reading on Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), and my mom’s background and behaviors line up with many of the symptoms including:
1) Mom talks over me/others & makes it difficult to jump into a conversation
2) Mom doesn’t take responsibility for her actions/blames others for (in)actions.
3) Mom pushes her preferences on me/others …assumes whatever she wants is what others want, even when they say they don’t
4) Mom very opinionated while being hypersensitive to feedback
5) Mom requires a huge amount of attention, holds grudges against those who don’t give it to her
6) Mom gets drunk regularly, making everything above worse
She treats me as “the Golden Child” or extension of herself (according to NPD literature) – she is very supportive of me in so many ways, awesome in a crisis, an amazing writer, and not happy when you even hint at anything she does that upsets you. For example, I have asked her repeatedly not to talk to me about her harsh judgements of my two oldest steps siblings ( 8 and 15 years older than me – the “Scapegoats”, according to NPD literature)- but she continues to do so, even after I’ve told her kindly, firmly, assertively and explicitly, in and our of therapy, not to. Interestingly, my step sister (6 years older) closest in age to me is much more “accommodating”/has less firm boundaries with my mom (just like me) and she is the one who has ended up in rehab, while the older two have much more “together” lives.
Two weeks ago I haphazardly brought up my mother’s drinking in rehab – I did not mean too, but the conversation, led by her, took a turn which I wasn’t prepared for where I ended up telling her in a passive and confused way that I was worried about her drinking. I was not being aggressive, but also not being clear and the therapist who specializes in geriatrics/grief was not prepared for this conversation. In the end we decided we needed to regroup, come up with new treatment goals, and decide whether to continue as “couples therapy” or if my mom should continue as an individual patient and I should find another therapist.
These were the goals that I brought to the next therapy session:
– I want to learn how to better communicate with you
– And how to appreciate our different styles of communication from the introverted to the extroverted perspectives
And learn when & how to meet in the middle
– For me, as someone who can be nervous and passive in my communication
I want to use this as an opportunity to work on being assertive without being aggressive
Especially when it comes to disagreements or other emotionally charged issues
– I’d love to read the book “Quiet” with you – a fun an production activity that could be a good backdrop to our communication goals
She said she did not want to talk about communication with me, and instead moved on to how much I have hurt her with my actions – how she has been on eggshells for two weeks because of me.
From the outside looking in, I handled the session well – I was very prepared, I said and did the “right things,” I stayed calm, didn’t take “bait” to get into circular arguments, I only mentioned communication in my goals, nothing about alcohol, when prompted I apologized and took responsibility for the bad meeting we had two weeks ago where I haphazardly told my mom I was frustrated and worried about her drinking as well as apologizing for other things I had brought up that she was angry about.
From the inside, it felt awful – I think my mom may truly have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I felt trapped by her manipulative gaslighting techniques that I don’t think she even really completely understands what she’s doing. From what I can deduce, there is something very rotten/painful at her core and she will do anything to deflect attention from looking inward — she will latch onto any scapegoat, footnote or other external thing she can blame to deflect any criticism (even the most constructive/thoughtful/minor) of her behavior. She is extremely smart and has an excellent (selective) memory for details that she uses to lash back and make you doubt yourself- even weeks later, months and sometimes years later.
I was so hopeful when we started therapy – we came looking like a team, bound by our grief for my step dad and I prayed that energy could carry us through, but by the end our relationship was revealed for what it is – broken (a word the therapist used). The gaslighting is constant – any concerns I bring up with our communication end up coming back to me immediately or later with a story about how it is my fault – and an indication that this will be held against me indefinitely.
I feel trapped – and the only way I know how to survive is to apologize over and over again, knowing I will never truly be forgiven and that my pain when it comes to her actions will never be considered as real as hers. But at least the wrath will be less with apology. I will pay for two weeks of eggshells she’s experienced for the rest of my life, while the three decades of eggshells I have been walking on will never be acknowledged except as a tool to make me feel more guilty. It’s a maddening game of second guessing that is taking its toll on my mental and physical health.
Whew – well this post is much longer than I thought it would be when I first sat down to write it. Thank you for being a space for me to let this out. In the end, the questions that brought me here were:
1) how should I respond to my mom’s continued text messages (laced with guilt trips, tho not explicitly so) pleading my husband and I to come for Christmas
2) Am I doing the right thing by not going? (This is the first time in my life – 35 years – that I won’t spend Christmas with her)
3) Do you think there is a possibility that someone with alcohol use disorder in combo with NPD can ever change? I know you are suppose to focus on yourself and know that you can’t change anyone else, but how do you do that without it hurting so much?
Dear Briar: We are so glad you wrote in. You wrote extensively about the continuing difficulty with your mom who has been drinking alcoholically since you were a child. Your description takes us into the confusing and painful world of that child and describes how your mom’s drinking continues to play such a large role in your adult life.
Adult children of alcoholics (ACOA) have been addressed a lot in the popular literature, with much of it focused on an observable cluster of effects on the individual as a child (see this article files/allies_in_recovery_brochure.pdf). Your story describes how your mom acts now … we can appreciate that experiencing the same behaviors as a five year-old must have been even more hurtful and disconcerting.
See Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-alcoholic-mother-me
I fall apart each time just in anticipation of a relapse. Things trigger me into anxiety.
When this happens all the tools I have read or learnt seem to desert me. I am then unable to sleep or function normally.
What can I do? I need some advice.
Oh boy, have you hit on the million-dollar question!
Addiction in the family —> emotional turmoil —> irrational behaviors
On my journey I’ve found that the angst and emotional turmoil triggered in us by the possibility of a relapse, is overwhelming and all-consuming. The stomach-churning dread and fear that would well up inside of me launched me into really irrational behaviors.
I came to understand, in part by following the Learning Modules on this site, that these behaviors actually served no useful purpose and were actually pushing my Loved One closer to the edge of relapse, while bringing me much farther into feeling unwell, both physically and mentally. I am very sure that most of the members here at Allies can understand and attest to how debilitating this cycle can be.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to lucien here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-do-i-handle-my-fear-of-relapse-the-million-dol
I knew today, something was not right. I couldn’t shake the uneasy feeling. Most times, when I have this feeling, it is related to my older brother. I got the call from his ex wife…He is in jail. Now what? He lives 2 hrs away from me. He has recently been avoiding me more and more. I have had the feeling in my gut he was back to using meth. However, his distance and lack of communication have made it hard to use the CRAFT method. I have tried to stay positive and take care of myself. We were preparing for having him here for Christmas with his 15-year-old daughter. Now, likely not going to happen. He was arrested in another state for dealing drugs and driving under the influence. He did admit to his ex that he has been back to using meth for a few months. We don’t yet know the actual charges, but there is bail needed to get him out. We do not have the money and are uncertain how much.
Several problems- how do I tell my mom who is in her late 70s and planning to see him this weekend? When do I tell her? We talk often about my brother and I don’t want to keep secrets. How do I help him? I am already finding myself searching court records, arrest records and trying to find his exact charges. I know this isn’t healthy, but…Now, my adult girls and teenage son, along with his 15 year old daughter are going to be dealing with the worry and unknowns.
I am grateful that he felt safe enough to call his ex. I told her to tell him she told me what happened and that I love him and am still here for him. I am scared for him and can’t imagine the fears he has. 4 years ago he was a teacher for elementary kids. Meth takes your life so quick. How do I help him, his daughter, his ex, his mom and my family? Uncertain if he will make bail in time for Christmas…I’m no longer feeling anger and resentment towards him…love and fear.
Your brother is now in jail, due to his addiction to methamphetamine. The specifics matter less — the charges, the bail; the bottom line is he is going to sit in jail through the holidays and the reason is addiction.
I am sorry for him and for your poor family, especially his teenage daughter, who may not understand the depths of his illness. Having a father who is absent and appears to prefer drugs over you, is likely very hard on her. If I recall correctly, she is already seeing a therapist. Good. That is indeed crucial for her well-being.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to $ister4 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-may-be-spending-the-holiday-in-jail-should-i-ba
I’m not sure if this is the right place for this question. I am struggling with a boundary with my Loved One. He has a tenant who smokes in his room and my loved one is already aware that smoking indoors is an issue for me. I am no longer living there but visit once or twice a week. I am careful to not anger my Loved One by asking for too much especially currently while he is experiencing multiple losses in his family. Thank you!
Thanks for writing in, colliefreak!
While this question is not really about CRAFT (our area of expertise) because it’s not directly about your Loved One’s use or non-use, we are convinced that being better able to define and stick to your own boundaries with your Loved One will improve plenty of things.
Wonderful to read that you’ve been mindful about avoiding subjects that might ignite anger or unnecessarily upset your Loved One. Especially with his going through an extra difficult time right now.
If we bring your question back to CRAFTy principles (as close as we can), the things to remember are:
– avoid conflict, confrontation or debate with your Loved One whenever possible (whether about their use, or anything else) because CRAFT needs you to be building that bridge all the time;
– if something they are doing (in their home, to boot) is making you uncomfortable, rather than confront him again, and insist on coming to his place, you retreat to your place, or suggest you meet up/spend time in a more neutral setting where you’re not getting triggered.
It is possible to frame this in a neutral, positive way vs. something that will be heard as a complaint or nagging. For instance:
“I’d love it if you could come to my place next time, I struggle with the indoor smoking and I’d be more relaxed at my place (or somewhere else)…” or something to that effect.
Nowhere do you need to say “you did/didn’t do this” or “I told you before…” etc. You make it about you, and your basic needs. Is that helpful at all?
Yes perfect ❤️
How do you find a good therapist? I’m in need of both a personal and a couples therapist who have the same viewpoints like Allies in Recovery and CRAFT.
Hello 1h575: For couples work, look at Behavioral Couples Therapy. See our tab on the right. Practitioners are not easy to find. I’ve suggested to members they reach out to the approach’s developer for ideas finding trained counselors. That information and more about the approach is in those posts. As for a therapist for you, the best thing to do is to network with your friends and others. None of the directory sites provides sufficient detail to make an informed choice. Therapists are slammed during this period. On the positive side, they can work online so the choice no longer depends on location.
My situation is a little different as my mother’s addiction is food. She grew up in an alcoholic home and prides herself in not being an alcoholic, yet her addiction surfaced as a food addiction. Growing up I recognized that she was always on a diet and looking back I recall seeing empty candy wrappers and empty snack food packages, but didn’t really put much thought into it. Now that she is in her mid 60s and I’m in my mid 40s it has become evident that her health is horrible and directly related to her food addiction. She binges on large quantities of snack foods and then hides the evidence and lies about what she eats. I have tried everything to encourage, help, inspire, shame, praise, threaten, guilt, cry, yell, offer to help with diets, research different programs, recommend books, recommend specialists, pay for therapy, pay for treatment, etc…
I pretty much have tried everything you are supposed to, and not supposed to do. The reason this has become such an issue in recent years is she has had multiple health issues that are directly related to her food addiction. She has been and continues to be morbidly obese, has high blood pressure, has had a cardiac event, broken both femurs (femurs are not easy bones to break), has had to have knee and hip replacements because of pain from excessive weight, she has sleep apnea and requires oxygen at night to breathe, and her mobility is significantly declined because of her most recent traumatic surgery that required a 10 hour surgery, and 3 months in a rehabilitation hospital (fell on the carpet and broke her femur off into her artificial hip hardware). She has told me on several occasions that she is addicted to food and I started researching the topic and looking at her behavior…
I saw that it is truly an addiction and it is so hard to watch her slowly kill herself. I sat her down and calmly expressed my concern for her health and my fear that she is killing herself, and she accepted all my contacts for therapy, book recommendations, specialist contacts, and online resources… She said she would get help and do what it takes to get better. The concern for me is that I have often left my kids in her care and now that she is a walking heart attack I can’t imagine leaving my kids with her for more than a short period of time. Also, my kids are now starting to recognize her binging patterns of eating because she does it in front of them, thinking they won’t know… but, they do! The only reason I am so involved in her current journey is because I am an only child, she lives by herself, she needs me to help take out her trash (I can see all the wrappers), and other household things because of her limited mobility. If I abandon her, she has no one… But, it is also unbearable to watch your mom slowly and emotionally eat herself to death. I’m also a dietitian, which looking back at my childhood… my profession clearly was influenced by my desire to not be like my mom… Even though this has only recently been in my conscious awareness.
Anyway… My reason for joining this group was to first figure out how to talk to an addict and the modules were so helpful. I’m now aware that my negative, hopeless, desperate comments weren’t appropriate in making her want to seek help. I kept thinking if she loved me and my kids enough, and if I could make her aware of what she was doing to her health that she would want to seek help, but she’s broken and can’t find it in herself to seek treatment & help.
I’m currently working on accepting and loving her where she is, but I go through so many emotions of anger, sadness, frustration, and hopelessness on a weekly basis. I know I can’t fix her, and apparently I can’t convince her to seek help, but how do you find peace in your own life and move past the resentment, frustration, anger, sadness, and hurt of a loved one just continuing in their addiction with no end in sight. I now know to keep my thoughts to myself and I avoid all conversations about food, health, fitness, etc… Because I know she will just lie and honestly I doubt most things she tells me, because the lies are just continuous. Please someone… I want to learn to find peace in my relationship with my mom and if I can’t help and stop her, how can I find peace so that I can be present for my immediate family that needs their mom to be present and not consumed by grandma’s addiction?!?
I apologize for the length of my question…I just wanted to give some background.
First off, thank you for coming onto the site. Food addiction is indeed a real addiction. Your comment is a heartbreaking glimpse into the life of a person who is chronically overeating. You give important descriptions of both your mom’s situation, and the emotional pain and great frustration (etc…) of the person who loves her (you!).
Many of us will certainly relate to having food issues. If we come from families with addiction/mental illness we are more likely to have some kind of either. Coming from a childhood in which there were adverse events, like violence or the divorce of parents, also increases the likelihood of addiction and/or mental illness.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to jenniferp here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-want-to-find-peace-in-my-relationship-with-my-mo
Hi, my girlfriend finally agreed to go to alcohol addiction detox / rehab… it’s been a long ride trying to bring up 2 kids and deal with the situation…
I’m pretty down today after dropping her off at the transfer station (I had help from the Sheriff department, because he is a friend). They transferred her about an hour from that station and now her phone is off…
It was harder then I thought to do this, but I can’t explain the years of difficult situations.
I guess I just needed to vent… because I am feeling down now.
Thanks for listening.
First of all, we just want to applaud you, and your girlfriend, for this historical decision. This is HUGE, snicoll001!!
I imagine you have been working for years at getting her help, from the way you describe this long struggle. As you may know, many people need multiple treatment episodes to really gain momentum with recovery. This may, or may not, be the case with your girlfriend, but what is certain is that she is getting desperately needed help right now. Hooray!
Read Isabel Cooney’s full response to snicoll001 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-left-for-treatment-im-home-alone
There is a question at the end…
My husband and I have just confirmed that our smart, curious, loving, 16.75-year-old son is addicted to cannabis in its various forms but mostly high potency wax and carts. His use has gone largely undetected by us because when we caught him a few times early in freshman year, he crafted very skilful ways of hiding it. Although he keeps managing to catch up on his schoolwork and come in around curfew, he is starting to be forgetful and can’t keep track of anything, and is often short tempered and disrespectful. He may be using something else but its unidentified as of yet.
For the past year or so he has been increasingly irritable, unpredictable, abrasive, and sometimes becomes so angry he is destructive to his room. He is also engaging in risky behaviors when he’s out with friends (friends that are constantly changing and not for the better). He is a new driver and is engaging in risky behavior behind the wheel.
He LOVES and LIVES to drive. He loves driving and he loves the freedom and social clout and access it affords him.
Two weeks ago we confronted him with the irrefutable proof of the cannabis use. Although we initially thought we could help him by limiting his opportunities to smoke and access to it as well as providing him education through a virtual program for teens with SUDs, we now know it’s way past that.
It’s been five days since he lost control of himself so badly that he was taken by ambulance to the ER where he continued to be out of control until the next morning. At that time, he was compliant and willing to say anything to go home.
Now we are all home having purged the house of everything we could find and not allowing him to leave to get more while we wait for a program that doesn’t seem to exist right now. Virtual will be a waste of time although it would be better than doing nothing while we wait for face to face partial or ideally inpatient.
Please provide feedback on our plan which is to get him sober enough, long enough, to get him to agree to go to an inpatient dual diagnosis treatment program. We are trying to incentivise him to abstain long enough to clear his head by not allowing him to drive until he is clean (as verified through home drugs screens conducted in my husband’s view so no planted urine.)
We also won’t allow him to replace the bedroom door he kicked in until we are sure he is clean. We won’t allow friends in or him out until we know he is clean.
Please provide feedback on anything you have tried that works to help get a minor to treatment.
Also please provide feedback on forced inpatient treatment for minors. We want to make the most of the next fourteen months. Thank you.
Thank you for this good summary of your son’s cannabis use and the behaviors that have you worried.
The incident where he ended up in the ER sounds terrifying. I gather your son lost control and beat down a door. Please visit Module 2 on Safety. If you didn’t answer the exercises on safety, please do so. The questions guide you quickly through 7 key steps to designing a safety plan.
You are anxious to know next steps. The first is to take a deep breath. While your son is indeed close to the age of emancipation, this is not of top importance when considering treatment, etc.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to ElpiNikki here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-the-pros-cons-of-forcing-a-minor-into-treatment
Hi,
This is my first question here. Our son, who is an alcoholic, and his wife need to get some care. I see that BCT is a method you suggest. How can I help steer them in the right direction to find a therapist for this in the Northampton, MA area?
Thank you,
Sally Ann
Welcome. There are not many practitioners of BCT, though online may make it easier to find someone. The last time I hunted was years ago and the closest practitioner to Northampton was Worcester. The developer is: timothy_ofarrell@hms.harvard.edu
He’s in Boston: Harvard University Psychiatry Department at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Brockton, MA 02301, USA. He has answered me in the past. Try reaching out to him.
Interesting that this came up for discussion. Our daughter had a therapist she really connected with while she lived and worked recovery in Worcester. Now our daughter lives with us in Western Mass and she has not gotten a new therapist. She is working on it but there seem to be some delays. Long story short, since we are in COVID times, she contacted her old therapist and asked for her services. The therapist said she could do it and they will begin their virtual therapy this week. So distance may not be an issue after all. I hope that after quarantine ends the virtual options remain.
Great news, gptraveler! So glad your daughter can reconnect with someone she’s comfortable and familiar with, and that the technology of 2020 makes this easy!! Thanks for letting us know!
Hello,
First of all, thank you so much for the information provided on this site and for making it free during the pandemic. I have only just begun to delve in and I already have learned so much.
My boyfriend has been a heroin user for almost a decade and is currently using. He has completed several detox and programs but absolutely refuses to go to inpatient. The problem that we’re facing is that with a large family, not everyone is on the same page as to what is best for him. While some of us have taken pains to disengage and stop rewarding for using, others continue to do what they feel is best for him.
What are your suggestions for dealing with an addict who clearly needs help but takes advantage of the fact that some loved ones do not follow the 3 steps you outline?
Thank you again for what you do. It is a relief for me to have this site.
Thank you for coming forward with this question and welcome to Allies in Recovery!
It is always best to get the entire entourage on board with CRAFT, but that is easier said than done. Your situation reflects a lot of our members’ realities. You may find yourself alone fighting the good CRAFT fight. Still, try using the “wish-dip” principle outlined in module 8 segment 1 (https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=8&s=1) to test-fly your new skills. Wait for a wish or a dip, by a family member, as a moment to suggest a module to watch, just one….
Perhaps they are expressing frustration with your partner (a dip); or encouragement because of something he did that showed harm reduction (a wish). You come in with a short request, for example:
“Come on, help me. Just look at XX with me.”
Getting everyone on the same page could indeed multiply the effects of CRAFT and create a positive emulation for the entire family. Ideally, you set up to watch videos together and take some time to walk through what you are learning with each other. Consider practicing the communication skills from Module 4 (https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=4&s=1) and the “talking treatment” tips from Module 8 (https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=8&s=1) to approach the more reticent family members. Do your best but don’t get stuck here if they’re not ready.
The brunt of your focus should be on the members of your family who would be most willing to take a more nuanced approach to your partner’s problem use.
Can you have them visit the site and start watching a few videos? You could do it together or they could set up an account for themselves. Your less “techy” loved ones might appreciate your help with creating the account and navigating to the eLearning. You may also want to give them a tour of the various resources, then let them roll with it. We offer a welcome phone call with an Allies Advocate (https://alliesinrecovery.net/allies_advocate), should that help.
It’s wonderful that you’re here and digging deep into the eLearning program. Your inclination to try and get his family on board is a good one. However, there may be a time when you’ll need to forget about convincing them to shift their behavior. You’ll never manage to completely adjust your partner’s environment to one that is 100% conducive to recovery. He, too, will have to show up for himself. Focus on what is within your reach right now, today.
Your Loved One uses heroin and as you are probably aware, there is little pure heroin on the streets anymore. Everything is laced with, or pure, fentanyl and your partner is at a high risk of overdose.
Your first and urgent goal is therefore to get him on Suboxone or Methadone as soon as possible. Tighten up your communication, train your eye to recognize use and non-use, work with the family members who are willing, and move your partner towards medically assisted treatment (MAT) sooner rather than later.
When you do raise the MAT question, you may have to face conflicting responses from his family members:
– “He tried and “failed” at MAT before, it won’t work.”
(In our book, there’s no failing at getting treatment. We like to see it as another step towards recovery, another piece of the puzzle.)
– “He won’t agree, that’s not what he wants.”
– “It’s too expensive!”; “How will he get there?”; “Who will take care of his kids?”; “He’ll lose his job!”
We’re crossing our fingers that any suggestion you make will be welcomed with positive thoughts. However, it can be helpful to be prepared for such responses. Making your case (none of this can make you give up on treatment!) will feel easier if you know what to expect.
There is definitely a learning curve to CRAFT and it’s not a straight road, but with regular practice you will quickly get more comfortable with it. Before you can expect to start seeing concrete results, we ask you to hang on for 6 to 8 weeks of gentle shifts, steady practice and yes, mistakes, too. We’ll be here whenever you need guidance and the Learning modules can become your go-to ally when doubt creeps in.
You can sort blog posts by topic by clicking the sidebar on the Discussion Blog. “CRAFT 101” has some of the best articulated blog posts on all things CRAFT but “talking about treatment”, “family members doing CRAFT”, “communication” are all good places to start.
Two blog posts we wrote for some of our members also come to mind when considering your situation:
– https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-weve-never-broached-the-subject-of-his-substance-u
– https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-youre-up-against-the-entourages-uninformed-in
Of course the details of these members’ story are different, but your journeys intrinsically have much in common, too.
I also want to take a moment to acknowledge how fast you’ve taken to CRAFT and how well you understand the primary tenets of the method. This is key, not only to getting your Loved One on the path to recovery, but also to getting you where you want to be: calm, centered, able to focus on yourself and your own needs, thriving, too.
Check out our podcast “Coming Up for Air”. In episode 61 “Laurie’s Internal Journey”, Allies’ contributor Laurie MacDougall explains how educating herself about addiction moved her away from the helplessness she was feeling most of the time. She sheds light on how CRAFT not only empowered her as a family member, but also taught her how important it was to know when to take a step back. She talks about recognizing what’s really going on inside YOU and channelling those emotions in a proactive way for YOU (and your Loved One — helping yourself can only help him, too, in the long run).
CRAFT and self-care are the winning combination. The Sanctuary, the podcast, self-help meetings (head to https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-online-support-options-for-loved-ones-and-family-m for ideas for you, as well as for your Loved One), journaling, listening to music, sipping herbal tea while reading a new book you can’t seem to put down, can all help get you through this in one piece. If you need to spend 3 minutes refreshing your ideas on what are the most rewarding self-care activities for you, see Key Observations # 20: https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=7&s=7
You have set out to help your Loved One walk towards recovery; we applaud your determination and are with you 100%. Thank you for your kind words and your appreciation of the site. We wouldn’t be much without you and are so deeply humbled by your dedication and perseverance.
Thank you so much for all you’ve taught me. Prior to this, I told my 22yo daughter to leave my home. She lived in her car for a month, lost 30# and was out of control. Finally agreed to detox and treatment. Finished detox and she refused further help. I promised I’d never kick her out again and adopted CRAFT and work an alternate strategy. She has been home for 2 months now.
Our communication and relationship are amazing; however we have a dance we do that I need to break cycle. She always comes home, or calls and uses so much less…however smoking meth originally and the past month switched back to smoking fentanyl. She does it in her room while I’m asleep or at work. I find foil and other paraphernalia.
She holds a full time job, pays her own car so consequences are confusing for me. I speak to her, she apologizes or if she is triggered tells me I love searching her room and I’ve made a hobby of it. Yes I do it daily and throw everything away but live it. No. What is the next step. I’m at such a loss .. I can remove my hugs and positive support as a consequence; however what else.
I’m petrified about her OD’ing, I have Narcan handy but something has to move along here. Please help.
Hi Tmas. We’re glad you wrote in, and we see that you’re asking yourself the right questions and are seeking to shift this new pattern you’re part of. Your main goal is to support your daughter’s recovery, yet the dance you’ve slipped into with her is clearly no longer helping.
I know you don’t necessarily want to hear this, but you may have to consider reinstating to your arsenal the possibility of kicking her out again. I’m afraid this has to remain an option for any family member, when an adult child has set up in your house and is using fentanyl daily.
Read my full response to Tmas here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-9-crafty-guidelines-for-when-theyre-under-your-roo
While we knew my 20 year old stepdaughter who was living 5 hours away was abusing pain pills, we actually found out she was injecting when she ended up in the hospital for endocarditis. We brought her to our home in our rural community where she stayed at our local hospital for six weeks while she received IV antibiotics for her heart infection. The cardiologist says she will need a heart valve replacement/repair in about 8 weeks. Since she was staying in the hospital these six weeks, she went through detox during that time and they put her on a low dose Suboxone prescription. Because her hospitalization was for medical reasons, she didn’t really go through detox/rehab as most people struggling with abuse do. She says she wants to stay clean and will need to produce a negative drug screen in order to get her heart surgery in the next few weeks. She has been completely removed from the environment and friends where she initiated the drugs. We live in a very rural area and her license and car were revoked. We are just unsure how to incorporate rehab into her life while we are awaiting medical go-ahead for her heart surgery. Is rehab still necessary to learn new coping skills?
The definition of treatment, or “rehab” is ever evolving, especially in Covid times when so many are “stuck at home.” We encourage you to move past any orthodox definitions of rehab and be inspired by the above post, and by the rich variety of online recovery options listed on our Resource Supplement ( https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-online-support-options-for-loved-ones-and-family-m).
Also of course, treatment can be done in the community and even online.
For today, things feel impossible. I am just going to read in the bedroom. I may not come out until the morning. I feel so tired.
Thank you for writing in and welcome to Allies in Recovery. In the blink of an eye, your stepdaughter went from using and living 5 hours away, to getting off the drugs and living under your roof. Lots of change, and probably, waves of intense emotions for all of you.
She was willing to go to treatment and has voiced a desire to stay clean. She is now living with you, away from the people and places that partly define her using process. Opportunity and motivation for change are key and she is holding both in her hands!
Community Treatments work as well as inpatient/residential (providing there is a safe, CRAFT, recovery environment provided for our Loved One being treated in the community.)
Your Loved One is at a crossroads, which could prove profoundly positive, As I’m sure you’re aware, the next few months may be highly challenging for all of you.
You are spot-on in wanting to incorporate recovery inputs into her life ASAP and considering ways for her to learn new coping skills. It is crucial to make a list of treatment and self-help options she could attend, ideally on a daily basis.
Based on your comment, here are some resources from this site which could help to move things forward:
– First and foremost, dive into the eLearning program
Going through the 8 modules will eventually allow you to understand CRAFT and gently start to implement the method. There is a learning curve and it may take 6 to 8 weeks of practice before you start seeing results, but it is worth it! It CAN bring long lasting change into your lives.
For now, I suggest you focus on Modules 4, 5 and 6 which will clarify how to talk to your Loved One and what stance to adopt, based on their behavior. Module 8, on how to address treatment, will also come in handy since your stepdaughter does need serious and consistent recovery input.
“9 CRAFTy Guidelines for When They’re Under Your Roof” (https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-9-crafty-guidelines-for-when-theyre-under-your-roo) lays out how to navigate being home with a Loved One in early recovery or when you’re in that gray area where a LO’s relapse is a daily threat. In other words, turn your home into a top-notch sober home (nothing compares to family love and support)!
The sidebar on the Discussion Blog allows you to sort blog posts by topic. “CRAFT 101” is your go-to topic today. We created it to reinforce the concepts addressed in the Learning Modules.
“Early sobriety”, “self-help groups”, “communication” and “talking about treatment” are topics that may also feel helpful, if you feel like doing more research!
– Lots to learn and implement, but don’t forget to take care of YOU in the process.
Self-care is at the heart of CRAFT and Allies in Recovery. Module 7 and the Sanctuary (under “Blogs & Podcasts”) are dedicated to helping you help and care for yourself, identify your own needs, get more centered, etc . In this piece (cf paragraph entitled “Caring for ourselves to better care for others” https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-keep-texting-him-when-he-doesnt-answer ) Allies mom, and guest blogger Laurie MacDougall explains how selfless it actually is to make time for yourself.
Thank you so much for your question, kettle100. Please don’t hesitate to reach out again as you keep supporting your stepdaughter and moving forward with CRAFT.
My daughter just gave birth to her second addicted baby. So now both children have been taken away from her and her boyfriend. I believe he is also using and helping my daughter get drugs. He has several other children from previous relationships that have all been born addicted.
My daughter and the boyfriend live alone. He is in school and she does not work. We believe that he is abusive toward her. She is a very attentive Mother and is heartbroken by this.(I am quite aware that a good Mother does not use drugs while pregnant.)
Not heartbroken enough to seek treatment. She is also on a suboxone program, but many other drugs were found in her system. Our family has fallen into the trap of telling her what she needs to do, which she doesn’t want to here. She will confide in us, but then pull away. She is obviously scared or whatever to take the first step.
The boyfriend is enabling for sure and controlling. She doesn’t have a car so she is completely dependent on him. I am considering getting at least temporary custody of the 1 year old. I cannot handle the infant as I work full time. I don’t know if this is a good idea or not. I am married and my husband will help.
My ex-husband and I are going to really work on the listening and talking techniques to open up the lines of communication and work toward seeing her at least once a week to build trust and help her be able to work through this. If anyone has any ideas on how to help her, and about taking the baby, I would appreciate it. I do realize this has to be her choice, but I need ideas on how to build up the communication and trust.
Having a daughter struggling with Substance Use Disorder (SUD) is difficult enough but then adding in a love relationship with a boyfriend who also has SUD, and is possibly controlling and abusive, plus the complexities around losing custody of two children, makes for a tough detangling of how to encourage and move forward.
What is totally amazing is how both mom and dad are still focused on how to help and support their daughter and grandchildren. It is wonderful to hear that you already have a strong understanding that telling and attempting to force our Loved Ones to do what we want or think is the solution to their problems, is rarely fruitful. In fact, it often leads us further and further away from improvement of the situation.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to MickeyMom here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-her-baby-was-taken-away-should-i-seek-custody
Hi
Our daughter is in temporary foster care as my girlfriend drinks through depression. She is the best mother in the world and loves our daughter more than life itself. She misses her every second of the day and thinks she has lost her forever. I keep telling her she is just not with us until she gets her drinking under control. My partner drinks to numb the pain, but while our girl is away from us her depression is getting worse so she drinks again to numb the pain.
How do I get her to go through the pain of not having our daughter at home when the pain of not having her daughter here is so bad. She is not A violent drunk she just drinks to sleep. But hair strand tests are important to get our girl back, it’s a viscous circle she is in. Halloween was extremely hard for her as she could hear all the other children with their parents and this was our first without her. Now as Christmas is getting closer she is saying she can’t go through it as Christmas is important to her.
Has anyone any advice I can help my partner. She really is a wonderful person, mother and partner.
Thank you
Your love, support and admiration for your partner are inspiring to behold. She is very lucky — both to have you at her side, but also that you now have at your fingertips a proven-to-be-effective method for families to help move their Loved One toward treatment.
Your most powerful weapon right now is just that: the alchemy produced from a deep commitment to working this program (we usually say 6-8 weeks until significant results start showing up) mixed with the love and hope that you are still holding on to.
Your daughter is no longer in the house as your partner’s drinking has triggered her temporary removal to a foster home. How deeply upsetting for both of you this must be. However, it does give you more time and space to work through the alcohol issues.
Who is charged with deciding when you can see your daughter or with deciding her eventual return? Your daughter is a huge reward. You can’t dole her out like another reward, day-to-day as your partner tries not to drink but, like it or not, your daughter is involved and you will want to use her strategically.
We recently worked with a young mom of an infant who had to remove herself and baby from the home they shared with her husband, due to his drinking. We suggested she make dates outside the home with her husband for him to see his child. She would meet him in a park, and spend an hour just being a family again.
The joy of seeing his child and being in family fueled his motivation. The message was clear to him. She loves me, wants me well, and isn’t trying to remove my child from me. I want my family back.
His wife had made it clear though, she was not coming back until he made a meaningful effort at sobriety. Within the week, he was in treatment.
Your little girl is deeply motivating. Do you have any control over when you see your daughter? If so, I would be thinking of ways to use those visits as a reward for attending a therapist appointment for the depression, or a self-help meeting online (see our list in the Resource Supplement). You would literally time it so that at the end of the appointment, you would go see your daughter.
Your partner urgently needs to be shown a way forward. You’re going to have to put those pieces together for her and light the path.
Her family history of serious alcoholism and the temporary loss of your daughter signal the need to focus on what both of you can do today.
The family history means that your girlfriend likely inherited a vulnerability to addiction, and grew up in a household where drinking was common. She knows more than most where this is going, but depression is stifling her ability to address any of it.
Your girlfriend is in a bad way, but you could actually be grateful that things have become pressingly problematic, which could spark her to look more seriously at the crossroad she is facing.
So let’s get your family reunified. Here’s a sample statement to begin your planned conversation:
“Dear one, I love you, our daughter, our family. I am reaching out to experts to help me understand what I can do. They suggested I put this list together. It starts with a detoxification unit etc. (show her the written list.) I’ve also included a therapist for the depression in case you want to address this first.”
You will encounter this idea in the modules if you haven’t already: we encourage a family member such as yourself, when there’s a co-occurring disorder on top of (or underneath!) the addiction, to make sure to include treatment options for the mental disorder in the list they’re compiling. If a Loved One is highly resistant to getting help for the drinking, but willing to discuss/address the depression, jump on it! A good therapist will help her sort through it all.
It is important that you go through the eLearning modules and deepen your understanding of how CRAFT works.
Work the eLearning modules one by one. Do the exercises. Don’t skip anything. When you get to the last one, go back and start watching again. https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=1&s=1
Take a specific look at the Communication Module (https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=4&s=1) and check out KO Exercise #15 that helps you practice making a request (https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=4&s=5).
Once you’re a bit farther along with CRAFT (and have your treatment options ready to hand over), this segment could help you formulate your request that she seriously address her drinking (or depression). She needs to hear from you that this can’t go on, and that you will help her in any way you can, so that she can climb out of this place and eventually reunite with her daughter.
Use this Discussion Blog to pose questions once you have started integrating CRAFT into each day. https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog
The long list of topics on the sidebar of the blog can help you pinpoint the best articles on the subjects that interest you the most.
Here are a couple of suggestions based on what we know of your situation:
children, when involved: https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=102
CRAFT 101: https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=500
All our very best wishes for a smooth and successful start with CRAFT.
High functioning drinker.
My husband drinks hard liquor in secret and I never see him drink it or know where he keeps it. Our situation has evolved to this: We’ve been married 17 years and he used to drink beer out in the open and did not try to hide anything, but is now making a public “show” by drinking beer only rarely. About 7 years ago, he started drinking hard liquor very heavily, like most/many nights really drunk, stumbling, slurring, etc. (I have done the “co-dependent” thing, finding his hiding places, marking bottles and he was drinking the 1.75L bottles and I think he was drinking anywhere from 4-8 oz straight at that time.)
I approached him and he has gradually cut back. He has now “stabilized” at about a steady rate of 2 12-ounce bottles of Yukon Jack Whiskey per week (sometimes a little more or a little less). Sometimes I see the effect, sometimes I am ‘suspicious’ but not sure, and other times, I’m sure he has drank and I don’t notice it. The reason I know how much is because I look in our trash and recycling (yes, I am “codependent” – and I don’t care – this is the only way I know if and how much he drinks).
I am not good with verbally confronting (my words get all jumbled up and I don’t say what I want and how I want). I am much better at writing so I have been texting or emailing him off and on every several months in an attempt to appeal to him to see what he is doing, admit it is a problem and get help. When he drinks he has had no negative consequences. He drinks, sobers up by bedtime (or goes to bed early) but gets up and goes to work or acts like nothing happened. Doesn’t act like ever has hangovers or feels bad the next day. He pretty much just drinks at home, he doesn’t go to bars. He sits at home, secretly drinks and either keeps to himself and checks out or is alert enough to make messes and be annoying but that’s it.
Sometimes when I see he is under the influence I remove myself. Usually, in the past, I have not specifically told him it was because of his drinking, I would just go sit in a separate room and presumed he knew why. I am now going to make a point of saying why. Other times I have just tolerated him and sat feeling annoyed and angry. We never fight because I dont say anything verbally and I almost never say anything in the moment. (I am going to work on removing myself and announcing why). Sometimes when he has drank it is very subtle and I can’t tell for sure.
If I am at all suspicious, should I remove myself if I have any suspicion? Even if I am not sure? I am sure there are times when he is “getting away with it” – that I don’t realize he has drank and is under the influence. I don’t know what or if there is anything I can or should do. He has had moments of acknowledgement but usually will deny or lie, so I figure there is no point in asking. I have on occasion mouthed off, grumbled under my breath or told him he is lying. I have asked him to be honest. I moved out of the master bedroom and I am currently living in a spare bedroom and he knows why.
I have also been telling him for several years that I will divorce him (when I am ready – and I do mean it. I have a daughter who is 17 and a senior in high school). I have told him I do not plan on spending my life this way and I do not plan on retiring with him like this. (I am 55). We have a 2-story house and I am thinking about moving/living in the downstairs leading my own separate life until I am ready to retire. I don’t want to divorce right now and sell because I don’t want to live in an apartment; it is expensive and I want to relocate when I retire anyway so that’s why I haven’t made the plan to just get it over with now.
I am tired of waiting for him to see that he is ruining our marriage and get sober so we can have a life. The reason I have held on was because of my daughter. I didn’t want her to shuffle back and forth between 2 parents. He is not violent and is just annoying and messy when he drinks. He knows I don’t have a problem with having a drink or beer if it is consumed reasonably but not for the purpose of getting drunk or buzzed.
He finally started seeing a counselor (sporadically) and because of COVID he had a zoom meeting and I overheard him (yes, I was eavesdropping) talking to her a couple times and lying to her about not drinking hard liquor. (He was sitting in our downstairs and I was sitting upstairs so he didn’t know I could hear him) So I don’t think he was altering his response to her based on him thinking I could hear him. So it doesn’t seem like he wants to be honest and really work on it. I have tried to be supportive. I am the one who last Jan gave him a list of counselors. I know it is a good step that he actually finally met with a counselor but I am tired of waiting for him to get a clue and get his act together. If I didn’t have a daughter in the mix, I would more seriously consider the divorce right now.
Just 2 days ago, he was obviously under the influence and I removed myself and told him why. He denied it and I called him a liar. I also found 2 12 oz empty whiskey bottles in our trash this week, so he seems to be holding steady. Not sure what else to do to push him toward getting more intense real help or just give up and move downstairs. Your website is awesome and is very helpful. I would love some input from anyone. Sorry, so long winded.
Welcome to Allies in Recovery and kudos to you for being here and wanting to help. You’ve already integrated the idea of removing yourself when you see use, and we commend you for this!
Reading your comment, a few action items come to mind:
– Dive back into the e-Learning program.
Focus on Modules 4 and 6 and look for guidance on what stance to adopt when removing yourself. CRAFT teaches you how to neutralize your withdrawal. Simply put: Stay out of the weeds, don’t bring up the use and bite your tongue when you want to call him a liar!
Your goal is to clean up your communication and restore healthy dynamics in your family. This method will help you build a bridge between you and your Loved One and de-escalate tense situations. You come in peace, you’re not out for blood, nor trying to prove him wrong or argue a case.
– You talk about how you sometimes remove yourself when he’s under the influence.
Can you push it even further and remove yourself EVERY TIME you see use or even suspect he’s been drinking?
Refer to Module 6, segment n°1 for clarification on the definition of “use” and what to do when you see it (https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=6&s=1).
Read this blog post we wrote for a member who, like you, had doubts about whether she was right or wrong to assume her husband had been drinking (https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-youre-going-to-mess-up-the-rewards-sometimes).
CRAFT 101 is a topic we created for our members who need guidance in the early stages of the program. Reading the articles listed there can give you a good head start (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=500).
-Focus on self-care and head to Module 7.
Your words are infused with frustration and exhaustion, you feel hurt. We hear you loud and clear, Sue628. These feelings are deeply valid.
Is it possible that you may need to explore and embrace these feelings before you can gradually shift your mindset? Could this be an invitation to tend to your own needs?
Here are two blog posts in which we address the importance of feelings like anger, frustration and hopelessness:
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-its-okay-not-to-have-hope
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-dont-want-to-have-compassion-for-him-right-now
Our relationships play a big role in how we feel every day. However, the pursuit of happiness is a deeply personal endeavour. Too often, we expect others to make us happy when we should demand this from ourselves. If you only do one thing this coming week, Sue628, I urge you to take some time to breathe and ask yourself what makes YOU feel good? What can rekindle your inner fire?
Check out Episode 61 of our podcast “Coming Up for Air”. Laurie talks about the balance between honoring your feelings and taking the reins of recovery and about how CRAFT and peer support were what she needed to stand back up.
Your husband started talking to a counselor and the way he presented the situation created some frustration for you. For more insight on this topic: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-enough-lies-give-me-the-truth (Make sure to check out rachaeltwin’s comment at the bottom of the post, and Isabel Cooney’s response to her.)
Finally, you wonder how you can push him to get more intensive help. Threats, arguments and manipulation are not your friends here. Subtly shifting your communication and your stance will spark change.
Practicing CRAFT is not without effort and commitment, but it is not an arm-wrestling game with your Loved One. You should give it 6 to 8 weeks of steady, gentle practice before you start expecting to see results.
Thank you, Sue628 and again, welcome to Allies in Recovery!
My spouse is an alcoholic, he is 2 completely different person when drinking, or abstaining for a period of time.
I get hopeful when he seems to take accountability, it is so short lived once he has a week or two of sobriety.
He gets very angry, and defensive if its brought up, and he gets angry because he says I am not supportive, or encouraging as I am supposed to be. He uses things he has read to point out others falling short, and excuses himself.
How do I approach this individually, so I can deal with it, and not grow in resentment. Wanting to know the healthy, appropriate way to handle this.
Great question, Rispoli, and welcome to Allies!
What you describe is of course very, very difficult to experience. Watching someone you love yoyo between the best version of themselves and the worst, can simply be traumatizing. It’s also very disorienting, and hard to now how to respond or react.
It is par for the course that our Loved Ones with Substance Use Disorder (SUD) often get highly defensive and angry when we bring up the use. Which is why we recommend _only_ bringing up the use in very specific circumstances. You’ll learn more about this in the eLearning Modules.
CRAFT, the method you’ll learn in the eLearning Modules, will give you a set of principles to follow, both when you see him using, and when you don’t.
It’s a combination of behaviorism (there is a system of rewarding during times of non-use and withdrawing rewards, including your own presence, when you see use. “Use” includes when they’re getting ready to use, are in the midst of using, or are withdrawing/hung over), positive communication skills and self-care that have been shown in numerous studies to outperform any other approach/intervention.
Families practicing CRAFT are seeing their Loved Ones’ using behaviors reduced, their Loved Ones more willing to go into treatment and/or stay there longer, and their own overall stress/worry levels decreasing as well.
So glad you found us and the CRAFT method!
The videos (or eBooks if you prefer to read through the program) are the core of the learning here. This Discussion Blog is typically used by members to come in with specific questions they run into when applying CRAFT to their particular situation.
The CRAFT 101 topic tag will give you a good selection of explanatory welcome-to-CRAFT articles to get you up to speed. https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=500
Finally, since you mention rage, we strongly encourage _all_ members to begin with the Intro Module (1) and the Safety Module (2) before moving on to the rest of the program.
And we have just published a short post outlining our stance on violence (verbal, physical) in relation to practicing CRAFT: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-youre-concerned-about-violence-is-craft-appro
All the best,
the Allies Team
My 20 y/o daughter comes home from rehab this coming Friday. I have so many emotions. At this moment, I’m mostly scared.
Praying for wisdom. Any advice on first night home.
Hello chris.tima, I hear you, it must feel very scary.
Have you taken a few minutes to sit with that fear? This is not part of the CRAFT method, but rather something I’ve learned to try to practice in my life, when the emotions are really starting to get the better of me. When I feel like they’re running me and I don’t even know how I feel (and sometimes I don’t exactly know why either!)
The idea of sitting with the emotion(s) is twofold:
1) you are settling down into silence (https://alliesinrecovery.net/sanctuary-me-meditate), connecting to that infinitely deep source within you that can bring all kinds of soothing.
2) you can do a very simple dialogue – either with the emotion you’ve identified, or if it feels more complex than that, you scan your body for places of tension – you talk with that place of tension and ask it what it’s harboring. And ask for any important messages.
The emotional “storms” that wash over us can often make so much internal “noise” that we just don’t even know what we are really feeling. It makes it harder to accept the feelings, if we can’t see them clearly, I find.
Also, just like we encourage de-escalating techniques when communicating with your Loved Ones (Module 4 on communication), we can de-escalate things within our own selves by simply acknowledging what’s happening in there.
The dialogue I’m suggesting is super basic, as if you were talking to a 3-year-old. Examples:
– “Fear, hello. I see you’re here within me. It’s true, I’m feeling scared. Please help me to see what, specifically, I am scared of.”
or, addressing a knot in your belly, or a feeling of constriction in your throat: (maybe putting one hand lovingly on the area you can feel is holding the emotions)
– Hello Belly. Thank you for sending me a message. I can feel you are holding some hard feelings in there. Please help me to name them, and see what they’re connected to…”
Again, these are simply examples. I always appreciate being reminded by someone in my entourage that, just like we can converse with people, we can also converse with energies within and without us, and get answers from them. Provided we allow for some quiet, introspective time and space.
Otherwise, I just want to say, you are on this site, you have access to the eLearning modules which will give you a most splendid toolbox and answer many of your questions on how to proceed with your daughter.
In addition to the eLearning modules which are a must, I’d recommend you check out the following tags on this blog and read up on the guidance we’ve been providing to other members:
CRAFT 101 – https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=500
Daybed & Locker – https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=390
Home/Homeless (home as a reward) https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=133
You are in good hands, dear chris.tima. The evidence-based method we teach here is extremely reassuring for people in a situation like yours, as these are tried and true strategies. You have several days before she comes home to plunge into the CRAFT method, and really immerse yourself.
Don’t forget, we are here to help light the path. Your daughter is so lucky that you’ve found Allies in Recovery, and are taking the time to ask the right questions and process the difficult emotions that are understandably coming up.
We’re in this together. Deep breath.
I appreciate your response so much. I dove into the modules yesterday. I’m so happy I found this site.
We, too, are so happy you found us and can now lean on us, and CRAFT, and this community, to help you get a solid plan in place to help your daughter in her early recovery (that’s another good tab to check out BTW) – https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=248
What do I do when my alcoholic girlfriend wants to get some wine. She’s already had nearly a bottle already. Do I stop her or let her do it?
Good question SFozzy, and welcome to Allies.
This is not the type of question for which we have a ready-made answer, as every situation is different, and often the details make the diffrence.
As you’re new to the site, I’ll presume you may not have found the time yet to dive into the eLearning modules.
We typically use this Discussion Blog as reinforcement and case study/guidance for family members who are following our eLearning program and applying CRAFT to their situation.
We encourage you to start there (watch Modules 1 & 2 first, then you can do the rest in whatever order feels best) and then come back to the Discussion Blog once you have spent some time absorbing how the method works and need some specific guidance.
You may want to look at Module 6 sooner rather than later to learn about what CRAFT suggests for moments when your Loved One is using.
So many of our members (myself included) have had really great results using CRAFT with a Loved One. It takes a bit of time, and some determination, but if you really dig in and give it a chance, we think there’s a great chance you’ll start to notice little positive changes very soon.
The CRAFT 101 tag (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=500) might also be a great one to look at for some further reading.
Again, welcome to Allies. We hope you’ll quickly find direction vis à vis your girlfriend’s problem alcohol use, and how to communicate with her so as to encourage less use and more treatment.
Just about 3 years ago today, my family held an intervention for my older brother, 51, who was using meth daily for over a year. He was an elementary teacher at this time. He did 6 weeks of out patient following the intervention. He never admitted going back to use however based off of life situations that came up, it is quite obvious he was using. Eventually he ended up homeless and sleeping in his car. Months of this led him to asking my family to help him and let him live with us. He lived with us for almost 6 months.
In that time frame, he got a job and gained confidence, but did not do any treatment or therapy. He moved back to Denver and got his teaching job back. 6 months of teaching,he then got fired for breaking his contract. He refuses to talk to the family about what happened and even denies he got fired. He has become more and more distant with us. Ignores phone calls and most often texts.
I believe he is still using, but his daughter, 14 says no. She and her mom just act like nothing is wrong, when I believe deep down they also think he is using.
With the holidays coming up, I want to talk to him and address his loss of job and my concerns for his use. I don’t feel I can go on with pretending everything is normal and put up a facade. I don’t know how to interact with him anymore, but so badly want my brother back.
He says that the family is judgemental and makes assumptions that are wrong. He lives 2 hours away from me.
I am thankful for finding this site and will start the modules and learn about CRAFT.
In the meantime, do I follow my gut that he is using or try to believe in him when he says he would never go back??
You’ve asked a great question and answering it is simple. “Do I follow my gut that he is using…? YES, you do!
As you will see if you’ve already plunged into the eLearning modules that CRAFT requires you to act in the moment based on your best guess as to whether your Loved One is using or not using. This is of course more about how to act/respond in the moment. But following your gut is (in my opinion) almost always a great idea.
So, should you believe his story that he’s not using right now, while your gut is telling you it’s not true and he’s suffering and struggling? No, you should trust your gut (the eLearning exercises in Module 3 will help you learn to trust your gut). It’s your compass, your inner wisdom. The strength of denial can be astounding, and addiction (and other behaviors people are ashamed to acknowledge) certainly brings out surgical-quality denial. Man, it’s powerful stuff. Not to mention that we so want to believe what they’re saying, but when your gut pipes up and says, “all signs are pointing to his using,” you’re most likely right.
Read my full response to $ister4 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-says-hes-not-using-but-my-gut-says-otherwise
Hello I am a mother of a 39 year old drug addict. I hear from her monthly on Facebook messenger. She has had 4 children and has raised none for 13 years. I am now sitting in ICU because she has 2 aneurysms.
I have had a history of bailing her out of jail and paying for a rehab program.
She comes to stay for a week and leaves because our life is boring and has “someone” pick her up while I am at work. I work hard to keep spending time and keep relationships with her sons, my grandchildren.
I am so tired of this vicious cycle which I feel like I have failed her. I feel like the system has failed her.
Now I do not have the financial means to help her to get help. I’m not sure she really wants help – she says she does but she always has. Help from Texas!
Teachpavlock, I light a candle every time someone on our site needs more good energy for the day. We are thinking about your daughter, her kids, and you. We’re glad to have you write in from Texas, and hope you’re holding up ok.
Before digging into your question, let me first relay my friend Emily’s story, which I believe is a close fit to yours:
Emily would say she had no choice but to take care of her family. It’s like she always had to be the wisest one in the room.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to teachpavlock here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-feel-like-ive-failed-her
I’m sure my problem is a common one.
The addict is my stepson. I love him but not at the level his parents do. On the other hand, I feel that I see the situation far more clearly than his parents.
My stepson, age 43, has been in detox twice. His addiction is deep seated….at least 15 active years, so far, for heroin, fentanyl, xanax, cocaine, and reportedly even aerosol huffing.
He just left his second stint in detox. The plan was that he would go to a half-way house as soon as a bed became available. Now that he’s out he is “reconsidering” the 1/2 way house.
IMHO his parents are coddling him… taking him out to dinner at nice restaurants; letting him drink alcohol; not demanding that he go to AA or have a plan. They accept his claim that he is “deciding” what to do.
I can hardly stand to watch this.
Please help me be a good wife and stepmother! I am considering leaving, but I want to do what is best. I love my husband.
Over the years, you have witnessed your stepson’s having to make sense of mixed messages like the one you describe: being offered alcohol as a reward for going to detox. This must be confusing for him. It’s clearly upsetting to you.
Module 3 invites you to look at the ABCs of your Loved One’s addiction and allows you to reflect on how your Loved One’s use could “benefit” you (check out Key Observations Exercise #9).
This is an unusual take on the dynamics of addiction in a family and a question often triggering discomfort for family members. In your case however, it could be a turning point in having your husband and his ex-wife question their stance. What are they getting out of their son’s use? Does it make it easier for them to drink at dinner in a restaurant?
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to puzzled here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-youre-up-against-the-entourages-uninformed-in
Does anyone know anything about the Hairston House in a Northampton, MA?
My step son just left New Hope after 6 weeks in detox . He came home to await a bed and is on the list for Hairston half-way house.
Now he’s beginning to backpedal on going to Hairston because his friend George (an addict he met in Northern Hope) has told him that Hairston is “a joke”. George claims the Hairston House provides no services and simply requires residents to leave after breakfast and not return until 9:00 PM. I doubt that George’s description is accurate, but my step son is using this as his reason to refuse going to the half way house.
I want to refuse to allow my step son to stay in our house if he isn’t working on his sobriety, but my husband wants to give him a chance.
It feels like it’s a country club for my step son now. Nice food. Golfing.
He needs to keep on the road to sobriety, but it feels like we are spinning backwards.
Any stories about Hairston would be helpful. Thanks!
Welcome Puzzled. We will get out a full answer to your first question. As for Hairston House, as a rule we don’t provide referrals on this site. We would if we knew the place well and had some recent interaction with the provider.
This happens to be the case with Hairston House, a 12 step, social model, men’s sober home, located in downtown Northampton Mass.
Dan McCarthy, the Program Director, has been at Hairston House for over a decade. He runs a warm, caring home. The home is therefore staffed. As for structure, the home case manages community supports for its residents and urges 12 step participation. The home houses 18 or so men. I have had dinner with some over the years, sitting around a big huge table. The men openly talk about their good fortune. Social model houses provide a model for its governance that gives residents a voice. I’ve been visiting the house and occasionally running discussions about family for at least 10 years.
Hairston is a sober home, not a structured inpatient program. If this sounds about right for your stepson, I believe it would be a good experience for him.
My 34 year old son left his rental home, belongings and cat but brought with his laptop and a duffel bag. He hasn’t communicated in 5 weeks. Last response via email was essentially that he’ll talk to me when he’s ready. He most probably is using.
Should I file a missing person report worried he will get arrested… hire a PI? He’s never disappeared for this long before. Unfortunately he has money from unemployment and other stimulus money.
Jeanne
Welcome Piercej: Given the urgency of your situation I want to respond to you rather sooner than later. If I am reading this correctly, you may have the possibility of an intervention with your son (the caveat is the relationship your family has with the local police.)
Your 34yr old son uses methamphetamines. This isn’t the first time he has gone missing for a period of time. Having a missing person’s report filed on your son, which leads to him being arrested due to outstanding warrants or current behavior, and hoping the courts mandate your son to treatment is a mostly natural, and large consequence of his relapse/use.
It shows your son the concern you have, and it will hopefully put your mind at ease to know people are actively looking for your son.
People who use methamphetamines have binges that can last weeks. It is extremely hard to stop yourself.
I believe he wants to use and hoping he will come up for air.
Since we don’t know where he is I do not have a relationship with police. Especially if it’s Detroit
Consequences in jail there are dire
Jails are becoming the defacto SUD providers for many. Meth is a very difficult drug from which to recover. I’m sorry to say, there are few treatments, and the numbers who overcome meth are small. It destroys. A jail episode can also hurt but can also change a person, and, these days, is also the source of help for addiction. I know how scary this is for families. It is understandable to be worried about the jail system, the whole criminal justice system has trouble responding to addiction. I work in a jail. Our program is helping people inside, and transitioning them out to community treatments.
Here is an advocacy group in MI that specializes in mental illness.
https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/browse-by-state/michigan
Can you call them to see what a civil commitment for addiction would look like? They would know best how to navigate this system. Could your son fit into the category of serious mental illness? ask them.
So perhaps a Missing person filing w attachment saying civil commitment has been approved??? Every state is different. I do think the advocacy folks may be helpful.
Thank you so much. I will call today. Is cocaine and crack considered meth? I’m pretty sure cocaine is what he is using.
Cocaine and crack (used differently but the same molecule) are indeed not the same at all as crystal meth (methamphetamines), though these drugs are all in the category of stimulants.
See this recent post we published on the subject of crack (https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-lets-talk-about-crack-cocaine),
and also this page in our Resource Supplement on different signs and symptoms: https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-signs-symptoms-of-drug-use
Hello,
I have been attending SMART meetings for a couple of months and just finished reading the primary literature (GYLOS, Beyond Addiction, handbook). I have been engaged to my fiancée for almost two years, and our plan was to get married in October 2020 (next month). When we first got engaged I was not aware of how much she was struggling with alcohol use, and have come to realize over the past year and a half that it is quite significant. For the whole year of 2019 (and probably before, but I wasn’t aware), she hid her drinking from me (hid bottles in car, closet, etc.). Earlier this year, she stopped hiding her alcohol use from me, although the amount she was drinking did not decrease. She has tried a few times (of her own accord) to cut back, but it usually only lasts a few days. She has now gone back to hiding her use over the past month. It is difficult to withhold rewards when she is hiding her behavior because often I am suspicious that she is using, but not certain (although usually I find evidence later on that my instincts were correct). Now that we are approaching the time we are supposed to get married, I don’t know what to do. I am not ready to completely walk away from the relationship – I want to work through some of the things I have learned in the hopes of her recovery. At the same time, I am not prepared to commit to her for the rest of our lives if she isn’t going to change. She knows that I am not happy about her drinking, but I don’t think she realizes to what extent. She also thinks that I can’t tell she has been drinking when she hides it. I have thought about telling her that I don’t want to get married until she gets control of her alcohol use, but I am having trouble figuring out how to do it without it being threatening/ nagging/ manipulating. I want to be honest with her and it feels like I should communicate why I am not ready to get married. She senses that I am hesitating, but I don’t think she has made the connection that it is related to her drinking. She has expressed that she is worried I will leave her for peripheral reasons, all of which I can see are directly linked to her alcohol use (for example, she worries I will leave because our sex life is lacking lately, which I know is because her sex drive is lower when she drinks and I don’t ask for it like I usually would because I am turned off by her breath and skin smelling of liquor). I am terrified that I will go about this the wrong way and be counterproductive to her recovery. How do I have this conversation with her without pushing her further away from me and closer to alcohol?
Thank you.
Thanks so much for this question, which is beautifully presented. To summarize, you are set to get married within weeks, but you are feeling uncomfortable about this commitment, given the fact that your Loved One has begun hiding her drinking again and has not made any real strides in addressing the problem. You have been in SMART Recovery meetings, getting hip to CRAFT (hooray!!!) and you are concerned about getting your message across without pushing her further away or giving her another reason to drink.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine and Isabel Cooney’s full response to kam132 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-can-i-call-the-wedding-off-gently
New to forum. How to apply CRAFT to the current relapse
Our son, 17, has been using weed and some pills (e.g., Xanax), but weed seems to be the primary substance. He has been in two residential programs (Nov 2019-Jan 2020) and another one (May – June 2020). He has been diagnosed with ADD, social anxiety and depression.
After his first residential program, he stayed sober for about two weeks. He was in an IOP but eventually got dismissed for failing three drug tests in a row. During the start of the lockdown during the pandemic, his behavior got more erratic and dangerous for him and for our familyy. He would not follow the protocols established by our city (he would continue to sneak out to buy and to party with people, none of who were wearing masks or socially distancing). His behavior became more violent (yelling, breaking things, pounding on the door when we would lock him out). Eventually we had him living in our partially furnished garage. When his behavior did not improve, we even had him sleeping in a tent in our backyard. We provided him with food and water and he had books for writing and reading. He still continued to sneak out (and just recently found that he was able to convince a woman that he met to spend the night with him in his tent).
Getting him into a residential program was hard during the pandemic. We finally found him one that seemed a better fit than the first one. The first one was almost exclusively dealing with the addiction. This second one was smaller, single-sex and took more seriously the notion of dual diagnosis. For about a year he was supposedly taking an anti-depressant but he never actually took it. During his most recent stay he started taking (for real) Prozac. He also agreed to have on hand anti-anxiety medication that he would take when he felt particularly anxious.
We knew that having him come home after his second residential stay was not a viable option. First, it was the site of so much of his drug seeking (and some selling). He knew too many people and places where he could get his drugs. Additionally, we have two younger daughters (13 and 10) who have been rightfully traumatized by his presence in the house. They are extremely skeptical that he has really dedicated himself to change and they are completely on edge at those times when he is in the house.
We arranged for him to join one of us to live in an away room with some relatives 6 hours from home. One parent would be there with him while the other would be with the girls. We switched so that no one parent would bear the brunt of it and to allow the kids to see each parent. There were two relapses (stealing money to buy vapes and wax pens) during the approximately 7 weeks that we were there.
After that, we rented an apartment for 4 months where our son would live with one parent. The apartment is about 30 minutes from our house. It allows us to visit home, but is far enough away to allow him to get away from the negative feelings and habits of his home. Additionally, we thought that he could learn some important skills that will be useful when he is 18 and (hopefully) living on his own. He could help with the set-up of the apartment, share the cooking, cleaning, etc.
During our time there, he has been doing his online school. He also got his first job (working fast food for 10-12 hours/week so that he can earn some money). We actively were using CRAFT. We were letting him take control of his learning, getting to his job on time, helping with the household chores, etc. He also found an AA sponsor (something that he did not find all that easy to do earlier since he never really connected with anyone before) so we would take him to meetings with his sponsor and to the AA meeting they would attend together. He is taking drivers education at his online school so we used the prospect of getting his license as something he could set as a doable goal. We celebrated his accomplishments, we encouraged him and did not come down too hard when he was not able to do some pretty basic things (he started to miss school deadlines, he would not get up for work on his own, and we had to wake him up for school or work, etc.). There was one incident where he said that he met some friends, took a few hits but then ran away because of his shame at relapse. We listened to him, congratulated him on making the hard choice and encouraged him to speak to his sponsor. We now get the sense that most of this story was not true. That same weekend we found that he had stolen about $50 from us.
After about a month of doing relatively well in the apartment, things deteriorated pretty fast. He stole from us ($40-60 a few times). He is particularly manipulative with this (he will become affectionate, open up about his struggles, thank us for our help, reach out to do an activity together, etc. right before he steals from us and sneaks off to buy drugs). He also sleeps a lot, refuses to deal with basic hygiene (washing, brushing teeth, etc.) is alternatingly withdrawn and angry, fails to turn in HW for class, etc. He has basically recreated his life from home in the apartment. He sneaks out at night to get drugs (or have them delivered) and sometimes goes to parties all night. He has provided our address and the entry gate code to several different dealers. Since he no longer has a key to the apartment, he leaves it unlocked when he goes out. When we are not there, he arranges for people to deliver drugs and invites people over.
We are struggling with the idea of him being homeless at 17 (during a pandemic) and establishing firm boundaries to allow ourselves to feel safe and to allow him enough the support that he will need to commit to sobriety. He does not believe that his drug use is that bad. He believes that we are overreacting over something that a lot of kids his age do. It is also hard that, just a few days ago, our main concern was that he was late with some schoolwork. Now, it seems unlikely that he will make the choices that he needs to make to pass his classes and graduate high school.
We are hoping to find a route forward that will allow him to avoid being homeless at 17 in a pandemic, feeling safe in our home and provide him with the boundaries and emotional support that he needs to tackle the hard road of sobriety.
Thank you for writing in, lbprof4. I believe your situation will sound familiar to a lot of our members and therefore this post may be helpful to many.
At 17, your son is using cannabis and benzodiazepines. He is slipping around all your efforts to get him stable and to not use drugs, despite your family’s following CRAFT principles. You have gone so far as to set up a tent in the backyard and to rent an apartment 30 minutes away, where one of you would trade off staying with your son. You wonder how you can protect your son from homelessness, especially during COVID, and get him to conform to house policies.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full article here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-his-addiction-is-tearing-our-family-apart
Good Morning
I am really struggling with hopelessness and self-blame for my son’s struggles, and yes I know the slogan. It doesn’t help.
I also can’t seem to envision a life for him with friends that practice abstinence. It seems impossible for a young person to build an entirely new life leaving all his childhood friends and most of our family behind.
While it sounds lovely I am just having a really hard time with how that’s really going to happen.
One day at a time ….
H
I have to tell you: I really understand feelings of hopelessness when it comes to dealing with Substance Use Disorder (SUD). I also remember that often, when I told people I was feeling this way, they took it upon themselves to try and convince me that I needed to have hope. People would go to great lengths about how there was “always hope,” and/or how “I should NEVER EVER give up hope”. People were often invested trying to persuade me that I was wrong.
One time, I confided in my primary care physician and she actually started yelling at me, “I DISAGREE with you, there is ALWAYS hope!” and I walked out of that office feeling worse than when I first walked in. It almost made me believe that losing hope was a crime and that I had no right to feel this way. Well Rhylie84, I am not going to try and change your mind. You are allowed to have no hope. Those are your feelings right now during this trying time, and that is perfectly okay.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to Rhylie84 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-its-okay-not-to-have-hope
Hi I am new here and have started on the videos but I really need help with how to get started.
My son is 21 has been taking drugs since the age of 15 however 2 years ago when living with his granddad he started taking cocaine and it led to him losing his job and girlfriend, getting into debt, losing weight, drinking and getting anxiety.
In Feb 2019 I had him come back to live with me and over the course of 4 to 5 months he came off cocaine completely, hardly drank and massively reduced his cannabis use. He then moved into a local hostel and started some courses he was great and completely turned himself around.
Unfortunately the end of May this year he went out with people he used to take cocaine with and ended up doing an all night session of drugs and alcohol. He then slept for 2 days and when he woke up he was like a completely different person. Angry, abusive… just a complete personality change.
The next 3 months led to him withdrawing from our family, getting into lots of debt, spending all his savings, losing his place at the hostel and losing all his friends and family due to him acting so different (delusions of grandeur, aggressive, paranoid, saying the most horrible things and above all not admitting any responsibility for anything that’s happened apparently it’s everyone else’s fault). He has been spoken to by 2 mental health crisis teams and spoke to some doctors but all have said he seems mentally OK and his behaviour is down to the drug use.
Recently we helped him get into a new place and we know we have done a lot of enabling but now we want to start trying to use CRAFT to bring about change. At the moment I have not been speaking to him at all as he can’t see what he’s doing and causing it seems crazy to us. His dad has been trying to help him but when they meet up he starts getting very verbally abusive blaming us for everything, saying we are terrible parents who have never done anything for him which is completely untrue if anything we’ve always done too much for him.
Also he keeps saying far-fetched things that are not true like delusions of grandeur and I have no idea how I’m supposed to react to them. I feel sorry for him as he’s really backed himself into a corner now he’s literally lost everything and everyone but I want to help him. Anyone with advice on where to start would be very much appreciated. I come from the UK by the way. Sorry for such a long post.
Welcome to Allies, sair33. So glad you found us, and so very glad to hear that you are ready to begin addressing your son’s addiction, and the communication issues that have arisen, with CRAFT.
Starting with the eLearning (video modules or eBooks if you prefer reading; Key Observations exercises) is just the right place to start but we understand that landing on this site and starting the eLearning doesn’t necessarily mean you know which direction to begin with.
I have two suggestions for you right now:
1) I’ve just published a post addressing another brand new member’s questions, and giving an overview of how CRAFT can help. It’s here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-were-living-through-hell-is-there-any-reason-to-ke
2) We offer a free phone consultation to all new members, with one of our Family Advocates. You can make an appointment on this page: https://alliesinrecovery.net/allies_advocate — I admit I’m not 100% sure if there’s a phone number provided for people who aren’t in the USA. Once you receive the automatic email confirming the appointment, please check that out. Laurie, who is taking the calls this week and next, has already told me she’d be happy to speak via Whatsapp, or on a video call (we use Zoom a lot).
Again, it’s really wonderful that you have found us, and that you are preparing mentally for a shift in approach. CRAFT, when applied consistently and thoughtfully, makes everyone feel better. I can vouch for that personally.
Thank you I will do as you advise x
My wife and I are thrilled to have discovered the CRAFT approach and this website. Thank you! My question is, as parents of our adult, married Loved One, whom we see only once every week or two, how can we fully leverage the CRAFT approach to have a positive influence on Loved One and our Loved One’s family ? Now for some background.
We are brand new to the group, but spent a few hours Monday reviewing the elearning modules. They are great! We are starting to get the picture. Our Loved One is married, with three children. We are increasingly concerned about both our Loved One’s physical health, mental health and family as substance use continues. We have been watching this decline in slow motion while we tried to get the Concerned Significant Others in our family on the same page about what was happening and how serious it is. Now that most family relationships have been fractured we are finally getting on the same page. We were in the process of planning a Johnston-type intervention, with the help of an interventionist, when we discovered these materials and taken a step back. We had been wrestling with how to actually accomplish an intervention without a lot of collateral damage and could not figure it out.
We do not have any history of bridge burning arguments, inflammatory you-messages, blaming, shaming, pressuring, etc. We simply have not discussed our concerns about substance use or apparent mental health challenges, believing that that would produce not only a ballistic reaction, but an atomic reaction. We have all just been walking on eggshells and trying to keep the peace, which of course ultimately has not worked. Unfortunately that leaves a big gap between our view of reality and our Loved One’s view of reality. We felt like we simply had to take action of some kind as things continue to implode–health challenges, not able to work, fractured family relationships based on our Loved One’s harsh criticism of other family members and other inappropriate behaviors that caused family members to feel unsafe around our Loved One. We have discontinued our tradition of family get-togethers with siblings and their families, but we have not shared with our Loved One the real reason for this discontinuation. We have not talked with our Loved One’s spouse about our concerns regarding substance use or mental health challenges, even though we knew that our Loved One’s spouse is a necessary part of any real solution. We did not want to go behind our Loved One’s back and did not want to put our Loved One’s spouse in a position to having to choose between us and our Loved One or in a position to be seen as “disloyal” by our Loved One. In addition, in all past altercations/infractions within the family, our Loved One’s spouse has aligned with our Loved One, in spite of how blatant violations of relationships and norms have appeared to all other Concerned Significant Others.
The CRAFT approach has given us a new vision of how we might venture into real conversation about our love, concerns, hopes, etc., but we realize that there is so much we don’t know about our Loved One’s situation–level and type of use (although it appears that it has been 24/7 use of one or more substances for over a year), triggers, feelings. benefits from use, down-side costs, etc. There is so much we need to learn and so much authentic relationship we need to restore, but we only see our Loved One every week or two for an hour or two, and we are not in Loved One’s life in those critical moments day in and day out to see and understand. Although as we build a more authentic and caring relationship, our Loved One could start sharing more with us even by phone or text between visits. We can see how powerful the CRAFT tools would be for our Loved One’s spouse, but how do we fully leverage the CRAFT approach as parents, not in our Loved One’s daily life, and not currently in a very authentic relationship? Thanks for any help suggestions offered.
Welcome, cyclist! Thanks so much for your detailed explanation of your situation, which gives lots of important details to help us better understand the layout.
You and your family are deeply concerned about your grown son, married with children, whose substance use continues to worsen, as do his physical and mental health. The family has largely remained silent on these topics of concern, and you’ve already underlined some of the pro’s and con’s.
The pro’s, according to your description, include never having had any “bridge-burning arguments,” no blaming, no shaming, etc. with your Loved One. This is indeed positive! Another enormous advantage is the recent coming together of the various family members whose concern is growing, in part because of the “fractured relationships” that your Loved One’s addiction has left in its wake. The more united your front can be, the more success you are likely to have in shepherding your Loved One forward.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine and Isabel Cooney’s full response to cyclist here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-weve-never-broached-the-subject-of-his-substance-u
It has been quite a while since I have said anything on this site. I have been dealing with drug and alcohol addiction with my son for about 15 or more years. He has been to therapy, he has been in jail, he has been sectioned but still continues to abuse drugs and alcohol. About three weeks ago I did a section 35 on him. I have done this before and it is always so difficult and emotional to do it. He wasn’t able to call for a few days but when he was allowed it was horrible. All he did was scream and yell at me and call me names and blame me for everything. I told him I wouldn’t speak with him if he was going to treat me like that and speak to me that way and to call me when he could talk to me in a civil way and I hung up. The next time he called, it was even worse and so I just said I’m not talking to you when you’re like this and hang up again. I didn’t answer his calls for a few times and one time my other son answered the phone and spoke with him. At this time he asked if I could send him applications for some of the residential treatment places. I looked the places up but I could not find any applications for any of them. I sent an email to one and I did get a response and she suggested that I call his counselor and talk with him because the referral has to come from the place that he’s at. That was the opportunity house and I believe either Gray’s or Gary’s house. My son did call this evening and I gave him the information that the referral has to come from the place he’s at and it should be done soon. He said his counselor isn’t cooperating with him and if he wants to get out in the 45 days or 50 days he doesn’t think that he’ll be able to get into those places on time. Has anyone ever had any experience with any of the places? I don’t believe the Phoenix house has a good reputation. So I’m just wondering if I should call his counselor and speak with him and tell him what I found out? This is the first time I put my foot down and said he cannot come back to this house. It’s probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever done but something has to change and doing the same thing that I have done in the past will most likely not work. I’d really like to see him go to one of the residential places but he told me he doesn’t think he has time to do that and so he is just gonna say he will go to a shelter so that he has a home plan and can get out of there. That scares me so much but I want to be strong and not have him come here right now. I have been trying to do things for myself but I am so depressed it’s hard to do anything. I guess what I’m asking is for some support and trying to make the right decision. Thank you
It is good to hear from you mlb2t. For those who haven’t been following mlb2t’s story, which you can do by clicking on her membername, the short of it is that her husband has had drinking issues, past tense, and her other son is abstinent from drugs now and has a serious mental illness he addresses with treatment. Her other son has been using actively for 15 years, as she mentions above. Two out of three are in recovery now. Can anyone imagine your situation times 3!? We’d wish this on nobody.
I’m determined not to make the same mistakes this time
mlb2t: you have made such strides in getting to this point with your son. When he has been in jail or is sectioned he tends to agree with plans like a sober house, but then somehow ends up squirrelled away in your house after being released. I hear the resolve in your voice. This time it is going to be different. You are reaching out for support to help you hold the line.
We are glad to help. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-finally-putting-my-foot-down-he-cant-come-home-
On this site I hear so much about meth and opiates but not much about crack cocaine. Why is that? That’s my loved ones drug of choice. But it’s not talked about….
Hello hopefaithlove. We’re ready to talk about crack cocaine. The topic just hasn’t come up and we have fewer members whose Loved Ones’ drug of choice is crack cocaine. What we write and publish is mainly determined by our members’ questions and concerns, which explains the limited posts on this subject on our blogs.
Crack is a derivative of the more expensive cocaine. Crack is cheaper, typically smoked rather than snorted, and produces a quicker high than cocaine. Follow this link for an exhaustive description of the drug from drugpolicy.org.
National databases combine cocaine and crack use…..
Read Dominique Simon Levine’s full response to hopefaithlove here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-lets-talk-about-crack-cocaine
My 25 year old son is using heroin, Xanax, adderall, cocaine and crack. When he runs out of money he will use Xanax and adderall. He refuses treatment. Went twice and relapsed immediately. He only went because of legal matters. He lives at home. Doesn’t have a car now since he crashed it…lucky to be alive or not kill someone else. I love him with all my heart… but the drugs have taken his soul. I feel like the drugs are the devil and removed his soul. If I kick him out the house .. where can he go? Has anyone experienced a loved one going to jail and jail time helped or not helped? I am so lost. He is supposed to take Zubsolv to help his cravings but he isn’t consistent. I feel like all he thinks about is how to keep getting his drugs. I am so afraid of losing him to death. I already lost him to drugs… is there any hope for my son and my family. I am so miserable and depressed. I don’t want to kick him out of the house… I want my son back. Right now my son isn’t himself. His cravings are out of control and he has a disease that is destroying his life and his family’s life. I wish he was sober, saving his money. Families that go through this are living in hell. This is truly hell and the devil has taken my son.
I can hear the hopelessness and despair that have moved in with you for the time being. Dear pleasehelpmeGod, we are so, so glad you landed on this site, in this community. There is admittedly much we cannot control in this life, but we are here to show you, and remind you, that there is also much you can regain control over. And yes, there is hope. Before I go on, take it from some of the thousands of members on this site:
“Thanks to Allies in Recovery, CRAFT and the podcasts, my loved one is starting treatment.” — PThasnohead, Allies member
“Thinking well has leveled my emotions dramatically. I have to say it worth every bit of work if it only had helped me. But I am so thankful for the part I have been able to do to help my husband too. So this is my encouragement to all here — that this insight and instruction can really work and change the dynamic of your life.” —E320, Allies member
Read my full response to pleasehelpmeGod here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-were-living-through-hell-is-there-any-reason-to-ke
Greetings, My husband has been using drugs for the past five or so years after having been clean for ten. He is currently 35 days into an inpatient rehab. He didn’t really have a choice about going (I finally held him to a boundary) but he and his therapist say he’s taking it seriously and working really hard. He has lied and manipulated me so much over the years (and bragged to others about how easy I am to manipulate) that I am very scared about him coming home, especially since the place he is in has offered me none of the family services they advertised: no education, no support groups, and most importantly no family therapy sessions. He says he is not ready to talk about what happened, so I don’t feel ready for him to come home and I want him to go to a sober living facility (which he says he is willing to do, but he is very unhappy about it). He is going to be discharged on Wednesday, and the inpatient facility has yet to help me find a sober living facility for him. What should I do? How do I try to find the right one on my own? Will they allow us to attend therapy together so we can work on rebuilding our relationship and trust?
How frustrating to see your husband relapse after a long period in recovery: ten years abstinent and now 5 years of using substances again.
Your husband’s earlier period of abstinence tells us he knows how to live life free of drugs or alcohol. This is very hopeful.
At this point in time, he has completed inpatient treatment and is likely back home. You are less than impressed with the treatment center, which provided none of the aftercare services they promised; this includes help with where your husband would live after discharge.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to carly143 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-didnt-want-him-to-come-home-but-now-hes-here
The reason for this post is to share an incident and check that I’m on track or not. I am really working on applying CRAFT to my husband when he drinks. Figuring it out successfully or not. Tonight, I was sure he was drinking while mowing. I went out and told him clearly I was leaving because he was drinking. That I was going out to eat, and I would be back before bed. He just stared at me without saying a word. So I left and he was silent as a drove away. Then about 20 minutes later he calls. He says I wasn’t drinking, that it was a water bottle. I was shocked and quickly apologized. I told him I was going to grab a snack and come home. When I got home he was gone. Now I’m sure he’s drinking and feeling guilty and blaming myself. Feeling like although I didn’t cause this I helped it to happen. Now should I stay up until he comes home or remove myself since I really expect he’s been drinking? I turn off all the lights and go to bed. I am so conflicted. If I helped to cause this, shouldn’t I be up to console him and encourage him when he gets home even if he’s been drinking? I feel really guilty and keep trying to reassure myself that it’s not my doing if he drinks. He doesn’t need to respond by drinking.
I wrestle with being in bed with all the lights off. I think he’s going to come home mad at me and a quick apology or chat will settle things down, I feel so guilty and upset with myself. Finally I get up and go into the living room and pretend to be asleep when he gets home. But I know it’s clear I was waiting up for him. What a cop out. He wants to talk when he comes home two hours later. But not about drinking or us or me, but about his night. He tells me details and says I drank sorry. I drank three beers. It was a bachelor party. I’m not sure if he’s sorry that he has to tell me, or sorry because he knows I don’t approve. He doesn’t seem sorry that he drank them. And there was no profit in me being there for him. So, even if I’m part of the reason he drinks in a particular situation, I need to apply CRAFT and remove myself when he drinks. He asks me right before bed do I want to talk. I say no but tomorrow I would like to talk. I feel like I finally have said what I should have all along. Tomorrow I will ask him why he’s sorry.
Thanks for writing in and sharing what happened. In a nutshell, you suspected your husband had been drinking, you acted in consequence, he denied it, you felt bad and went back, but he was gone, this time drinking (he confirmed it later). You felt you’d really messed up, perhaps even causing his drinking episode. The remorse and guilt is eating at you.
There’s actually a lot in your message that I want to address. Maybe first and foremost, it would be helpful for me to let you off the hook…
Read my full response to E320 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-youre-going-to-mess-up-the-rewards-sometimes
How can I stop feeling so angry, disappointed, betrayed and afraid from my 31 year old son for the life he’s living and choices he’s made? His credit cards are maxed out and my husband and I are trying to help him financially. Initially he decided to declare bankruptcy but last night he asked us to make his minimum payments on the cards. He recently admitted that he had a relapse after he got a DUI about a month ago. He also just found out that he has a 3 year old daughter . He says he’s trying to get sober on his own and refuses to go into treatment. He doesn’t have any health insurance . He’s been using suboxone that he buys on the street to help with detox and cravings.
We tell him we love him and we’re here to help in any way we can but it’s just so devastating to us. I have also lost another child to a drug overdose and feel like the saddest person in the world all the time.
Right now, you are grappling with feelings of anger, disappointment and betrayal based on your son’s choices as he’s struggling with Substance Use disorder (SUD). Dealing with the crisis and chaos brought on by SUD leads to very difficult feelings and emotions for all family members. You have the added complication of grieving the loss of another child to overdose. This does not just double the emotional turmoil; it intensifies everything exponentially.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to mariecat here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-lost-another-child-to-sud-im-too-sad-to-move-for
Hello, I would like understand more about alcohol hangovers related to “when he’s using” and “not using.” I’ve read a few things on the blog. Am I correct that a hangover is really a time he’s “using,” because the alcohol is still affecting him? I seem to get this idea. This surprised me and I feel it could really help me with my timing on talking to my husband or not. And also how I direct my emotions. I’d like to know symptoms besides stereotypes, he’s hungover and what to watch out for. I know I need to think and communicate better here. Maybe there are some cue words I could search on the blog already written.
Thank you for direction and insight.
E320, We’re glad you’ve honed in on this idea: How you define “Use” (when applying CRAFT) must include:
1) the times when your Loved One is preparing to use, where nothing you could do would likely pull them off-course towards their goal
2) the times they’re actively using, and
3) the times they are coming down off the substance: withdrawing, or hung over.
This is indeed key! You will want to *disengage* and *remove rewards* (Module 6) any time that the substance (in your husband’s case, alcohol) has its grip on him. And this includes when he’s gearing up to drink, or feeling the effects of having drunk.
We recently published a post that goes into these notions a bit more:
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-i-wake-up-hes-done-using-how-can-i-remove-rew
As for signs and symptoms, here is a list of what to look out for, from the Mayo Clinic:
– Fatigue and weakness
– Excessive thirst and dry mouth
– Headaches and muscle aches
– Nausea, vomiting or stomach pain
– Poor or decreased sleep
– Increased sensitivity to light and sound
– Dizziness or a sense of the room spinning
– Shakiness
– Decreased ability to concentrate
– Mood disturbances, such as depression, anxiety and irritability
– Rapid heartbeat
Here is the full article: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hangovers/symptoms-causes/syc-20373012
Good for you for starting to look into this more deeply and asking yourself how/what you can modify in order to be more effective with CRAFT. Keep us posted.
Thank you so much for your recent responses. The post on when he’s done using and this information is so helpful. I reviewed module 6 and the one on relapse too. There was much I didn’t get the first time when I was in such a panic.
Here at home we are doing so well. My husband now drinks very rarely. For me, though, I noticed I needed to firm up myself so I wasn’t foolishly optimistic or nervous. Two extremes I had been swaying between.
I feel so much more prepared for whatever comes my way, so I don’t need to be afraid. Wow, what a great adjustment. I’m confident in how I’ll think and respond if needed, so I can enjoy the progress, support my husband and really take care of myself each day. Thinking well has leveled my emotions dramatically. I have to say it worth every bit of work if it only had helped me. But I am so thankful for the part I have been able to do to help my husband too.
So this is my encouragement to all here — that this insight and instruction can really work and change the dynamic of your life.
Hello,
I am new to the site, but excited to be a part of it! I work as a child therapist for a local government health office. I mention this because even though I KNOW so much about what it going on with my dad, I don’t know how to get through to him.
My dad is 63 and lives with my grandma who is 83. He was supposed to be the caretaker for her, but he is not able to do that because he drinks constantly. His health has gotten worse due to falls when he is drunk. He will go on benders for a week at a time and end up going to the ER for hydration and electrolytes. HIs behavior has become very erratic, bizarre and mean. No elder abuse to my grandma, even though he tells her to shut up and is rude. He has refused treatment, counseling and his local doctor clinic has booted him due to no shows.
Welcome to Allies in Recovery, natefingerson! We are very excited for you to be a part of it!
Thank you so much for sharing some of the details of your situation with your dad. As you are quite new here, there’s a good chance you have not been able to plunge into the Learning Modules quite yet. That’s where we ask members to begin before using the Discussion Blog for guidance.
The Learning Modules will give you the core of the CRAFT method: the how’s, the when’s, the why’s, and the why not’s. https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=1&s=1
On the Discussion Blog you’ll be able to follow how families are applying CRAFT to their particular situations, and pose your own questions. The topics tags (running down the righthand sidebar) are there to guide your reading.
In the meantime, please don’t hesitate to go to your Public Profile and add some of the above information about your family situation. This will help the editorial team to write posts for you in the future. https://alliesinrecovery.net/profile
We look forward to hearing from you again soon once you’ve had the chance to begin absorbing some of the teachings and have some more specific questions for us.
Again, welcome to Allies!
What are you supposed to do if the person only uses when they’re not at home or after I’ve gone to sleep? All that leaves me with is being nice for the very limited time they do spend at home. Which I’ve been doing for weeks now, and it hasn’t changed a thing. They don’t even bother trying to hide their substances (whether it be remnants or it’s yet to be consumed), and it seems like the list of substances just keeps growing. Finding these things and not being able to say something about it makes me feel sick to my stomach. It just feels like I’m ignoring what’s going on, which is basically enabling?
With your question, you are addressing one of the keystones of CRAFT: the definition of use.
When they start practicing CRAFT, family members often find themselves unsure of how to react in the moment. Many factors can get in the way; having trouble differentiating use from non-use is one of them.
Remember, you’ve just discovered a new set of guidelines and it’s only natural that it take some time for you to feel at ease with it. I believe your question will resonate with many of our members.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Diet Lettuce here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-i-wake-up-hes-done-using-how-can-i-remove-rew
My question is;
Does Allies provide access to any counselors with foundation in CRAFT that could work with a couple struggling to communicate with one another well, yet both longing for better decision-making – ? (Understanding this would be a service with a fee – that may/may not be covered by insurance.)
We have agreed on this much, with support from our daughter, that we are stuck in repetitive patterns that break down, and believe a 3rd party could help us gain perspective. Right now we are not communicating clearly and calmly enough to identify and taking the steps we need to / conveying clear boundaries / to be the best we can be for our LO.
Thank you.
I have been reviewing the ‘Levels of Treatment’ link – really helpful. It emphasizes the need to have a professional assess the best fit for LO – and this makes so much sense.
Do you recommend putting together a list of professionals who can do this work to then share with LO during a window of relatively open communication? And do you recommend an individual physician with this specialty as best option, or having a range?
I imagine I am not alone in being so fearful of screwing up this step – and yet my husband and I have to dive in. Last winter, we requested that our LO consider watching a TED Talk about the Sinclair Method – which he agreed to. After some delays, he did engage; we helped him (at his request) find a distance provider who gave him the prescription after some required steps. He took the medication as prescribed to the best of our knowledge for a period of months, and his alcohol use diminished considerably. In recent months that has fallen apart. There have been prior times when our son has agreed to take a step as well – but things are becoming more acute we feel.
Our loved one is on Medicaid in RI.
Thank you for any guidance,
You pose two questions, Mountain Laurel. The first is whether to point your Loved One to a professional for an evaluation. If your Loved One is resistant to getting help, you may have only an occasional window of opportunity (Module 8) to pitch your planned and scripted request (Module 8) and engage your son into treatment. If the evaluator is prepared to help with accessing the treatment he or she suggests, then this could be your first move.
With a Loved One who’s resistant though, you may need to push the treatment itself; within which an evaluation can take place. There is still no harm in putting a medical person who can evaluate your son on the list. The words of a doctor, with their position of authority, can cut through resistance. So put it all on the list, give him choices, and subtly push what gives you the biggest bang for your buck. If he is more willing to get back on Naltrexone (the Sinclair Method) than he is to see someone new for an assessment, let’s get him back on Naltrexone first.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Mountain Laurel here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-we-need-help-with-the-treatment-options-list
Hi
My husband is in treatment for substance abuse disorder (alcohol). I have two sons aged 13 and 15. Do you know of resources either for them or for me to help them navigate this situation? I know about Alateen but am wondering about something in the CRAFT model.
Thanks!
While we certainly would not suggest training your kids in the CRAFT method or putting any sort of expectation or responsibility on their shoulders for effecting change in the family or turning their dad’s addiction around, we do believe that letting them in on your strategy can be helpful (as their age and maturity permit).
Here is the response from Dr. David Scherer, who works with us and was instrumental in the early studies of CRAFT at the University of New Mexico:
Read our full response to Alaska71 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-drinking-again-and-anger-is-the-name-of-the-ga
Hi,
I need help and feel at a loss. Earlier this summer my husband entered intensive outpatient rehab for alcohol misuse. His drinking had been getting progressively worse over the past 2-3 years and culminated in a very drunken night where he was beligerent and verbally abusive to me and our 15 year old son. A couple of weeks later he entered outpatient treatment. He attended for about a month when there was a Covid exposure and everything moved online. He has attended the program sporadically since then. He has been attending different online support groups with Smart Recovery and a different organization that I can’t remember the name of. But since he stopped going to his outpatient treatment regularly, he has told me that he has started drinking again. He feels that he is not an alcoholic and that he can handle one beer a night. I disagree with him but tried not to freak out. He also is saying that the family has provided him with no support and that we are blaming him for everything. I have repeatedly told him that everything is not his fault and have tried to own my side of things. I am in my own therapy and we also attend couples therapy together. I also am almost done with all the modules on this site. However, he says that he is all alone and that we are doing nothing to support him. To add to the mix, my older son is 15 and very angry at his father. Recently, he has had some angry outbursts and broken a window. After he broke the window, he broke down and told me that he thinks that everything is his fault and he is totally to blame for all the problems in our family. Of course, I told him that this was not true but he is still blaming himself. The tension between my son and husband is terrible. I don’t know what to do. My son started therapy today. I am worried about my family and I am worried about my son. He has said and done some terrible things but he is also only 15. My husband is very angry with him and doesn’t/can’t connect my son’s behavior with some of the painful moments caused by my husband’s drinking. Any advice would be helpful.
It was hard to breathe as I read through your comment. You are close to being in physical danger. If you thought differently and skipped Module 2, please take 20 minutes after reading this, if you can, and look through the video segments and Key Observations exercises for Module 2. (It’s faster to download the ebook and read it on the screen).
The loss of solid, structured in-person treatment has caught so many Loved Ones in the midst of early recovery. We have lost many to relapse, some are homeless, and many families are shouldering this additional burden.
Read our full response to Alaska71 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-drinking-again-and-anger-is-the-name-of-the-ga
I would like to read the post about negative talk when he’s not drinking. Can you give me the link, please.
Thank you.
Hi E320! Is this the post you were referring to? https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-cant-seem-to-get-out-of-the-negative-talk
Also feel free to check out the topic: Negative Talk https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=90
Thank you. This is what I was looking for.
Perfect, I’m so glad!
There are indeed many topics to browse through, perhaps too many… but please know that the list is to your right, on the sidebar of all of our blogs. They will each bring you to a collection on the given topic/theme.
My son is avoiding me. He lives in a motel after getting kicked out of his house by his significant other . Should I continue to text/call even though most of the time he doesn’t answer? I go back and forth with my emotions around it . I get scared and think the worst of him coming closer everyday to death from OD. Yesterday I spent the day with his 15 yo daughter. At the end of day I was so angry at him for not contacting his children and who are suffering the consequences of his using. I’m feeling overwhelmed with this situation that’s been going on for over five months. I just started the modules which are helpful. I’m struggling with my emotions around it and want to get him into treatment soon. I know it’s not up to me.thanks, Diane
You’re in a really tough spot right now and it sounds like coping with difficult emotions and not having any answers are really weighing on you.
When there are children involved, as moms and grandmas we really take on the emotional burden for everyone. In what you wrote, I can hear a lot of fear about what might happen, emotions dueling with your unconditional love for your son, and resentment regarding what the family is going through. You are also trying to determine what your capabilities are.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to dede here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-keep-texting-him-when-he-doesnt-answer
How do I go forward with my adult son? Aged 43. Currently homeless. Lived with me until I asked him to leave last February. I let him return in August after a month in jail on non-drug related charges. He got a job but worked only 3 months, refused to be accountable for his money. He got so drugged that his personality changed even his voice. I ended up having a melt down making me realize that I needed help. I’m in therapy. He has been using meth, cocaine and smoking weed. He went to Rehab in May but didn’t complete the program. He has 4 children, that I helped him raise (youngest 3 are teenagers). 20 years of addiction plus diagnosed with psychotic disorder bi-polar. Has services through local mental health facility when he will take advantage of them.
20 years of Substance Use Disorder and battling a mental illness is a long time. I know it can feel insurmountable and hopeless a lot of the time. I can also hear that you feel you may have to come to a crisis point. I also noticed some real positive points in your comment. Often times it isn’t until things become incredibly difficult that we make change. It sounds like having a melt-down and then reaching out for help for yourself was incredibly positive. Not only is this an important step for you in taking care of your needs, but it also great modeling for your son and your 4 grandchildren. Getting you as healthy as possible, both physically and mentally, is of the utmost importance for everyone.
It is also wonderful that you have come to the Allies in Recovery website. By now you’ve probably had a chance to watch the video modules and do the Key Observation activities that are presented alongside them. As you start practicing CRAFT with your son, you may want to watch the video modules again. What you learn from them today, with the struggles and perspective of yesterday, is different from what you’ll learn from them two weeks from now, with the teachings and developments of tomorrow. CRAFT will allow you to stay engaged with them and learn how to communicate, come in closer when they’re not using and step away when they’re using, and set healthy, effective boundaries.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to Motherof2 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-after-20-years-of-use-i-dont-know-what-to-do-anymo
I have a daughter who is 20 now. She got involved with a 37-year old heroin trafficker who spent 15 years in and out of jail. Growing up she was mentally disabled and borderline intellectual functioning. I took her to children’s hospital in Boston for services, when she was becoming an adult I got all services in place. He convinced her there was nothing wrong with her and she started turning against me. She would chase me in the house and when I shut the door she put holes in it. She would get medication from the doctor and she would sell it. I learned he would get her Percocet from there she shot up heroin. I went to the doctor, told him not to give her medicine, he did not listen. I begged her social workers to help me; no one listened because she would tell them different lies about me. I wanted to save her. I was told by management at my apartment complex if she lives here I will get evicted (she put holes in seven doors). She went to live with my other daughter who kept her in the basement isolated from everyone but this Tuesday I got a knock at the door from outreach police officers because she was arrested. They are giving her the chance to go to the lead program for drug addiction or go to jail. Her and her boyfriend gave them my address thinking they would not find her. I gave them the address but I am devastated. All the years I put in to help her and she turns to this man. The police gave me this website to help me cope . How do I ever forgive her for lying and stealing from her mom who was her biggest fan? From what I heard her and her boyfriend are on the run again from the police, he is afraid of going back to jail…
Dear phughes,
How completely upsetting the situation is with your daughter. She has been with a man much older than she, who introduced her to drugs. They are now on the run from the police.
I’m glad you found your way to this site. Families should not be going through things like this alone, or without professional guidance!
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to phughes here:
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-her-drug-dealer-boyfriend-is-brainwashing-her
My 30 year old son is home after six weeks of rehab for mental health issues and cocaine abuse. He came home super motivated and sharing his concerns and feelings but that has slowly deteriorated. COVID has a serious impact on him as he is now back in a restricted interaction with others and has again reverted to staying in bed for long periods of time.
I have really tried to follow your suggestions but communication is really hard with him now and I am becoming resentful as I do not know how to motivate him to return to following his routine he had established in rehab.
He is living at home and has no employment. I am trying to follow natural consequences for no money and have no idea where he is getting his money from. He has no credit cards.
Should I request he move out? Tough during COVID as shelters are very restricted right now.
I would really appreciate your insight. Thank you.
Dear Happ1ness,
Your son completed a 6-week program just as the COVID shutdown started. He did well in treatment but he’s now home without recovery support and you are witnessing his slide back into a shaky state. It is so incredibly unfortunate to watch our Loved Ones’ motivation sink as treatments are scaled back and the world of support goes online.
The treatment program should have created an aftercare program that includes online help. If you haven’t done so, please look in our supplement for an up-to-date list of online resources for people with addiction.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Happ1ness here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-this-early-recovery-instability-or-is-he-headed
I am from the Netherlands and a new Allies in Recovery member since a few months. Allies in Recovery is helping us a lot but I need to share this with you, hoping for a little bit of support.
My son (28) has been recovering for 3 years, with ups and downs. He went to a clinic twice and came to live with me for six months after a serious relapse. Mental health care started during the COVID period and is now treated on a daily basis, but he still falls back every few weeks or months. His request for help is therefore based on relapse prevention. Now I really need the right strength and help for myself to continue to support him in a healthy way while also taking care of myself. Recently, he would like to return to his independent living space, which also fits into his treatment plan. My experience and concern make it difficult to work well with him. I know a relapse is possible again and again and I also know that now I have to pull my hands back because he is getting help. That life in my house doesn’t stop him from drugs, on the contrary, his relapse became too comfortable.
I’m now trying to make the natural effects work, withdraw the rewards when he is using, and reward him when he is clean. We agreed to let me know in the morning that he’s okay and then we’ll leave each other in peace. He was not available this morning and I am pretty sure he is not good. I went to his house to make sure he is safe and not dead. (safety first) He was under the influence and several drugs were in his room. Previously I would arrange everything for him. I would throw the drugs away and give him food and a bed to recover. Now I woke him up, he was not very bad, confronted him with what I found and urgently asked him to make the right choice now, told him that I can’t help him now and that I don’t throw anything away for him, this should be his own choice. I told him that when he is sober again, I will be there for him and he will be more than welcome. I noticed that I was very calm and no longer in a panic as before, but also feel that I can no longer support it when he is using drugs, I am so tired and sometimes so desperate that it is no longer possible. This was my response this morning with support from CRAFT. The risk is that he will keep the drugs for a later time, but he makes that choice himself. I don’t think I can save him from that because if he really wants it, he will buy. I left and told him that I love him and that I will be there for him when he’s sober. A few hours later, he called crying that he felt so burdened and guilty that he wanted to go to his appointment for treatment, and asked me to bring him or he would be late. I did that because I assume again, although being late for the appointment is a natural consequence of his drug use, I want to support him when it comes to help.
And we made an appointment to talk and rest at my house tonight. I appreciate that because I think I can always be there for him when he’s not using. He feels very guilty towards me, but that doesn’t help him. I’m afraid the treatment will send him away if he continues to relapse and I can’t keep following him in this endless process. At the same time, I really want to stay in contact with him, so I can be there when it’s needed. His motivation is there and I reward him for that, but his addiction is also erratic. He asked me not to save him if he falls, that he should do it himself. How hard should he fall, how can I remain loving and confident?
My mantra is usually: Everything that happens now is exactly what is needed now. For a reason. Not knowing what the future holds. I feel that thinking in a way like; what if … or imagine if this or that would happen … scares me more and doesn’t help. What else can I do, am I doing it right?
Thank you. This is such a good account of your thoughts and feelings in real time as you wrestle with your son’s actions and how to react.
An example of CRAFT in action – the “Morning Check-in”
You confronted your son when he didn’t respond to the morning check-in. YES, you are right, safety first. You went over to check on him. You were calm. You didn’t do as you would have in the past, throwing out the drugs, fixing him a meal, fluffing the pillows
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Bimba here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-hard-should-he-fall
I am so grateful to have found Allies in Recovery, and I am finding your website extremely helpful. My adult son has been struggling with opioid dependency for several years and has been in a variety of treatment programs. He recently tried Vivitrol injections for 3 months and then stopped them and relapsed. He began a methadone program about 3 weeks ago. He is self-employed but not able to fully support himself at this time; what he brings home basically pays for his food and gasoline. He is living in my home, rent and utilities free, as he tries to move forward with his recovery; I am paying his clinic fees (grateful to be able to do so).
I am attending online SMART Friends and Family meetings, working through the video and exercise modules on the Allies in Recovery site, reading recommended literature, and trying to practice communication skills recommended by this website and by SMART. I want my support to be appropriate and respectful of his recovery journey. The problem I have is that I live three hours away. It is hard for me to tell if he is continuing (albeit in a much modified form) to use. (I think he can still use even on this methadone program.) I’m not sure how to apply rewards/withdraw rewards or even if I can from a distance. Do you have advice for long-distance support? Thank you for all you do for us.
Kudos to you for all the work you are putting in to learn about CRAFT and how to apply it to your situation. Your son has been on a path of attempting various recovery options: multiple treatment programs, the vivitrol shot and now methadone. He has been successful for a time, proof that he is learning what will work for him. Like many other families, you wonder how to apply CRAFT effectively when he is not living close by.
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to Saja1 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-cant-tell-if-he-is-using-or-not
Background: 30 years of marriage with active drinking, from 2010 to 2017 my loved one was drinking 15 to 20 beers a day. For most of those years I believed I had no influence. I “let go and let god”. I worked on being calm and seeing the good. I allowed myself to be pulled into arguments in the middle of the night, telling myself that I would have a nap and a bubble bath (self-care) the next day because I can. Being woken up in the middle of the night, and having jolly or argumentative drunken conversations was an OK way for me to live.
Then in 2017 my loved one went to treatment, and has been sober on and off since then. I have been practicing CRAFT and am so grateful for it. July 2019 to March 2020 we had sobriety, my loved one was enthusiastic about the change. I clung to the happiness of my new life. I was proud to see that my changes (as recommended by CRAFT) made such a big difference.
But the last few months have been hard. Last night he told me all the ways that drinking is ok for him now… the kinds of things he has always said when drinking.
Even though I know my loved one is unlikely to go down the path of the last ten years, and he is on a path to recovery, I cannot tolerate these conversations and the lies. I feel so hopeless today because he is drinking again that I don’t even feel the ability to care for myself and my thoughts are extreme. I spent the night feeling regret for my life, anger at his selfishness, a neediness to feel loved and respected, and I don’t want to have compassion for him right now. I don’t want to be kind. I know my thoughts are self-destructive.
Today he will be sober, and I just don’t have it in me to reinforce this. I think it’s ok for me to feel what I feel right now, to let him deal with his very stressful personal situation on his own. I think it’s ok for me to allow myself to withdraw for now.
How do I find the words, if the opportunity arises, to communicate to him how I feel? And to communicate it, not to try and manipulate him, but just to speak the truth. I think my tendency is to either say nothing, pretend I’m fine all day, or to talk to him from a place of trying to manipulate him to care about me or feel guilty for what he has done to me.
How do I practice self-care, when I know what self-care is… I know that even lighting a candle and putting on spa music while I work is self care…. but I am not motivated to do anything but wallow right now.
We really feel your pain right now, blueskies. CRAFT asks a lot of the family member. Results are undeniable, both in the studies that have been done and in our experience with families. But there is simply no way the family member can always do the right thing, say the right thing, practice or self-care 24/7. We are real humans and we are doing the best we can.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to blueskies here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-dont-want-to-have-compassion-for-him-right-now
In module 6, what would be considered natural consequences?
The easiest way to think about natural consequences is to ask yourself: what would happen to my Loved One if I didn’t step in or step away?
Would she oversleep?
Would he lose his job?
Would he wake up on the floor where he passed out from drinking?
Would she get arrested?
Would he not be able to make bail and stay locked up?
You would allow the natural consequence if
a) it doesn’t hurt you too much to let it happen
b) the consequence isn’t dangerous to your Loved One or others.
I hope this helps.
Hello everyone,
I was wondering if I can get advice about my 16 years old boy. I am worried sick about his alcohol and drug use but not sure if it falls into the category of addiction, or if I am reacting too much to the situation…Is he just experimenting? I am confused as you can see…
He started smoking pot a year ago and since, he took drugs about 30 times (mostly pot, wax, and he tried once mushrooms and LSD). He also likes to drink.
He doesn’t see his use as a problem like I do and our relationship is a daily struggle. I asked him to stop, talked to him about the risks of using drugs and the benefits of being drug free (more freedom, more trust from the parents) but he is not receptive, he minimizes the risks, he shows a big lack of judgement (he is convinced that the drugs he uses are safe, 100% clean, that the dealer providing the drugs would not sell them bad stuff…). He also told me that he likes the feeling of being high; it’s fun, it’s relaxing…he does not sound like someone ready to stop.
He has a new group of friends since last year and they are the ones using with him and providing him the drugs. Everytime he wants to see those friends, my heart stops, I know they are bad news but I feel powerless, he won’t stop seeing them.
To help him, I wish he would meet and talk with a counselor about his use of drugs/alcohol…but he doesn’t want to. I am very very tempted to force him to do so, even if I know it’s far from ideal.
Also, I would like to know if from your experience it is a good idea to punish the use of drugs by removing privileges: not giving him permission to take driving lessons until he stops using, not having permission to do sleepovers at friends, talking to his friends’ parents about their drug use. Everytime I give consequence, it backfires, he gets of course very frustrated and it probably makes him want to use more. But I can’t let him continue using without doing anything about it. I feel stuck.
I am curious also about options of rewards that work well with teenage boys, I am at a loss to figure out what can be rewarding to my son? He his always in his room, doesn’t want to do anything with me or his father, limits the interaction with us…so we have pretty much 30 minutes maximum during the day to interact with him, and often he is not receptive.
It’s very tough for me to identify when he has been using or not, he hides it pretty well, so it’s tough to adjust my reaction accordingly (rewards vs consequence)
Your advice is welcome, thanks for reading me 🙂
Dear mamancatou,
Your 16 year-old son is mainly using cannabis, but is also experimenting with alcohol. You are understandably concerned, but is it addiction? Your son is showing signs of heading towards possible trouble: he locks himself in his room, has a new set of friends, and there is a growing distance between you.
Without answering the question of whether this is addiction or a less serious phenomenon, you can use CRAFT to set your boundaries and intentions for him. You are raising good questions. Your clear messaging to him will push the responsibility for his actions back onto him. You can’t force your son to stop but you can create the conditions that will help him to think about his decision to use or not use in the moment.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-he-too-young-to-be-considered-addicted
Dear people, I am a new member since today but I am from the Netherlands. Is this a problem? The English language is okay for me, but I may not be able to participate in certain options or conversations. Or is everything possible online and worldwide?
I am already happy with the support and knowledge that I read after all those long years without proper understanding and help for myself. Thanks for this great opportunity so far.
Dear Bimba,
Welcome to Allies in Recovery. We are glad to have you. It is so nice to have members from different countries on board!
What we offer is fully available online, making it accessible to anyone, anywhere.
I encourage you to schedule a free call with an Allies in Recovery advocate who can get you started on our site and on our methodology. I’m sure you can find a time that works for both of you, even though time zones can be tricky.
It’s great that you have already found support and valuable information here.
You should take some time to watch the Learning Modules, these will give you a clear idea of what CRAFT is and of how to practice it. It will also provide you guidance on how to stay safe and take care of yourself through all this.
The Discussion Blog, the Sanctuary Blog as well as our Resource Supplement are all good places to start, too. On our different blogs, where articles are sorted by topics, you might be especially interested in the topic entitled “teens & substance abuse”, your son being a young adult.
After making a good start on the Modules, you should feel free to post a question on the Discussion Blog if you find yourself in need of counsel regarding CRAFT, communication with your son, treatment options or anything that comes to mind.
Thank you so much for writing in, it is heartening to read that you have already found some answers to your questions. We are looking forward to reading about you and your son’s journey as you keep interacting with the site and making the most of the resources available to you here.
Hello,
My partner has relapsed at least 4 times during lockdown. The last time was really bad and fortunately he sought out help through narcotics anonymous. He has done some zoom meetings online and met a couple of sponsors, this is a huge step for him and for our relationship to be able to move forward.
The one thing I struggle with is the lies that he’s told during his relapses. I feel like I know exactly what happened and what he took but he won’t tell me the truth about it.
Should I just let it go, wanting to know the truth about what he took and him admitting that to me, because he’s getting help and has admitted he relapsed but won’t tell me about it, is that really important now?
I do find it hard not knowing the truth but I equally don’t want to have any negative impact on his recovery.
Am I being selfish?
Please help as I’m really struggling to know how to handle it.
rachaeltwin,
First off, we are thrilled for your partner, and you, about his recent progress and participation in meetings, getting a sponsor, etc. As you said, this is HUGE, and we all know that this represents a big, difficult step for our Loved Ones. We’re so heartened for you both. As you said, this is very helpful (or will be), in allowing your relationship to evolve.
Secondly, you are of course not being selfish, wanting your partner to be forthcoming and honest— it’s one of the basics of respectful human interaction! Your wanting and needing that makes perfect sense to all of us here.
That being said, your partner is in the very early stages of recovery, it’s been just weeks since he started seeking help after 4 relapses.
In our experience, and that of many of the families on this site, Loved One’s “bad” behaviors won’t necessarily stop just because they’ve stopped using.
We’ve all heard the phrase “recovery is a process” — and we repeat this phrase so often because recovery is still so misunderstood by so many of us. As badly as we would like for our Loved One to flip a switch and go back to being the person we knew and loved and appreciated so much, with all their best facets, this simply doesn’t, and can’t, happen overnight.
Learning to become – or return to being – a mature, respectful adult with good communication habits (including honesty, and anger management…) is likely to take a while.
One big stumbling block for so many families on this site is honesty – and what to do with the lies. As a general rule, we really discourage our family members from asking questions that will require the Loved One to have to respond honestly about their use, their relapse, etc. This is too hard for most of our Loved Ones unless they are well on their way to recovery. And in fact they will most likely give you signs that they are ready to talk more openly, when they are. Until then, as frustrating as this is, you may be setting yourself up for more tension, or more lies, which is their go-to behavior when feeling cornered.
This being said, you ARE allowed to let him know when it hurts!!
Please try to do so with ‘I’ statements, which will honor your feelings, as well as allow him to hear you without feeling targeted. See more on this in Module 4 on Communication.
So this is sort of a long answer but the short answer is, Yes, you should let it go – as you’re able.
We’re not perfect and CRAFT is about recentering and tweaking our communications on a day-to-day, moment-to-moment basis, to facilitate your Loved One’s recovery, and move towards a better scene between the two of you. We make mistakes too, we sometimes relapse to our old, unproductive communication habits, but we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, apologize if we’re able, and move on.
What will allow you, dear rachaeltwin, to come back to this kinder, more compassionate communication with your Loved One (because it is work for most of us to be this fair, this nice, this understanding!) is granting yourself self-care.
Each and every day, finding a few minutes (or more if you can swing it) to do what feels centering for you. To slow down your breath, calm your thoughts, take a load off.
We devote an entire Learning Module (7) to these skills, and have created an entire blog (the Sanctuary — it should be your best friend) to self-care…why?
Because it is what allows our family members to achieve wonders with their Loved Ones. And because your Loved One needs you to be solid, and centered, as much as possible, to be a real support during his recovery. And because now that he is starting to focus on himself, you can relax a little and put your focus back on yourself a bit more. You deserve it.
We are rooting for both of you. Keep working the program, you are doing so great, asking all the right questions. And don’t forget, it’s not selfish to want to be treated optimally. For now, you will be the one to do that for yourself. And we all hope that your Loved One will one day soon be able to do it for you, too. In the meantime, lean on us.
Thank you SO much for your reply.
It means the world to have some help and advice and communication for myself. It can feel so scary and alone when all you want to do is help your loved one get better.
I really appreciate and understand and fully take on board your
comments. I feel much better.
Alone is one thing you are not!! What you’re going through is so hard but we are thousands strong on this site, and we get it.
Please keep reaching out when needed. So glad the recommendations felt right to you. Take good care.
When they tell you no one can help me till I want the help. What can u do? Especially cause an 8 yr. Old is involved.
Blondie613,
Great question. Your Loved One is leaning on one of those bits of ‘cultural wisdom’ that we hear a lot. It sort of goes hand in hand with the misguided belief that ‘There’s nothing you can do to help, they’ve got to hit rock bottom first.’
The CRAFT method has been well studied and well practiced. The researchers found the same thing we have found in our work with families. This is an important distinction:
We indeed cannot make another person want to get better or want to go into treatment.
HOWEVER — by learning CRAFT, the family gets trained to:
a) build back a bridge of trust and compassion,
b) pay close attention to those ups and downs in your Loved One, those moments when they express despair (“a dip”) or the occasional moments that they express a desire for change (“a wish”), and
c) when you witness that change talk, you come in with your list of treatment options.
So, your Loved One is right – but so are you. He/she doesn’t need to know what you’re doing, as you become well-versed in CRAFT. This is for them, and for your family. They’ll thank you one day, or they won’t.
But our experience shows that once you really start watching for them, there will be regular moments (they may be micro-moments) of opportunity for you to come in with a gentle, helping hand.
Our experience has also shown that the ‘planned conversation’ (see Module 8) does not always result in the Loved One agreeing to treatment right away. Several tries may be necessary. But it’s not wasted energy. Each time, you are planting a seed in his/her head.
Our suggestion would be to keep working the Learning Modules, focusing for now on that most important question that will guide your actions every time you’re in contact with them: Are they using right now? (Module 6) or Are they not using right now (Module 5).
The program does take at least 6-8 weeks to really get the method under your belt. Keep up the learning, keep asking us questions as they come up, and keep the faith!
Regarding the 8-year-old, it is essential that the child, as well as yourself, be in no physical danger, for CRAFT (our program) to be appropriate.
Beyond that, you must use your best judgement as to keeping the child out of the thick of it, making sure the child (at 8 this should be doable) has a basic – if simple – understanding of your Loved One’s struggle with substance use, and that his/her needs are being met.
It is of course more complicated with a child in the mix. We’ve written about this on the blog (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=102).
Depending on your situation, time with the child can be seen as a ‘reward’ in times of non-use. But taking the child out of the equation during times of use can be more complicated.
Let us know if we can be of further guidance. Thanks for writing in!
Our 24 year old daughter left home 1 year ago to start a relationship with a 26 meth/heroin addict, felon. She has become a meth addict.
They are both living in a camper in a junkyard. We are having limited contact with her and don’t know where she is. Since researching and educating ourselves we are learning better how to encourage her to accept help. Our question is how – when we have limited contact, phone calls are rare, texting is mostly our contact, are we to know when she’s using or not using to respond positively to encourage non using. Yesterday she sent a picture of her face for us to see her mostly clear eyes. I really wasn’t sure if she was not using but I thought she was reaching out for validation. I sent xoxoxo. Hard to know if she’s using or not. Advice for us when we have limited contact know what and when to say what…
Dear G2,
Thank you for reaching out and for this very important question.
It is good to have you on board and to hear that you are finding helpful resources through your research and with your presence on this site.
CRAFT was originally designed to be used by family members who were able to spend time with their Loved Ones. More and more people are facing the challenge of dealing with a Loved One’s substance use disorder with limited contact. The constraints of long-distance relationships are making everything so much harder.
We have written about this issue in the past on several blog posts. I have compiled a series of articles for you to read through to get an idea of how to manage communication with your daughter.
This article breaks down how to help a struggling Loved One when living far away from them.
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-can-i-influence-her-from-far-away
This article tackles the difficulties of texting a Loved One dealing with substance use
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-texting-to-perfection
This one talks about how hard it is to know if your Loved One is using or not when exchanging texts with them.
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-not-sure-if-he-used-or-not
You can also take a look at the Discussion Blog topic entitled “Loved One far away” for more guidance with your situation.
https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=294
I encourage you to go through these at your own pace. In the meantime, remember to be gentle with yourself for you are embarking on a terribly difficult journey.
First, bear in mind that it will be hard to know for sure when your daughter is using or not. Even though you know her very well, texting and talking on the phone are blurring the signals you would be looking for were she standing in front of you. Missing most visual and body language cues, at some point you will have to trust your gut. Remember that you might not get it right every time and remember that it is absolutely ok. You are learning as you go.
Your daughter sent you a picture of herself, wanting to get validation from you. You responded positively in a relaxed way. You can keep doing this and maybe next time add a nice comment about how you love seeing her smile.
You talk about how rarely you get to talk to her on the phone. It means that when you do, you get this valuable window of opportunity to use the skills laid out in Module 4 about how to talk to your Loved One. Little by little, soft, positive, non-judgmental communication could encourage her to reach out to you more regularly. She sent you a picture; she is already willing to connect. This is encouraging.
Having your child struggle with an opioid addiction is incredibly brutal, causing you to question every situation past and present, draining you of your energy and focus. CRAFT provides you a frame for addressing your daughter’s substance use disorder as well as your own daily struggles. It is meant to help you communicate with your Loved One in a healthy way, to teach you how to act when they are using or not using and to remind you every day that your focus should also be on yourself.
Module 7 gives you guidance on how to re-center and on how to deal with the wide array of feelings you are experiencing.
Making a habit of practicing self-care will help you be these solid, loving and understanding family members your daughter will rely on when she feels ready. Placing the focus on yourself is also essential to make sure that over time, you are less and less shaken by every move she makes. It is truly exhausting to witness your Loved One go through the cycle of addiction. Seeing her do better one day and relapse the next day is so terribly strenuous. Practicing CRAFT and taking care of yourself at the same time will allow you to reach a strong and composed stance. You will be able to calm down, learn some valuable coping and communication skills and hopefully breathe a little bit better as you go along.
Again, thank you so much for bringing this up. Our hearts go out to you in this difficult time. Please do not hesitate to reach out again should more questions arise.
My son was released from prison last Friday. I would not allow him to use my address, which threw him into being dropped off at the homeless shelter. We have talked and seen each other everyday since. He has yet to see his probation officer. I let him have his truck (he owns it) along with essentials, underwear, socks, jeans, (one pair) and two tees. He was let out with nothing and everything was gone prior to incarceration. We have had some good and not good conversations. Still refuses any treatment with/without me. I’m not pushing it. Despite being in the shelter he has remained clean. I would like to reward the good which includes jobs he has done for me on the retired farm. I also found him in my garage organizing tools instead of us getting into a heated argument. I am trying my best to let go of the destructive damage done to my property in the past. He had never been physically violent, nor has he stolen anything from me. Drug of choice is meth and possibly acid. Trying my best to move forward. I would appreciate the advice. He’s 32 and this has gone on since he was 16. He doesn’t seem to want to look for anything himself. Have I done too much already?
Dear Kirby01,
Your son was released from jail and dropped off at a homeless shelter. Unless you were prepared to have your son home, this was the right move. The shelter will have some case management services and should help your son access treatment. Being homeless also opens special services and funding.
It’s hard to think of our Loved One living in a shelter, but he is staying abstinent and has been doing odd jobs on your farm. These are all signs that he is doing relatively well at the moment. You would like to reward him. You should absolutely do so!
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Kirby01 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-trying-to-let-go-of-the-last-15-years
We don’t know what’s right anymore. We don’t know what to do. Our daughter will be 24 Sunday. She went from college student to totally non-functioning addict. She has been been in 8 inpatient facilities, multiple outpatient programs, approx. 25 hospitalizations in 2 1/2 years (9 in the last 4 months), 3 or 4 psych holds/stays, and 1 involuntary committal we got through the county. She relapses immediately, kicked out of multiple sober houses. Hasn’t kept a job in all this time. We had been paying for all her housing/rent, sober living, medical insurance/deductibles/copays/max out of pocket/medications, breathylzer in her car, etc…We are financially at the end of our rope with no end in sight. (We haven’t come up with the money to pay the residuals of all the recent hospitalizations – about $9,000) She is unbelievably promiscuous. desperate for a man but then steps on whoever that happens to be. She’s recently been with a 31 yr old male she met in one of the latest rehabs. She reports that he hits her and that appears as a result of her cheating on him. She is now saying she is being raped. She says she went with a stranger to get meth. She reports various physical altercations and also of assaulting others. She is total chaos and just continues to drink or use or whatever and up the ante of all this bad stuff over and over and over. Now the man has left her again apparently and she is calling us constantly drunk/high or whatever crying and begging about us not coming to help her after being raped and being all alone and wanting someone to come take care of her. I can’t possibly list all the things we have gone through and done for her over this period. We don’t know what to believe and don’t know where to go from here. We are out of financial resources and don’t know what else we can give or do for her. I know it’s horrible to not go to your daughter who says she was raped. I can’t imagine what the hospital thinks. I can’t believe this is her life. I can’t believe this is ours. I don’t know what to do anymore.
You poor dears. We have been following your story since last August. Your daughter is still using drugs (now methamphetamine) and drinking every chance she can, whenever she isn’t in treatment. You have provided all the help you can to get her into many different treatments. You are burned out and sound hopeless. It is completely understandable.
We have talked before about civil commitments. You have tried it once. Can you try it again, and even potentially again after that if needed? Your daughter could probably write the curriculum for a treatment center. She has certainly received lots of education on addiction at these centers. At this point, she is in serious danger, running with men who mistreat her, getting raped, and living in the streets when not at your house.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to iagirlsmom here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-dont-know-whats-right-anymore
My son, who struggles with alcohol and Xanax, got a second chance when my oldest son took him into his home. He put strict rules in place, no drugs, etc. Nevertheless, he is using again. My oldest feels responsible. I am trying to teach him the CRAFT method but he can’t compartmentalize like I have learned to do.
Family members do learn to compartmentalize, it is so true. It’s a defense mechanism. When you compartmentalize you put your feelings in a corner and don’t allow them to affect the rest of your relations or daily life (until they do, in which case you are typically overwhelmed and under-skilled to handle the flood.)
Your oldest son feels responsible for his younger brother’s relapse. I suspect he took it very personally. I also suspect both brothers feel a bit like failures since this attempt didn’t work out as planned.
Your older son needs to know that he was taking on a situation that was probably way over his head. This site can train your older son in CRAFT. He can be shown how to handle his brother’s drug use in the moment. He can be shown the trajectory towards recovery. In Learning Module 1, we show the “Spiral of Addiction.” Can you spend a little extra time showing this section to him? This comes up quite frequently and is so helpful for family members. It provides context and a more long-term view of the journey.
Recovery is indeed bumpy. But there is a pattern. Your older son was ready to be helpful by showing compassion to his brother. His willingness to create boundaries around drug use and hold him to them is part of the hard – but necessary – work we do as family members. He should know that he is not responsible for his younger brother’s behavior. He reached out a hand, and that gesture alone is significant.
Addiction is a tricky opponent. If your older son tried out some new communication skills (as we show in Learning Module 4) it could help him to have a frank, neutral conversation about what didn’t work and what might help the next time. Talking this out and even anticipating issues beforehand can be so empowering. Right now they are feeling the sting of this recent “failure.” But this is part of the territory, and with practice, your older son can learn to wipe the slate clean and approach the next opportunity to practice CRAFT with openness and forgiveness – for himself and for his brother.
You mention that your older son isn’t able to compartmentalize and thus may be having trouble digesting and implementing the CRAFT approach. CRAFT asks the family member to educate themselves about substance use disorder, to tend to their own emotional well-being and to embrace a predictable rhythm in responding to a Loved One’s use. Perhaps he needs to spend a bit more time sorting out some of the feelings he has about his brother’s use, and permission to feel whatever comes up. If he can clear some space by honoring that process, he may find some room to examine the method – and the process – with fresh eyes. Learning to practice CRAFT may then feel more approachable. Ultimately, he needs to cultivate some patience for himself as well, and give himself some credit for navigating this tricky terrain with his brother. It’s never easy.
We have written posts about a Loved One coming home (see topic: Home/homeless). It’s a challenge but there are families on our site who have opened their house to a Loved One, and are learning to make it work.
I hope your older son can spend some time on the site, seeing how other families have used CRAFT to help their Loved Ones. Thanks for writing in.
Hi,
I appreciate this website and have listened to the modules several times and just listened to podcast “heads up tips for families with a loved one on the recovery path”. My addicted loved one is my nephew. I shared this website with my sister and her husband but we are “newbies” to Allies in Recovery. I am one of my sister’s supports and she is at a crossroads. Her 30 year old son is in a detox facility as of three days ago.. (I think the modules helped, dip/wish to make happen) He has been been in/out of treatment since 17. We hope he will choose inpatient rehab but found out today he wants to come home, go on MAT, and go back to work. Work seems to be his one thing he uses as a reason to not do inpatient rehab. He has good insurance thru his estranged wife. Of course we are scared his plan isn’t going to work. My sister has “hijack brain” and wants to make this time work. She isn’t taking time to care for herself. We need help with a plan for him to stay at her house that is safe, fair for her, her husband and her son. Her husband and her differ in opinion of boundaries. I think a plan that is unbiased …a happy medium maybe. Help!
Welcome to the community. We’re so glad you’ve found us and that you’re working with the modules, listening to the podcast, and finding these resources helpful.
The short answer, and the shortest way through, is for your sister and her husband to watch our site’s Learning Modules and answer the questions together. Once they are more clear and more unified in their approach towards him, then they could invite him home. Some boundaries would certainly need to be established between the three of them. This would be accomplished by using the essential skills laid out in Learning Module 4. Embracing the communication techniques and the strategies for making a request will help the family approach this conversation in a new, productive way. Here are many of the components that could be discussed.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to coydog3948 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-we-need-to-find-the-middle-ground
My son (32 yrs old) is using daily and refuses to seek detox and rehab.
This addiction has been ongoing for 15 years.
We don’t allow him to stay at the house as he is disrespectful and confrontational.
It is very difficult to cut off communication due to constant worry.
Suggestions?
Dear dunn9,
15 years is a long time to have been struggling – both for him and for you. We’re so glad you found this site and we sincerely hope that delving into our eLearning and the rich exchanges on the Discussion Blog will be of great aid to you and the rest of the family, and ultimately for your son.
Allies in Recovery’s approach is informed by CRAFT, among other evidence-based research/methods. I am happy to say that cutting off all communications is never something we would recommend to you (assuming there is no threat of violence).
I’d suggest you spend some time on the communications module – Module 4. Here’s the link: https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=4&s=1
This module will help you vastly improve how you and your Loved One communicate. Their defensiveness will drop. It helps you to better manage difficult moments, and learn to formulate requests that get you a “yes.
Let us know how you’re doing and don’t hesitate to come back to the Discussion Blog to get guidance once you’ve begun to digest and start applying the skills from Module 4 (or other modules).
All our best.
We’ve spent time watching the craft modules. It has helped. We need to work on the implementation.
We invited our son back into the house after he lost his latest housing after a few days. He only lasted a few days at home due to stealing and drug use. This cycle has been repeated multiple times this year.
We’re trying to keep communication open. He only wants to engage when he needs help with something.
How does one balance keeping communication open while not enabling?
Thank you.
Communication is such a big part of any relationship. It forms the foundation for our interactions. To be most helpful in addressing your son’s addiction, you need to be able to control some key aspects of your communications. Your words, your tone – even the decision of whether or not to speak at all – are tools for implementing CRAFT.
You’ll need to practice with these, in order to gain and maintain control over your end of this equation. This isn’t easy. You’ve probably spent a lifetime trying to talk to your son, with varying degrees of success. Every family has patterns of communication that ultimately need to be “unlearned.”
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to dunn9 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-we-dont-want-to-enable-his-use
Hi. My son was in an outpatient suboxone program but with COVID 19 there is no going into the office at the program and no drug testing. He had completely relapsed for about 5 weeks now. Very difficult.
He has been trying for last 2 days to detox himself. Already getting sick and agitated. I have tried to ask if he wants to go for walk etc. but he said he wants to be left alone.
Should I do so? Should I try to engage with him? It is going to get much harder in the next 3 to 4 days and I am afraid he will go back to using. Any support I can give him?
Thank you.
my son has written, signed and cashed a check from my checkbook for cocaine. My husband wants to have him arrested .
I want to see him go into a rehab. He has been clean for 3 years and relapsed. He is currently in a detox for this week. Has anyone ever had their loved one arrested and what was the outcome? positive or negative?
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-jail-the-safest-place-for-him
Here is a post we wrote in response to another member with similar questions regarding arrest and possible jail. We would agree with rehab over arrest, but they aren’t mutually exclusive.
A natural consequence of fraudulently writing a check is arrest. Your son should feel the pain of having done something illegal BUT not if 1) it is dangerous to him or 2) by not charging him, your son is more motivated and agrees to additional treatment. Is your son willing to go to treatment? If not a rehab, which may be more than he needs, additional community supports. (If your son is already connected to community treatments than inpatient rehab may disrupt the community services he is using to maintain abstinence. A third option is for him to increase community supports and treatments.)
Cocaine is a psychological war. There is no physical drug dependence with addiction to cocaine. Is your son otherwise living a recovery lifestyle? Job, recovery support, good relationships? Does he have a stable drug-free home life?
Families are caught in these difficult decisions. Would getting him arrested provide you the leverage to get him more treatment?
So, the answer to your question depends on the context. Three years of recovery is HUGE and WONDERFUL!! Is this a single lapse? Or is your son off to the races with cocaine, and possibly other behaviors like stealing? He did go to desperate measures for money to buy the drug.
The family needs to assess these options given the context and your son’s motivation. I hope this helps to make things a little more clear.
I just found this website. Wish I had found it earlier, but know I will learn a lot from here on out. Thank you.
My son has been in an inpatient facility for 6 weeks for alcohol. He is transferring to a Sober House tomorrow. We have not seen him since intake and we will tomorrow to pick him up, bring him home for the day and then to the Sober House. Suggestions on how to handle this? Thank you
How wonderful that your son is completing a 6 week program and has a place in a sober program.
First thing is to watch out for are these pitstops…. Like coming home before heading back out to a sober house. We’re writing a little late probably, but this is always a little worrisome. A Loved One gets home and then refuses to continue treatment.
Hopefully, your son is now at his sober house.
The relief of getting a Loved One to this point is palpable.
Don’t be surprised though if you don’t trust that things are completely okay for quite some time. Having a LO in treatment surprisingly doesn’t take away all the angst.
Also, don’t be surprised if he doesn’t like it, calls home and asks to come home, or otherwise complains mightily. Hang tight.
“Son, I am so proud of the work you are doing to put alcohol behind you. These first six to nine months are so important. I am happy you chose to continue in a sober house. “
It’s also a good time to review Module 5: “What to do when your Loved One isn’t using.” Little rewards, short supportive texts, will help keep him in place.
So, retaining him in the sober house is the next mountain to climb. Module 5 should give you ideas of how to reward his willingness to stay in the sober house.
Thank you so much for all the support and words of wisdom. I am going to start on Module 5. Yes, I have so much more peace of mind knowing he is in a safe space. It was a rough day picking him up, coming home and packing to head out to the Sober House. Yes, he tried to back out, but we just helped him through the process of the importance of continuing on his journey with the supports available. He has been there 2 days and so far so good.
Thanks again
Dear Rideau,
Welcome to the community! Thanks so much for writing in. Dominique has laid out a solid approach. Any viewing or reviewing of the modules is always recommended. There’s always more to learn in there. The concepts are simple but that doesn’t always mean they’re easy to practice.
Here’s a post that may be useful. It contains many gems of wisdom from a parent, author and beloved Guest Contributor on our site who really knows the ropes: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-heads-up-information-if-youre-new-to-sud
I’d also add in the importance of taking the time given to you – while your son is out of your home and getting the help and support he needs – to focus on your own peace of mind and well-being. Letting that rise back to the top of the list is appropriate and called for in these junctures.
And finally, I’d add that anything you can do to focus on staying in the present is so helpful at this time as well. It’s good medicine to not let yourself get tangled up in rehashing past behaviors, mistakes, etc. as well as trying not to spin out of control with worries about the future. Take care of yourself. Practice new modes of communication. These shifts will make a difference.
All my best,
Emily Cunningham,
Editor
Hello,
Thank you for allowing me to join this Allies in Recovery group during these challenging times for all of us. My 33 year old heroin addict son spent 90 days in jail asked to come home for shelter and help entering a Suboxone MAT Program. It took about 10 days to navigate the process; intake, assessment, counseling and appointment with a physician. His step dad and I live out in the country 11 miles from town, which I believe has been beneficial, but his decision to not use while awaiting MAT has been his alone. (By the way, his MAT program is also an hour and a half away as our county has no MAT programs.) He has been on the program now for three weeks and attending bi-weekly group counseling, weekly one-on-one counseling and has had two doctor appointments for Suboxone re-fill prescriptions. Everything now of course with the pandemic is by telephone which I am truly grateful.
All sounds wonderful, but he has self isolated the guest room. He stays in bed all day and all night as far as I can tell. He only comes out to use the bathroom, get something to eat (mostly at night) and make required telephone calls for behavioral health care. He has also began picking at scabs and said it was due to boredom. While in jail he also had an assessment and referral for residential treatment. He has been on several residential facility wait lists, but since his release I made contacting facilities his responsibility. I am not sure if he has been making the weekly calls to facilities to maintain a place on their respective wait lists. I have asked if he made calls, but I am no longer reminding him. He continues to avoid conversation unless I can catch him going out to the porch to smoke (cigarettes) or if he needs something. I mentioned this avoidance to his counselor who told me in these uncertain times behaviors were hard to predict.
To me this behavior leads me to believe he is using but, there is nothing here to use. When he first came home he washed all of his clothes including his back pack. He had no other possessions. We are 11 miles out of town, vehicles are locked and keys accounted for. He has no money and we leave none around. No things to pocket and sell seem to be missing. He is in his room all day and little or no traffic on our road at night, let alone it is unlikely anyone would pick up a hitch hiker and he doesn’t know anybody in town. I realize addicts can find drugs any place, but again, odds are if he did go to town to use, he wouldn’t come back.
I do believe he is taking his medication. Properly, that I don’t know. I would think the Suboxone would be tapering off and any high effects by now and he should not be in retreat. Any ideas on what’s going on and how to improve communication? Is it depression and anxiety? The private and public self? I’m working hard to have positive dialogue when the opportunity presents itself but conversation is still very short. Here is an example. All in a very calm and respectful tone.
“Can I ask you a question?”.
“What?”
“Yesterday you mentioned you needed to go to town today to refill your prescription. Do you know when you would like me to take you to town?”.
“Whenever you are ready.”
“OK. I need to take a shower first this morning. Did you want to take a shower also?”
“No.”
“You don’t think you need one?”
“I don’t want to.”
“OK”
End of conversation. Son returns to room. His responses were also calm and respectful.
I’m sure he won’t say much on the trip into and back from town. Is it realistic to just be patient and see if he’ll improve in a few weeks?
Welcome to this community. We’re glad you’re here. You helped your son get on Suboxone, a medication for opioid treatment. He is home, but also on wait lists for residential programs. You are questioning his behavior, which mainly involves hiding in his room.
Things are indeed complicated by the Covid virus. In some ways they are easier and in other ways they are more difficult. You are grateful the trips into town for the clinic have stopped. Your son is newly on Suboxone but is now being seen (almost?) entirely by telephone.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to MYATES here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-hiding-away-for-most-of-the-day
My daughter is a 24 year old health care professional and struggles with what I think is severe alcohol abuse. She’s currently working during this pandemic on the front lines. It is a very trying time for many particularly those with mental health/co occurring substance abuse issues. Her work is honestly the only thing keeping her moving in a positive direction.
She moved back home two months ago after a failed relationship with her live in BF, loss of a job and a DUI. We welcomed her home with stipulations that we are a “sober” house. No alcohol will be allowed in the home (nearly impossible to police by the way). She has been caught many times bringing it in, consuming it at night while we are all sleeping, continuing to be in denial about her illness when confronted. She has been hospitalized twice for detox and follow up IOP in the past year. The roller coaster of addiction is alive and well in our home. She is back to the denial phase and believes she can drink in moderation.
The CRAFT methods, personal coaching and this website have been a savior for me. I appreciate all the support. I am also now attending the on line support groups. My question for the experts is around boundaries. Where I used to search, find and empty found alcohol in her room I now find myself leaving it right where it is, holding her responsible for her decisions. She binges when she drinks and although she is able to work, her “down” time is all spent around drinking. She continues to lie, go out with strangers, drink in isolation and she verbalizes she doesn’t “feel welcomed in our home” (I suspect its because we have set some limits even though we haven’t reinforced them).
With all that is going on in the world, I am not comfortable asking her to leave my home which was the consequence we laid out earlier this year. I also do not want her to bring this into the house and drink in isolation.
I have had some “green light” moments recently and during these she has asked me if having a glass of wine with dinner would be permissible. I want to scream aloud “NO WAY” but I use my cautious ways and try to get her to rethink her request. I don’t approve of this on so many levels. I’m wondering if those with alcohol SUD who firmly believe they can moderate are given the “rope” to do so in your home helps them to see that they are not able to. In other words, does it help to ask them to stop drinking in isolation and support the request for moderation? Does the boundary create the isolation drinking?
We know we can’t control the addiction to alcohol, but we wonder if there is something we can do that will allow her more autonomy in deciding she needs to return to treatment.
She is on meds for her depression/anxiety but I’m sure she isn’t compliant given how much she drinks. The meds likely don’t work while drinking.
Is there any advice with the CRAFT methods to manage this scenario? Has anyone else had a similar situation? I thank you for your support.
thank you
Your description of your daughter’s drinking demonstrates what a hold addiction has on a person. Her life, outside of work, revolves around her drinking. She drinks alone. At night. She binges, and yet makes it to work (not all the time, I would presume).
In Learning Module 1, we talk about moderation, the science that exists around it, and its potential for success. In the module, we provide a link to a story of a couple who tried to moderate. In a number of cases, possibly especially so for those of us on this site, moderation has a low probability of working. This is a general statement and each case is certainly different. But the reasoning is that the research on moderation demonstrates that those most successful with this approach are those on the low end of drinking, with a relatively shorter span of time in active addiction. As you describe, your daughter’s drinking is already on the serious end of alcoholism, so moderation is less likely to be successful, according to the research.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to lmgrn1 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-whenever-shes-not-working-shes-drinking
My adult son left a 90 day rehab just as COVID19 was breaking out. The publicly funded rehab had indicated they had a step-down house for him to move into, but the funding was not available and he was given 48 hours to leave the program. I let him stay with me for a few days, but conflicts arose with my live-in life partner who is 30 years sober and very rigid in his viewpoints about me ‘enabling’ my son, who is 34 and has been in over 10 rehabs over the past 15 years.
Anyway, the long story is that after paying for an AirBnB, a hotel room, and giving him money for first month’s rent for a room, my son is now on the streets of Atlanta. He has lost everything, even his phone. I have not heard from him for three days. Some are suggesting I should file a missing person report. But I am not willing to take him into my home if he is found. I do want to know if he is alive and I always want to remind him I love him, even in the toughest moments.
The virus just makes this super scary.
Your son completed a 90-day program and was due to go into a sober living situation but the funding didn’t materialize. You had him briefly at home, but that doesn’t work with your partner who differs with you on the approach to getting your son help. You tried to keep him housed by paying for rooms, but that has since ended and your son is now on the streets of Atlanta. You haven’t heard from him in several days.
During this Covid crisis I imagine the police everywhere have their hands full. If having him found by the police will lessen the worry for you, I suggest you try. I don’t think the police would be obligated to bring him home to your house.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to detachlove3 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-on-the-streets-with-nothing
Hello
My adult son came today and gave a heartfelt message to us regarding his needs. Neither of us responded because we knew that it would only end with him becoming angry.
I want to respond to say that. How does this fit in with craft?
I would like to engage via email with him to look at a point he made and for us both to put down what the statement means to us. He will not engage with anyone and does not believe the issue is his. With that he only confirms what he believes.
Thank you
Hi Bryn,
What a great question! And the Allies in Recovery (Allies) website is the perfect place to be when asking about communication. If you have checked out the eLearning videos on the website, you may have found that communication is one of the main pillars of the CRAFT based curriculum.
What I hear in your post is your son is telling you what he feels he needs from his parents. Right now, he hasn’t recognized he has a problem. I am assuming when you say, “He will not engage with anyone…,” you mean he won’t talk to anyone about treatment or some type of help with his issue. You and your partner did not respond so the conversation would not end in conflict. However, you do want to respond to tell him the reason why you went silent.
I am hoping that sharing some experiences I have had with my Loved One (LO) and practicing what I have learned here on the Allies website, might give you some ideas on how you might be able to apply some of the same tools to your situation.
First, I found that I often have to find the positive in everything. And boy can that be difficult. I can already see some of the good in your situation though. Your son must believe that he has your (parents) love and support regardless, or he would not have come to you. This is a major plus. I am sure he has felt the same way you have, that conversations or requests may end up in an argument, but he was willing to chance it anyway. This is a very big positive, even if it may not feel that way at the moment. What I have learned is that when I see behavior that I want repeated, no matter how small it may appear to be, the best thing I can do is to reinforce it. Maybe saying something like, “We really appreciate that you trust us with this request.” And/or, “Thank you for coming to us with this…” These few simple affirmations keep the connection open and I have found encourages my LO to keep coming back to me when he has needs.
I have also found that giving myself time to think about how to respond is a great tactic for me to be more logical and well thought out, and not so reactive to what my LO is telling me. It gives me time to think. Another positive for you and your partner, you’re taking a pause to find the best way to answer.
Second, I have found that before I do construct a response, I ask myself some questions: “What are my thoughts that are driving the emotions in the situations?” “What are the emotions I am feeling?” “Why do I want to react this way?” basically I try and focus in on what the motivation is for initial need to react and then try and figure out if it’s going to help or should I respond differently. In your situation, you might ask yourself, “If I text him why we did not give him an answer, will it help? Would it be something we haven’t already told him? Are we just repeating ourselves?” and/or “Is the motivation behind telling him why we did not respond for him? Or is for me (us)?” If it is something that you have already told him then there is no need to repeat it. He already knows. I have some suspicion that this maybe it, simply because you said that you believed the discussion would only have led to an argument, which indicates that maybe there is a pattern, and now your goal is to break it. Another big lesson I learned from the communication module is ‘telling’ and ‘directing’ with how I see things are or should go does not translate well to my LO. One of the main objectives is to have our LOs come to the conclusions that they do have a problem, that they need help, and that there is help out there for them and they should come to this by internal versus external means. Restated, its best if its their idea, not ours. They are more likely to find success if it comes from them. Our job in all of this is to create an environment where they can be most successful. Hence new and better communication skills will help facilitate self-awareness and learning.
Instead of telling him that you did not respond because of his anticipated behavior, you might want to consider answering his requests. Now this still may lead to conflict, you might not give him what he wants, and his goal is to get what he wants. But avoiding his heightened state might not be the answer either. I find that I avoid because I am not confident in what to do. It’s going to be an opportunity to not engage when it becomes heated and for both parties to learn new healthy ways of interacting with each other. It’s a chance to set down some healthy boundaries.
When it comes to giving or not giving requests, as well as, setting down healthy boundaries, there are a couple of things I keep in mind:
1. If I cannot afford it, I cannot give it. It’s not personal, it’s not a punishment. I just don’t have it to give. The temper may flare, but I will keep my cool and hold true to my boundary.
2. If I am giving a gift, then there are no strings attached. If I want to give a gift then I am going to give it. But a gift does not require a particular behavior out of the person I am giving it to (this is true for emotional gifts like love and care too). If it does come with requirements then it is not a gift. For example: My LO wants money to go get gas but I am pretty sure he will use for drugs. If I give my LO the money and he spends it on drugs, I have no right to hold it against him. If I don’t want my money spent on drugs and I am sure that’s where it will go, it is my responsibility to not give it. The temper may flare, but I will keep my cool and hold true to my boundary.
3. Giving, allowing or supporting requests has to be with-in my boundaries. I often say these exact words, “How can I help support you and keep with what I am comfortable with?” I try and make it clear that just because my LO is asking or thinks it’s okay, doesn’t mean I agree (without directly telling). I have my own thoughts and ideas and integrity that I have to keep to. This is a way for me to get the point across without using blaming statements. The temper may flare, but I will keep my cool and hold true to my boundary.
4. Keeping my 2 cents out of my LO’s life is one of the best things I can do. Some of my stock phrases I turn to when talking with my LO is, “I know I cannot control your life, that’s not my job. You’re the one that will have to find what works for you,” and/or “I am not telling you what to do, this is just something I am not comfortable with (meaning I am not giving in on my boundary).” I often say these things to convince myself as much as my LO! Again, the temper may flare, but I will keep my cool and hold true to my boundary.
All of this is very difficult to do and took a lot of practice on my part. I found that things usually got worse before they got better but I also found that some of my new skills worked out pretty quickly. Helping to set down healthy boundaries, staying connected and learning when my LO was also setting boundaries (I often missed these types of statements like, “leave me alone, you always have to tell me what to do”), have improved our situation tremendously. So, yes Bryn, I do think CRAFT and the Allies website are helpful with your questions. Maybe head over to the eLearning videos and start with Module 4? Maybe join one of the online support groups? I would suggest staying connected here in the discussion blog. I would love to have an ongoing discussion about how things turn out or what you find success with.
Remember, you are not alone. Everyone here is rooting for you and hopes for healing for you, your partner and your LO. Stay healthy, stay safe.
Laurie MacDougall
My son spent some time in jail and is now in a long term recovery center. He is awaiting hearings and still might go to prison. My 12 year old grandson from another child has overheard conversations about his uncle from other family members and is fishing for details. What do I say? I don’t know what is appropriate for his age.
It is hard enough for adults to deal with the reality of a family member’s Substance Use Disorder, but it is so much more complicated for children. It can be especially challenging for grandparents and other relatives to know how to respond to a child’s very real questions about the situation.
Just the fact that you recognize the importance of taking your grandson’s age into account when deciding how to respond to him is a good sign. This shows that you are right on target in regards to coming up with a sensitive and appropriate response. In addition to his chronological age, I would consider his developmental level. Is he socially and emotionally typical for his age group or somewhat more or less mature? What has he been exposed to at this point?
Read guest writer Leslie Leff’s full response to 1sugarbear here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-do-we-talk-to-our-grandson
My 30 yr old son relapsed from using of fentanyl seven days ago (his 3rd relapse). We got him into detox the same day, he was on a methadone taper and was released four days later. Post detox he has tried Suboxone in the past and does not want to use that again. We have discussed Vivitrol, a shot that would last 30 days. Our understanding is that Vivitrol will block his brain receptors so that he won’t get high but will not help him with sleep and anxiety/depression. We are meeting today with a doctor to review the pro & cons (knowing he must be off the methadone for at least 10 days). He starts outpatient therapy in 2 days and that will consist of four 3hr sessions for 2/3 weeks. My son wants to try Wellbutrin as he feels that will help with the sleep, anxiety, depression. Any thoughts on the approach and what else we can do to assist him?
Thank you
We were recently asked our position on medication assisted treatment (MAT) for opioid addiction. It’s a complex issue and we are actively involved in analyzing the research around this topic. Here is our response: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-the-argument-for-mat
Your son’s relapses on fentanyl are very worrisome. I am glad he is willing to look at MAT. There are three drugs that help with opioid addiction: methadone, Suboxone, and Naltrexone (Vivitrol is the name of its monthly shot).
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to DanF1 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-were-weighing-the-pros-cons-of-different-medicatio
I have a friend of eight months who has a long history of drug abuse, some probable mental illness issues, and serious alcohol use disorder. She drinks every day soon after waking, and is what people have called a “functional alcoholic” — she doesn’t do much in life besides drinking, daily marijuana, and weekly Adderall, but she does hold a job. She’s a bartender at a local tavern with which I have a business connection — I see here there about 5 nights a week, and she drinks on the job and often gets very drunk at the end of the night. She has a boyfriend who enables and even encourages her drinking.
Despite all of her serious problems, I see and feel something very strong for this girl and her talents which she is wasting, and I’m committed to helping her. I’m reading and studying all I can about CRAFT, and I’m determined to help her no matter how long it takes. My difficulty is that even though she lives close by, I rarely see her outside of the tavern — she never socializes with anyone except the boyfriend and her mother, and when I pester too much about getting together she grows distant. Her mother does like me and I plan to tell her all about CRAFT when I see her next.
My question is, how can I effectively influence her if at this point in our relationship I only see her at work? The majority of examples I see of rewards and other CRAFT techniques seem to be geared toward husband/wife or parent/child relationships where you live with the user. She’s talked about doing many different things with me over recent months, but it’s all just talk — I’ve met her at other bars a few times but for the most part, she’s been impossible to spend time around outside of the tavern.
Thank you so much for your time and help, and thank you for this site — it’s been very helpful to me.
It is encouraging to see a good friend on this site. You want to help your friend who is in trouble with alcohol. Welcome.
A good friend can make a huge difference in the life of someone struggling, just as a family member can. CRAFT does say that you need a good amount of contact with the person. In the research the cut off was 40% of the time. This doesn’t sound like the case in your relationship.
We have worked with many families who are embracing the CRAFT method at a distance or who are in contact with their Loved One less than 40% of the time. Sometimes the family has nothing more to go from than the phone and texting.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to michael111 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-can-i-help-her
We have an adult son that lives quite a distance away from us. He is currently on probation for his second DUI and we just found out he is drinking a lot, which breaks our heart. We feel we need to address this with him, but would rather do it face to face when we can go visit him. He does not seem to have much support where he lives and does not want to move. He seems to like the loner lifestyle. Do you have any suggestions on how to talk about the situation knowing we will have to turn around and leave almost right after? It is our worry he is setting himself up for more legal issues. We do have our name on his bank account (just one of us) from when he moved after college, will we be in legal jeopardy if he gets into more legal trouble, is it better to remove our name from his account?
Thank you for your help. We are just so at a loss and it hurts so much.
I am sorry to hear about your son’s drinking, his issues with the courts and his driving intoxicated. You must be so worried. But you are reaching out for guidance and have landed on this site with us. Welcome.
Managing a Loved One with a drinking problem is not easy, as you already know. It doesn’t go away overnight. Your son is dealing with serious ramifications of drinking, and yet he continues to drink. What can you do?
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to me4clean here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-we-need-to-plan-a-visit-with-him
My son has been on a bender after a period of not using. He lives with us. He was asked to leave school after a well-being check revealed he was very high and in possession of 3 types of drugs in his dorm room. We are trying to follow the “disengage” method while this relapse is going on, but we are also confiscating or intercepting drugs when we can. This is safety move for us, because my son doesn’t have any brakes. But is confiscating drugs counter to the whole idea of disengaging? I know the natural consequence would be to let him overdo the drugs, but he would end up in the emergency room or worse, we have been through that many times. But I also don’t want to sabotage the method.
Your son is in a relapse after being asked to leave college when drugs were discovered in his dorm room. Now he is home. The question is whether or not to take his drugs away when you can.
This is a very good question and one that is difficult to answer. I’m glad you wrote in.
You are in the thick of it, with your son actively using under your roof. He probably doesn’t have much of a life right now outside your home, as he was only just recently a full-time college student.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to fissured here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-confiscate-his-drugs
Parental Visitation with Children Question:
We had been trying everything we could think of to help my daughter, H, and son-in-law, C, improve their situation and get treatment, but it got to the point where we were concerned for the safety and welfare of the grandkids (6,4) so we requested permanent guardianship. The substances involved are alcohol, methamphetamine and weed (least of our concerns). We didn’t have meth use confirmed until the hearing and drug tests came back positive and the parents admitted to having used w/in the last week.
We were given permanent guardianship with visitation at our discretion and the grandkids have been with us since. The health and general well-being of the grandkids has dramatically improved and they are doing play therapy to work through the separation from their parents and everything they had been exposed to before (violence, physical, emotional, educational neglect, parents jail time, unsafe living conditions). Both have high ACE scores.
Visitation is up to us and we took a one month break from contact with H and C and all of the chaos to clear our heads and understand how to approach this in a way that would support the stability, consistency, and wellbeing of the grandkids and minimize the exposure to the chaos that they had been living in.
With assistance from a former substance abuse nurse and counselor (who has been on all sides of this, addiction, treatment, and whose daughter also lost custody of her children) we created visitation guidelines that required H and C to create a recovery plan and give 3rd party validation that they were working the plan. If they did this each week, they would get visitation starting with phone, then video, (and if establishing a pattern of consistency supervised in-person visitation).
H went to a 2-week outpatient program for co-presenting situations. C says he does not have a problem and uses meth because he can’t afford to buy his ADD medication. H still says she doesn’t have a problem and blames us for her anger and setting up arbitrary guidelines that keep them from their kids.
H has since decided to go to community college and get a paralegal degree to get her access to the kids back. She is in her 2nd semester, it’s unclear how she’s doing with that. We were given one letter from her program guide and teacher saying she is attending class regularly and while struggling financially like many students, she shows promise. She has taken one drug test (hair follicle and urine) that showed meth use w/in last 30 days (we paid for the testing).
We started video visitation with H (and C is there with her) on a weekly basis (even though none of the other requirements have been met). We have continued with this and made once exception for Christmas for an in-person visit with the kids.
They have now obtained a pro-bono attorney and mediator to get more visitation. At first they just asked for it or to sit down and talk and since it’s been proven over the last few years that their words and facts don’t agree (they lie and manipulate) and we can’t trust the welfare of the grandkids on their words alone. This is why we asked for 3rd party proof of their actions not words we declined to sit down and talk with them.
We just received notice they filed a motion to get unsupervised visitation and daily phone contact. We’re concerned for their physical safety during an unsupervised visit (they’ve threatened to take them and leave and they also have violent episodes with each other and other family members -including guns and knives, but not directly at kids) and also their emotional well-being should the parents not keep their commitments and also since unsupervised, we won’t know what they are telling the kids, which could be things that would undermine the stability and well being they have gained.
I’m asking to see if there is anyone who has had similar experience with a situation like this and/or if there are resources or better guidelines about visitation that keep the kids safe and also require the parents to take responsibility in order to be a larger more frequent part of the grandkids’ lives.
Thanks in advance for your help and input!
CD
It is one of the tragic consequences of untreated SUD that children wind up needing others to step in and care for them. Thank you for taking your grandchildren in. We are seeing more and more grandparents stepping in these days as Substance Use Disorders leave parents unable to care for their own children. It is heartbreaking. And yet your grandchildren are so lucky that you are able to be there for them. This is truly a blessing.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to dhpofamily here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-trying-to-get-her-kids-back-but-still-using
K is in detox right now… it’s been 3 days.. she calls a couple of times a day & the last 2 phone calls have been her saying she’s not going to stay… she’s not going to the next step (residential) for the months. She says that there are too many rules in residential – out of room at 7, not able to lay down & rest during the day, chores, meetings etc…. I tried to explain to her that she needs to have a daily regiment –
I don’t know what to do…. she lives in her own apartment – her dad & I pay half the rent – she pays the other half – she has a job….
help…
Your daughter is in detox. She’s called a few times to say she is not going to the residential program once discharged from detox.
Family members hear a great number of things from Loved Ones in inpatient treatment. There are complaints about the food, the chores, the amenities, other people. Sometimes programs won’t allow calls home during this first stage, for this very reason. We’ve had situations where the Loved One called the family incessantly, with so many complaints that the family just pulled them out of treatment.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to da-mommy here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-says-she-wont-do-residential-treatment
R is weaning off meth. I am happy to see they want to stop and are doing something toward that goal. However, R has taken up other thrill seeking risky, downright stupid, behavior and I am at a loss what to do about this before it creates another set of problems, legal and financial. R is shoplifting. I knew a woman several years ago who gave up opiates and took up shoplifting. I should have paid more attention to what she was saying but filed it away in my head under her saying ‘she replaced one addiction with another’.
Has anyone else here had their loved one take up shoplifting after stopping drug use or while stopping?
What should I do?
R suffers from co-occurring disorders, likely fueled by underlying untreated attachment disturbances, trauma, and/or ACEs. ACE stands for Adverse Childhood Experiences – see this article by the CDC for more information.
The clinical term for shoplifting is kleptomania and it’s considered an impulse-control disorder with links to both OCD and addiction (see this article from the National Institute of Health.) Women suffer twice as much as men, and it co-occurs with substance use disorders (23-50%).
Read John Fitzgerald’s full response to 4RHelp here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-are-they-replacing-one-addiction-with-another
I need advice about my boyfriends 18 year old son. We are new to this site. We are trying to find a way to keep supporting him while maintaining healthy boundaries and not have to kick him out of the house. He refuses to get a job, he breaks the screens in the windows so he can smoke pot in the house, he drinks in his room alone, he says he does not have a problem and we simply do not know what to do. We’ve come up with tons of lists, agreements, boundaries, etc and none of it seems to stick or to matter ultimately. Sometimes he’s sober and acting normal and then he goes off the rails. He cannot make it past 3 days without using. We cannot tolerate the outright, in-your-face smoking in the house and are on the fence about kicking him out.
Any thoughts, feedback, help would be appreciated!
My experience is first do all the modules in Allies in Recovery.
Everyone in the house.
There is an al anon saying that the LO with SUD recovers only after the last al anon in the house recovers.
The reason this is true, in my opinion, is that disengaging from inappropriate behavior and engaging with appropriate behavior won’t work if the LO will simply engage with a person in the house not knowing/applying CRAFT principles, when the person applying CRAFT disengages.
All sources enabling the LO to validate their inappropriate behavior must be removed.
The prescription for the behavior of the household using CRAFT to engage/disengage with an LO with SUD must be coordinated and fit all of the facts involving the LO and the household.
No one here can write this “script”. Only the household involved can learn the principles, apply them and create the script, routines, habits and set the boundaries based on the exact nature of the situation that would be likely impossible for someone here to do this for you.
You’re not alone yet you guys alone can do it.
Thank you for replying. I did not find it helpful but thank you anyway. We’ve done the modules, we employ CRAFT principles, we disengage during unacceptable behavior and reengage/reward during sober moments. He is destructive and defiant. Our home smells like pot. He breaks into our room and takes what he wants. We understand that this is the addiction talking through him. I guess I was looking for empathy, not strategies. I was seeking validation for our decisions yet see now that it must come from within. I’ve learned something new here though and I thank you for that. I think I misunderstood the purpose of this board.
I’m sure you did not misuse the board. It is very tempting to give advice and I am guilty of that all too often – even when I am pushing for peace. You may find the Kayla Solomon Wednesday evening online sessions to be the most help. She works with people in a small group and supports you while you talk through the challenges of your individual situation. Please hang in there.
Dear Tuesday42,
I assure you, you have not misunderstood the purpose of this discussion board. We welcome replies from the membership to a member’s comment/ question, but just ask that they frame them in terms of their own experience. This is really in the best interest of everyone involved. We want to hear what you have struggled with, what has worked for you, what you have learned – all of this is incredibly valuable and it is the reason we have this discussion board. But because everyone’s situation is so unique, we strive to keep the “suggestions” in the court of Dominique Simon-Levine and other in-house professionals.
As the moderator of the comment in question, I made a mistake in approving it even though it contained advice. This was my error, and I am sincerely sorry for this oversight. Typically I ask members to rephrase such comments if they have entered into the realm of “advice-giving” but I failed to do so in this case. This was a genuine mistake.
Dominique Simon-Levine will be posting her response, tailored to your situation, and perhaps even asking for most details from you to help fine-tune your approach, as soon as possible. She has unfortunately been struggling with some technical issues which means the wait has been a bit longer than usual. We appreciate your patience.
In the meantime, in true CRAFT spirit, let’s wipe the slate clean. We can all focus on what this new day brings to us. Thanks very much for being here and being active on the blog.
All my best,
Emily Cunningham,
Editor
Welcome to the site. There are a number of posts (see the topics tabs to the right: home/ homeless) that address this most difficult question of whether or not to ask a Loved One to leave your home. Reading through these will illuminate some of the more universal themes, and also help you see how you need to apply the CRAFT principles to your specific situation. We typically suggest practicing CRAFT, patiently, in the day-to-day, for 6-8 weeks to start to see results… of course this figure is an estimate. Some find it works more rapidly, while for others results can be slower to surface.
There are a few key things to keep in mind while you embrace the CRAFT method. One is avoiding confrontational exchanges – we like to call this “keeping out of the weeds.” If the goal is to get your partner’s son to open up, look to you for help in vulnerable moments and accept meaningful help from you, then having exchanges that promote his defensiveness won’t work in your favor. Whether you have the best intentions or not, brining up a Loved One’s substance use problems when they aren’t ready to talk about them is very seldom productive.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Tuesday42 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-wont-respect-any-of-our-boundaries
Dear Tuesday42,
I wanted to also share a few other posts that seem relevant to your situation. I hope you find them useful.
Here’s one by Annie Highwater: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-on-the-topic-of-trust
And another by Laurie MacDougall that comes in two parts. Part One: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-why-is-my-boundary-setting-not-working
and Part two: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-i-learned-to-set-boundaries-that-bring-me-peac
All my best,
Emily
need advice my daughter 37 has dui in virgin island lives there has a lawyer court scheduled for friday she has no car no job very low on money has a guy friend there with her now i don’t know how much money he has she needs money for rent for this money she has always worked bars but says she doesn’t want to do that kind of work any more. she has problem with anxiety and panic and uses alcohol
should i pay rent?
Your daughter is living in the Caribbean and is having significant problems with alcohol. Friday has passed. What happened in court?
Is there talk of treatment? Did the court suggest treatment? It’s hard to say whether you should pay her rent without knowing more information. Is she likely to hole up and avoid everything if she keeps her place for another month? If she can’t pay the rent and you don’t cover it, what would her situation be? Would losing her place make it easier to convince her to go into treatment somewhere? Can you help her see the options for treatment down there or if she were willing to come back stateside?
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Kate44 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-went-to-court-for-a-dui
It is said that it is best to try and stay in contact with an addicted loved one. What if that person is one’s adult, self sufficient son who does not answer texts except when they want to and only visits on special occasions. This leaves little time to actually talk or even have a relationship. What if they have stated that they want to be left alone and then share nothing of their life. This leaves my mind imagining all sorts of scenarios. What seems to be happening in my case is that the addicted loved one is calling all the shots which is basically allowing them to engage in any behavior they see fit. I will add that they are seeing a psychiatrist and that they were upbeat over the holiday. Except that then there was no contact at all in the days approaching New Year’e eve. Then it was texts which sounded a little too upbeat to me. My husband is saying he wants no contact with our son as he is “tired of the games.” I personally am at a loss except to pray and hope. Is that really all that can be done when your loved one is an adult who lives 3 hours away and is totally independent?
Thanks for this question, Lynne72. Dominique Simon-Levine will most likely be preparing an answer shortly. But in the meantime I just wanted to point out this blog topic, “Loved One lives far away” in case you might find any of the articles helpful: https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=294
CRAFT was designed for family members who have a decent amount of contact with their Loved One. The researchers set the bar at a minimum of 40% of your time spent together. Over the years, we have worked with families whose Loved One is far away. This caused us to think through how the principles of CRAFT can still apply. See the topics tab to the right for our posts that address such situations.
What you say is certainly true for many. Little to no contact from a Loved One can contribute towards a momentum of stress and worry. You don’t know what they are doing and don’t know what to make of the snippets of texts and contact that you do have. You spin your wheels and worry. Now your husband is fed up and wants to cut off contact. When your LO seems upbeat, you sense that things are good. But when he seems too upbeat, you end up worried. And it is quite a struggle to get more information to square with your suspicions.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Lynne72 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-hoping-and-praying-all-i-can-do
Looking for an educational consultant experienced in working with young adults struggling with sex addiction. Our 20 yr old son will be transitioning from a wilderness therapy placement to a facility that can help him with this particular addiction, as well as mental illness. We adopted him at birth and are uncovering numerous issues, several of which we did not know were challenges for him.
Thank you for your referrals and any advice!
Pam
What to do when long-time partner does not see that he is experiencing in part withdrawal or feeling poorly in relation to the substances?
Partner suffers from ADHD depression and anxiety, abuses marijuana alcohol and his ADHD medication (stimulants). Used to see and understand that using marijuana very heavily (for lengthy periods of time he is high morning to night, and heavy THC) affects his depression and anxiety negatively. He used to see that when he stops using, the anxiety and lack of motivation and overall feeling very down is part of withdrawal. He also used to see his lack of motivation as related to when he smokes too much.
He finally received treatment for his ADHD (already on meds for the depression and anxiety… but the medication did not work so well, because his ADHD was left untreated). Upon going on vyvanse, this was the only medication that helped his depressive, anxious, and ADHD symptoms. It was a HUGE change. Soon though, he began abusing the vyvanse. He will go through a months worth in 5 days max (I suspect he goes through it in more like 3-4 days depending). I was only able to put two and two together recently. When he abuses vyvanse he is awake for 4-5 days without sleep and does not eat, and when he runs out, it is the most horrific depressive crash. Since he started abusing vyvanse his behavior is more erratic, he is angry and has explosive fits of rage where he gets verbally aggressive, depression worse than ever, impulsive, agitated… and to deal with these symptoms he will be high 24/7.
Friends are on board now realizing this is problematic and recently stopped enabling him by lending him money after he lost his job. I am a mental health social worker and have been trying to embody the CRAFT approach, and hope to get him to look at SMART recovery stuff. At this point it is out of control, he is stealing from me and lying about it even in the face of obvious proof. On the couch day and night, completely let go of all of his responsibilities and becomes very angry at being asked for any accountability.
In his eyes, he sees all of this as part of his natural depression and anxiety. He feels the only reason he doesn’t feel well when he is without substances, is because it is his natural level of depression. He does not see the stimulant withdrawal either, or that he becomes anxious when he is out of weed. He recognizes there is a problem, but will not consider much beyond this. Does not seem to feel bad about being caught stealing from and manipulating me, yells out why can’t I let this go given he is suffering from depression and know that he is feeling bad enough… I do need to address that he tries to use his anger to throw me off and control the conversation.
Although he talks of feeling motivated to have the depression treated, he won’t consider any intensive treatment for the depression as an “in”. There is less and less change talk, when there actually used to be change talk and dips frequently. Since he started abusing vyvanse, maybe 6 months I figure… I see almost none.
He does not see any of the links between natural consequences and his choices. I fear that I am out of options and need to need to ask him to leave, if he is truly not willing to take actionable steps to any treatment. He frequently promises that he will, but quietly sabotages it.
How can I respond in a way that is helpful to this talk about all of the problem being depression and nothing linked to his choices or withdrawal, without preaching? He puts himself in a victim stance where everyone is expecting too much for someone who has depression and the substances have little to do with it aside from “treating” it.
Your partner uses alcohol and cannabis on top of depression and anxiety medication as a way to manage his mood. He recently began treatment of his ADHD and is now misusing the medication he has been prescribed for it.
From your description, you have spoken to your partner repeatedly about the cannabis and alcohol. You are put back on your heals by his claim that the ADHD medication, 30 days-worth taken over 4-5 days or less, is not somehow responsible for the terrible emotional crash and the insomnia that happen when he runs out.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-can-you-let-him-suffer-on-the-couch
I’m afraid to write this for fear of “jinxing” our situation, but this site helped spark monumental changes in my family, and we are all so thankful to Allies in Recovery. I have been seeking help for over a decade. My son simply could not function in the outside world with his pot addiction and binge drinking. I know people who function well on perpetual pot, but it had a huge effect on my adult son.
Here’s how our lives transpired when I found this website. I followed the videos and cut down on my negative talk and waited for a “wish” or a “dip.” I prepared what I would say when it came using the suggested template. I found a treatment center that I thought would resonate with him. I called them and let them know we were interested. I also asked them for tips on how to talk to my son. I knew it would not take long because he already had a lot of wishful thinking, though I was prepared to go 6-8 weeks. When the dip came in one week, I took a deep breath, followed my template, and my son agreed to look at the recovery center’s website. Within 2 minutes my son said that he wanted to go.
My son is now in his 5th week of outpatient treatment. He loves the treatment center and said it is the most meaningful thing that has ever happened to him. He is helping others. I am filled with optimism.
I am so grateful to Allies in Recovery. Of course a huge part of this change in direction was that my son was ready. I knew that the window when he would agree to go to treatment would be very small and Allies helped me jump on it when he was ready. My son does not even remember the day he agreed.
The hardest part for me was waiting for my son to be ready – and of course the many relapses – and the 4 hospital stays for alcohol binges, and so much more. But waiting for them to be ready is excruciating. My heart goes out to other parents and people trying to get off their substances of choice. May you find help.
That is wonderful news. I am so happy for you and yes I know the feeling of not wanting to jinx anything. AIR has really helped me to be the best advocate for my daughter who is also thrilled with her new life.
Like your son, she found engaging treatment in a good place to be a God send. She was also “ready.” It did take us a year of practicing CRAFT before she really wanted change. After her 7 weeks of treatment she moved into a sober house with others from her recovery center. The community is strong and they help each other every day with tremendous success.
Last night she came to dinner with the family and said it was day 109 of sobriety and she has never been happier with herself and her life. Continued best wishes for your son’s recovery. It’s a gift for the whole family.
We celebrate the success you have shared with us. And we so appreciate the account you gave of what you did. This really is a beautiful “primer” for using CRAFT – an easily digestible summary. It highlights the essential changes we need to embrace as family members, and the awareness we need to cultivate. Thank you for writing this up, and for sharing it with us. It warms our hearts to hear how happy your Loved Ones are now that they are experiencing new dimensions and possibility in their lives.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to plantgeek here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-success-heres-what-we-did-that-worked
I am looking for some guidance and perspective on my situation with my husband. I have posted before but will give a quick background on my husband. He has a history of opiate dependence but has successfully been in recovery with the assistance of MAT for the past 15 years. He has however been struggling with alcohol use disorder for the past several years but it case become more severe in the past year and a half. He has also struggled with benzodiazepine use in the past. Over the last year he has been to detox on a few occasions and has also been to IOPs on five different occasions. He recently returned home from a 28 day stay at an inpatient treatment facility, about 2 months ago.
At first it was going fairly well. We both have had some challenges readjusting to him being home. The trust within our marriage has been the most challenging since his return home.
When he first returned home he was doing a lot of work on keeping himself busy. AA meeting pretty much every day, IOP in the evenings and spending time with our son during the day. He has not been working, as he has been able to collect TDI while getting readjusted. In the process of treatment over last year he has decided not to return to his labor job, as he identified it as one of his main triggers. He has decided he would like to go back to school and will work in another field while completing his degree. As the time to get a new job and start school gets closer he has been having more and more frequent slips with his drinking. At first he was being honest with me about it but over the last week has gone back up sneaking around and lying to me about his drinking. I found several nip bottles in the garage tonight and confronted him about it. He minimized the situation, saying it isn’t a big deal. He then followed that up by saying he was a good guy and doesn’t know why I’m so upset, as he doesn’t feel this has any direct effect on me. I am at a loss of how to move forward at this point. One of my boundaries was honesty around his drinking. I know it is not uncommon for someone struggling to lie but we have a young son and I can’t always be second guessing if he is lying about his drinking, especially because he sometimes cares for him while I’m at work. I want to support him but I need to think about what is best for our entire family.
It sounds like you have supported your husband through the trials of his addiction for a very long time. Medication helped your husband stop using opioids, but not benzodiazepines, and more recently he’s having problems with alcohol.
Trust is going to be an issue for some time going forward. It’s not all or nothing, and you will jump to mistrust whenever there is any sign he may be using.
Your husband has done a lot to address his addictions. He doesn’t sound able to completely give up the alcohol. Let your trust waver. It’s going to. Don’t put too much weight on it for now. It is what it is. Almost regaining trust in someone who has been using drugs and alcohol can take years.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to abc123 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-slipping-up-and-hiding-it-from-me-again
I know that in general it is better to have a person willing to enter a substance use program and I have been slowly working on convincing my 17 year old son that he needs help. But his use has escalated and he had to be hospitalized a few days ago for taking large quantities of pills mixed with alcohol and weed. He could have easily killed himself, but he doesn’t see it as a problem. We are grappling with having him mandated by the courts into a program, but I feel like that won’t really help if he is unwilling. I’m afraid it will make things worse by damaging our relationship. When is forced treatment a good idea?
Forcing a loved to do something when they are not ready usually does not produce the best outcomes. When courts do mandate treatment, it can work, assuming that the person has some motivation to change and the treatment is effective (a big assumption).
Instead of mandating treatment, his hospitalization can be used as leverage/motivation for exploring options available to him. Based on his recent experience, a part of him knows he needs help, while another part of him does not want to give up the behavior because presently it’s serving a purpose for him.
Read Dr. John Fitzgerald’s full response to jennmen here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-is-forced-treatment-a-good-idea
I just want to let everyone on this site know how thankful I am for the AIR community. I joined AIR a year ago and since then I’ve grown so much from all the resources, suggestions, advice, and stories shared on this site. I can now see how focusing on my own recovery from from obsessing over my son’s SUD and focusing on my self-care are critical in helping me deal with my son’s SUD.
Although I never thought I would find myself in the position of experiencing a LO’s SUD, I can’t imagine the wreck I would be today had I not found AIR. AIR reminds me that my son is not his SUD. He is so much more than that and he deserves my love and compassion and I deserve love and compassion, too. Love and compassion are powerful, indeed.
I am forever hopeful for my son, and for all our LOs. I am forever grateful for AIR.
You made our day. Thank you Hopefulin2018. We just need to find the groove….and there is a groove in this effort, find it and things look/are a bit more easy.
My son was meeting 5-6 nights a week for 1.5 hr/night with a organized support group of addicts and found it beneficial for 5 months and felt strongly that it helped him and he was helping others. I don’t believe he used during this time frame but as he entered the 6 month members of the group reached out and confronted him about using and eventually he stopped attending. He was in fact using again, he entered a detox program and upon getting out did not want to attend any more group meetings. He has been seeing a psychologist weekly for 12 weeks and his doctor feels they should now go bi-weekly. Urine testing shows he is not using currently. I am concerned about the lack of group and professional help. I mostly feel he is embarrassed to face the old group and is not interested in finding another. Any thoughts
Thank you,
Dan
Your son has been helped by a recovery group and by seeing a psychologist. The group confronted your son about using drugs and he entered a detox, and now, abstinent again, is reluctant to go back to the group. Even the softest most well meaning suggestion that a person is using can discourage someone from returning. This can happen in any group really, it is often no more than a social reticence, perhaps the sense of failure or shame, that will keep someone from returning after a relapse.
If not that group, how about another? See our supplement for the many kinds of peer support groups that are available. Could you provide your son a list of the ones near him, the times and place? A group recovery process is very helpful in daily early recovery.
As for the psychologist, does his suggestion to cut back have to do with insurance?
I am like you a little concerned that the sum total of your son’s recovery work is seeing a psychologist for an hour every other week. How about finding a recovery coach? Again, can you look, interview, and give your son a small list of potential people? Look also for recovery support centers. There are so many choices of things to do. I would imagine your son is willing to find a way to get back in the groove.
Your son has felt the strength under him that comes from peer recovery support. Time to sample another. It is very hopeful that your son is accepting of his addiction and seeks help. Just keep putting options in front of him.
Thank you for your quick response. It is not a insurance issue, I was told the psychologist suggested bi-weekly appointments …. now I wonder if he did in fact make that suggestion. I will explore information on other groups in our area and include recovery coaches. The reviews of recovery support centers near me are not favorable but I will expand my search area. I will also expand my search of peer recovery support groups. I appreciate your suggestions.
Thank you,
Dan
We keep ending up in this same spot and I think the only way to break the cycle is to make her homeless. She will not stop using in our house. Our 23 yo daughter is a non-functioning alcoholic. She hasn’t ever really held a job. She has no money, no income and no savings. She has no friends to stay with (seriously), she has systematically demolished every relationship she’s ever had including in the recovery community. Her addiction came to light her senior year of college. She didn’t graduate despite our tuition assistance for the following 5 semesters. We’ve brought her home 10-12 times in this 2 year period with the agreement she wouldn’t drink in our home but she she ends up in the ER every single time due to drinking. She has invited men over to party to get alcohol, she’s peed her bed and our bed and our carpets passed out, she’s tried to get our car keys, she gets impulsive and belligerent and argumentative. She’s up all night and sleeps all day and won’t cooperate with clean up or getting job or helping out despite any written agreement when we accept her back. She has done multiple IOPs and therapies and medication (including MAT). She has been kicked out of 5 sober living facilities. She has been in 6 residential inpatient facilities in 13 months. Every time she ends up home b/c she has no where else to go. We have spent over $18,000 (!) for her housing these last 2 years with paying her rent while in the rehabs, paying each sober living facility and then losing the buy in and security deposit, hotels when kicked out of these places or after ER stays, etc.. . After the 4th residential facility she cut the breathalyzer device out of the car she was using (due to a DUI). After the 5th she ended up in the ER in that town once a week and when we simply couldn’t afford to have her in a hotel anymore we brought her home yet again. She drank all the kitchen extracts we had, all the NyQuil, then rubbing alcohol and then hand sanitizer. We had her civilly committed and the sheriff removed her from our house. She is now just released from the 6th inpatient facility. I found a local sober living house that I moved her into Tuesday but she is already on thin ice. She has no license or car and simply sleeps all day. They require a job and AA meetings etc.. She is doing nothing – in 4 days there she has done nothing. The court is not requiring additional treatment beyond the inpatient facility she just completed. She’s going to be kicked out of this sober house too and then we’re right back where we started from. Again. Parents tell their kids they’ll always love then and they can always come home. I can’t get my mind around telling her she can’t and making it make sense to me or to her. Or to anyone like the discharge nurse or the sober house when they want her picked up. She would literally be homeless in Iowa in the winter maybe 15-20 miles from our home. Who does that? How can I do that? There is just no end in sight. I know there are no “right words” for me to be able to explain this to her. I sure would love some of those right words for myself though – to make this make sense. Thank you.
Your poor family. I understand the dilemma of having your daughter home – and all that entails – or closing the door to her so that she winds up homeless in the winter in Iowa. What are the answers for your daughter?
At this moment, she is in a sober house and starting to agitate. It looks like she may not last long. She’ll get kicked out, and then what….
Sober housing provides minimal treatment. There’s a lot of unstructured time, which is probably not good at all for her. She has demonstrated time and again that she needs a higher level of care.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to iagirlsmom here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-cant-come-back-home
My son has multiple addictions- gambling, alcohol, klonopin, food. He recently stated on naltrexone and two days later he went to Las Vegas for business and says he has no cravings. How long does it take for the drug to work.
Also a psychiatrist told him that he isn’t making dopamine and is suggesting a drug to raise dopamine levels. My question- do these strategies work?
Thanks for reaching out with this question. It’s an important – and interesting – one. Let’s look at these issues separately, starting with the naltrexone.
Naltrexone does not actually reduce cravings. It works by shutting down the possibility of feeling high when you drink. The euphoria and the stress release that comes on early with the first couple drinks just doesn’t happen. The person is therefore less motivated to continue to drink. Over time, the person doesn’t bother to pick up that first drink because it is useless. It is not rewarding – it simply does not provide the pleasurable feelings they previously experienced with those first few drinks. This is the theory behind the Sinclair method which we reference in the Resource Supplement. For some people, simply knowing that a drug won’t work is enough to stop them from picking up that drug. I have seen this work beautifully for some. By the way, this is the theory also behind naltrexone for opioids. It shuts down the effects of the high of the opioid.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Lynne72 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-multiple-addictions-and-dopamine
If we are following the guidelines of your program…should there be a circumstance where we drug test?
There is a tab on the right called Drug Testing that provides some ideas of when and how to use drug tests. If this doesn’t answer your question, could you provide a little more detail about your situation?
My son is now living at home. He is 22 and is a daily pot user. He claims to be in recovery from cocaine and meth, but does not have a problem with alcohol or pot. He typically does not hold a job for more than a week or so. No other family members will allow him to live with them because of theft and violence. I have had him sectioned twice, and multiple restraining orders. I have lost all of my friends, and feel very isolated. I was recently assaulted, and my son got to the phone before I and I was the one arrested. I felt safer in a jail cell. Mind you – I have no record at all, not even a speeding ticket. He is now living back at home, and it is very scary. I just finished cancer treatment, with no help from him, while he urinates in bottles in the basement because he is to lazy to go to the bathroom upstairs, and the rest of the family says this is “normal”, and he will grow out of it. I have since started the CRAFT self-care group, and am going to a weekly support group. I have not made any decisions on what to do. My plan is to give it no more than six months, and to move, without him. Move into a one bedroom, I have voiced this ~ much to the dismay of my family ~ hoping that I will not. I have drained my finances, and feel nothing but darkness when I go home. Does anyone have any suggestions or experienced anything like this with just marijuana.
We are here. We are listening. It it certainly understandable that things feel dark when you come home. First, and most importantly, we want you to get yourself into a safe place. You can do CRAFT, once you are safe. Until then, we would not recommend changing anything you do as a result of what you read or view on this site. When safety is an immediate concern, that takes precedence over practicing CRAFT.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to laurmulhdl here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-its-time-to-leave
Money question for helping a recovering addict. My 31 YO son is a heroin addict working on his recovery. He has started a new job and is working 40 hours per week. He asked me recently if I would help him with his money. I 1st thought he was asking for money, then he said no, he wanted me help him by holding some of his money. I certainly don’t want to hold cash for him, but was considering setting up another saving account in my name that he could put money into but not have immediate access for withdrawal. I really don’t want to be a money monitor, but also don’t really see the harm if it helps him save for some bigger ticket items. I’m also willing to help him define a budget if he really wants to. What would CRAFT tell me to do here?
Thanks
How fantastic that your son is addressing the drug use and has found a job. It is a great question you pose about applying CRAFT to your situation. You are wondering if collecting and holding some part of his paycheck a good idea.
Your son asked to have his money held, since he knows that cash in his pocket is risky. He could open an account and start putting money in himself, but he knows this may lead to a relapse if the money can be easily withdrawn in a low moment.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-hold-his-money-for-him
Where do I find information about CRAFT? I see it mentioned frequently, but I cannot find any link to it on the web site.
Thank you!
Excellent question, puzzled! We do not currently have an informational page on CRAFT on the member site, but we probably should! Here is a link to the CRAFT page on our informational/public-facing site: https://alliesinrecovery.net/about-craft/. Let us know if any questions remain unanswered.
I have a question for those of you with a partner with a substance use problem and children who are teens or pre-teens. How do you support them, and what kinds of resources are there to offer them in having a parent who sometimes is not sober? In our case, my husband has been in early recovery for several years, but has periodic relapses where he gives in to cravings and drinks at home in the late afternoon and evening, sometimes for a period of many days before I notice because he simply seems more remote or tired (he works from home, and I work at an office most days). My two kids, now both in high school, don’t want to talk with me about it. Their dad and I are pretty open with them about the fact that he is going to daily AA meetings, and he told them at the end of August that he had been drinking again, and “gotten caught”(not the wording I would have chosen, but I’m not choosing.). (I think the kids likely knew already–it was summer break and they were home, but it was important that we try try to make it ok to talk about.) Friends have suggested Alateen to me, but frankly, I’m not sure the AA framework would be helpful to them, I think it might be more scary than supportive, and I know that neither child seems at all interested. The way my husband’s drinking has been evident in the family has, as far as I know, been limited to his being withdrawn, or occasionally being more crude in his humor than he would be while sober. Simultaneously, he’s reliable, always picking them up from school, cooking dinner, writing them a note before he leaves for his morning meeting, etc. I would welcome any advice.
Your husband works at home and occasionally drinks, though he is active in recovery activities. Getting “caught” for drinking is the way many of us think, when our use has gone underground. Your teenagers know about your husband’s addiction but prefer not to talk about it.
I wonder if an occasional but regular family meeting with a good family therapist would facilitate a conversation. I think hearing from his children would support his recovery. Your children do need some way of talking and understanding your husband’s addiction.
Also, we have posted information about the Sinclair method which involves taking the drug naltrexone, an opioid blocker. Your husband would take the drug daily, perhaps in front of you, and would continue onward, slipping up with the drinking. Naltrexone takes away the euphoria of alcohol, so your husband would drink less.
Hi I’m new here, but not new to the trials and tribulations of addiction. My daughter will be 25 in November. She has been in and out of rehabs since she was 18. Her addiction has only gotten worse and worse. I tried having her home recently, but she relapsed almost right away; lost her job and spent her entire paychecks on drugs. I wound up picking her up off of the streets after she was gone for about a week. She looked horrible and was very high, emotional and violent. I was able to get her Baker Acted for a week. While in the psych unit she was not being cooperative with an aftercare plan (to rehab) so I filed a Marchman Act here in FL. She wound up going willingly (somewhat) to a rehab which she chose about an hour away from our home. She has already left once, but came back right away (did not relapse). Now she is looking to take off once again, but this time I believe there will be serious relapse. Even with a Marchman Act, they can still leave. Then good luck finding them. I happen to know this information because on my home computer her facebook messages are visible (she must have never signed out when she was here). So here I am seeing all of her scheming to leave rehab. Contacting anyone and everyone to come get her out of there. These people she is contacting are NOT GOOD. Very dangerous people. I let the rehab know of her intentions, but have not told her that I know anything. It is very hard to stay in my lane when I see these messages. But I don’t want to not be able to see them, because if she does leave and is in danger or the police need to find her to pick her up to take her back to be in compliance with the Marchman Act, its the only way I might have a chance of knowing where she is. Its so scary when she is out there. In addition to the danger of overdosing, she also puts herself in serious harms way. I know for a fact that she prostitutes herself and has been raped in the past. Not to mention unsafe sex. She has mental health issues, including bipolar, ADHD, anxiety, BPD, which are all untreated when she is out using. She leaves these places with NOTHING. Not a phone, no ID, no clothes NOTHING. I am at a point where I really want to step back and walk away and let her suffer her consequences. However, there really is a danger component here. But then again, I’m not supposed to “save” her anymore. So I am really torn about what to do. If she leaves treatment AGAIN what do I do if and when she calls me to come get her? By the time she does call she is always in really bad shape. But she wants me to get her and not get help. Last time she was begging to just come home. But I know that is was not possible because she will just leave here and not abide by any rules or boundaries. We have good insurance and she can go to rehab pretty much any time she wants. I’m not sure if this is a blessing or a curse. Because she knows she can go out there and then when she gets tired, just come back in and go to rehab. Its a very vicious cycle. I don’t want to cut her insurance because she might really need it for some serious medical care (she has hep c and has not been able to stay clean long enough to treat it). When she turns 26 she will not be on our insurance any more and there will be no more plushy rehabs for her. I’m sure my story is not unique by any means. I just can’t seem to be able to detach in a way that I am supposed. Its consuming me knowing that although she is in rehab right now, she has no intention of staying and will get herself back into the same predicaments as before. As I write this it is clear to me that I need to walk away. But I just can’t seem to do it 🙁 I wish she could use drugs “in moderation”. But most people don’t use heroin and crack in moderation. And she is absolutely an all or nothing person. I can’t be a part of that.
It is so hard to stay in your lane, as you say, but you’re doing it. Welcome to the AiR family.
First off, looking at your daughter’s postings on facebook is fair game. As a family member, you need information to know how to respond. It’s not about sharing that information with your daughter so much as it is about knowing what is going on. There will be a grey zone always, but if the information is locatable, locate it.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to tinasananes here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-about-to-be-back-on-the-streets
I’m so grateful for this program and website. It has helped me so much in my relationship with my boyfriend and now I have a question. We’ve been together about a year and a half, and we don’t live together. I think this program has been a big factor in his decision to seek treatment for the first time in his life at age 54. A victory 🙂 He’s accessing treatment through Kaiser Permanente, which is a slow process with their bureaucracy and his unpredictable schedule working retail makes it hard to schedule appointments. But he’s done an intake and orientation with their addiction medicine dept and seen a psychiatrist. He’s a binge drinker, and sometimes when he drinks, he abuses Ambien. In the aftermath of a binge, he will feel shame and remorse and may abuse Ambien to check out.
My question is about moderation, I see from the materials this can sometimes be part of this program. He’s not sure right now whether his goal is moderation or abstinence. When he’s with me, he doesn’t binge, he can have a few drinks but not take it too far. He does get buzzed enough sometimes to have annoying behaviors like talking a lot and not listening to what I’m saying. He get very self-focused when usually he’s a very considerate and empathetic person. When he’s alone, he will binge, sometimes to blackout stage.
I have decided to consider moderation acceptable for now, and see what goals he develops in treatment. My question is, is this a good decision and how do I decide when he’s crossed the line into too much drinking? We’re invited to a family dinner and there will be drinking, my brother loves to make cocktails. We’ve been to their house several times without him drinking to excess, maybe 3 or 4 drinks at the most. (He has a high tolerance as you can imagine.) How do I handle this situation? It breaks my heart not to include him in these family events and it hurts him, too. He’s not at a place where he can be the only adult not drinking. I so appreciate any guidance you can give. Thank you so much and sorry for the long post.
Thank you for your kind words. We are so glad your boyfriend is exploring his drinking and is accepting of treatment. Also good that he is getting treatment covered, though this can be understandably frustrating with the logistics as you note.
The studies of moderation show that some people can indeed moderate their drinking. The study outcomes demonstrate that the more one is in the habit of drinking, the less this holds true. This makes sense. It is as though there is an invisible line, and, once crossed, moderation is no longer a possibility. So where is your boyfriend? Has he crossed the line? We take a look at the case study of one couple who tried moderating in our resource supplement.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to carolina here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-wants-to-try-moderation
Hello again,
I posted the other day looking for advice, but things have shifted, and I wanted to provide some additional information.
After weeks of completely ignoring my texts (I would periodically send my son messages saying that I hoped he was safe; that I love him; that I wished our goals were better aligned, etc), he started responding. He lost his “job” through a mentor we were paying for, because of stealing. School has started, and I think he’s worn out his welcome at his friend’s house. I’m sure he’s starting to feel anxious and overwhelmed, but is still hostile and angry. He simultaneously insists that he moved out because we go days without speaking to him (the CRAFT chill?)/ “go at” him for making his own decisions/”downgrade” him for his choices, and maintains that he didn’t move out, we kicked him out and won’t accept that. I’ve kept on point–we understand he’s nearly an adult, and gets to make his own choices, and we’re setting boundaries; that he’s welcome to live here if he will respect our rules; that we love him, but take issue with many of his behaviors and his disrespectful treatment.
We’re hopeful that he’s beginning to dip, but very aware that birth-mom could easily step in and encourage him to quit school and live with her. At the same time, we’re sure that wouldn’t end well, and we don’t want him in our home just to go back to the way things were at the start of the summer, or worse, last winter.
Thank you.
Your son is struggling with many issues. He is close to 18, left home, and had been living with a friend though it sounds like he may have been asked to leave. You have tried hard to get his birth mother aligned with how you are parenting, but she continues to be unpredictable. She is smoking cannabis and encouraging both her sons to do the same.
Your son is “dipping.” School has started, he lost his mentored job, and he may be in between couches. If it weren’t for his destructive anger, you might be able to respond differently. To me, it sounds like your son is banging around his world, pulling from every corner he can think of, using mom, friends, and his family. Poor thing. Our hearts go out to him. And to you. Transitioning to adulthood is difficult enough without all the cards he has stacked against him.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-claims-we-kicked-him-out
My husband is in the very early stages of recovery. He finished an intensive IOP last week and is starting a less intense IOP this upcoming Tuesday. I came home from work yesterday and quickly realized he had been drinking. He admitted to it when questioned. I said nothing and put my child to bed and then myself. I guess my question at this point is do I ask him to leave our home. I know that relapse is part of the process but I also have a child to think of.
Hi abc123,
It can be very frustrating when your Loved One (LO) puts forth effort towards recovery and then quickly slips back. This situation is not uncommon. Your recognition that relapse, often times, is a part of the process, really gives you the opportunity to set healthy boundaries in a way that is well thought out, compassionate, caring yet, rooted in keeping you and your child protected psychologically and emotionally (as much as you can).
I do not know if you have been watching the video modules and doing the accompanying exercises but your response of saying nothing, putting your child and self to bed, after realizing your husband was drinking, is about as CRAFT as it comes. Perfect example of not rewarding or engaging when using. I wish I had been this well informed and solid in my skills at the start of my journey as you are!
Your question, “…do I ask him to leave our home?” is not an easy one to answer. There are a multitude of answers, so I thought I might offer some of my thoughts of things you might consider. All of my examples are based off of the communication module 4.
One tactic I use is to blame myself when I am asking my LO to do something. I find that when I do this, there is less blame being placed on my LO,making it less likely for them to push back and more willing to fulfill my request. It might go something like this:
“I see that right now there is struggle leaving the more structured IOP to the less regulated program. I am being triggered by this and not dealing so well and so I have to find some form of healing for myself right now. I wonder if you would consider going back to a more structured program? You have had some success, this is a real positive, is there a way I can help you with this process?”
Or:
“I see that right now there is struggle leaving the more structured IOP to the less regulated program. I am being triggered by this and not dealing so well and so I have to find some form of help for myself right now.I wonder if you could connect with someone in your program that understands what you are going through? Would this be something you would consider or I could help you with?”
Or:
“I see that right now there is a struggle leaving the more structured IOP to the less regulated program. I have seen you putting in a lot of work towards your recovery and want to support you through this, at the same time I am being triggered and not dealing so well. So, I have to find some form of help for myself and our daughter/son. I have a list of numbers to some local recovery homes. I thought we could call them together and see if there is one that might be a good match? This would be temporary while we both work on improving ourselves.”
I would not commit to a timeline of when or if he could or should come back. I would make it open ended and indicate that we could reflect later on all of the options, once things have improved (should he return home or not?). I learned that with my LO, if I commit to anything, he would try and use it later to manipulate me and that just gave me tough problems to deal with in the future.
I hope that some of these examples help. These are just ideas that you could use. Determining what your families’ needs are and what would be best in your situation is key and you are the expert on you. I would love to hear back on how things go. I am sending positive thoughts for a positive outcome. Remember, you are not alone we are all in this together.
Laurie
Well it happened….he got a DUI. No one was hurt, thank God. My greatest fear….
We have met with a lawyer and we are starting on the road to deal with it. We were blessed to stumble, really, I googled DUI lawyers near me, upon a lawyer who is in recovery. He is a “no bs” guy. Nothing my husband said or tried to use as an excuse was ok.
I am looking, with trepidation, at this as a good first step. I think having his wings clipped, figuring out bus routes and rides, is the beginning of recovery.
Thank God no one was hurt….
Yes absolutely, we are all grateful no one was hurt from your husband’s drug use while driving.
It can absolutely be a good thing to get a DUI. As you say, his wings are clipped. DUIs can scare someone into realizing there may indeed be a problem. This can motivate someone into trying to curtail or abstain from the drug/alcohol use.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Cardinal44 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-finally-ended-up-with-a-dui
My daughter is almost 6 months pregnant and has been seen using meth. She left our house 5 weeks ago and is living with a friend. She won’t tell me where her friend lives. I believe her friend is a drug dealer, has been charged with armed robbery and has had her children taken away. I believe my daughter is also selling drugs. This is dangerous for her and her baby. I’ve called the police to tell them what I know. I’ve called her doctor to report drug use. She has not been arrested. It’s hard to sit back and watch this happen. The baby’s father is very upset and worried about the health of his unborn child. We all feel helpless.
Hi Hoopmann1,
Your family is in a very difficult position and I can really feel the worry and angst about both your daughter and her baby.
I see that you live in VA. I do a lot of work in RI and we have a program here for Substance Exposed Newborns and Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome. It is a way for moms to get the help they need with their Substance Use Disorder and keep the baby safe while in utero and after birth. It is not what I would call a great program but I would say it is a lot better than the alternatives. I wonder if there is a program like in VA? It may be a way to get your daughter to come forward. Right now she may fear incarceration and having her baby taken away once born. Participation in a program like the one in RI might alleviate some of those fears. In the program, mom is matched up with a Certified Peer Recovery Specialist who has had personal experience and been in a similar situation. They will walk mom through the program. There is still the chance the baby will placed somewhere after birth, but there are steps mom can fulfill to help with reunification. Most times visitation rights are not taken away.
I am just thinking maybe if mom knew that she could come back and enter a program similar to this she might be more likely to come out of hiding?
I went online and this is what I found:
https://henricodoctors.com/specialties/neonatal-abstinence-syndrome/
Something to read:
http://wvahc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017-Roundtable-Series-Prenatal-Substance-Abuse-and-Exposure-New-1.pdf
https://mchb.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/mchb/MaternalChildHealthInitiatives/HomeVisiting/pdf/programbrief.pdf
I hope some of this helps and I hope you are able to reach your daughter. Sending caring thoughts that things will change for the positive.
Laurie
Hello. I need guidance. My son left inpatient early, came home, and promptly relapsed. He was always willing to do outpatient and Suboxone, but our treatment center said he was not a candidate for outpatient. They recommended we tell him return to inpatient or leave the home, which is what we did. He chose to leave. He lived in his car in the Walmart parking lot of our town for six days, using, no doubt. I was frantic the entire time that we would find him overdosed in his car, but I was trying to do what the treatment center advised and send a message. We invited him to a family birthday party, and he was obviously withdrawing. I told him he was welcome to stay and be sick in our home, but if he had to use, he had to leave. He stayed. We then softened our stance and said he could stay as long as he was in recovery or pursuing recovery and on Suboxone or Vivitrol. So within three or four days he’s on Suboxone and he’s enrolled in outpatient. So my question is, now that he’s doing what he should, are we still supposed to not rescue him and let him face the consequences of his actions? It seems like all the advice about that is regarding people in active addiction, so I’m not sure if it also applies to someone pursing recovery. An example would be, he’s late with booth rent (he’s a barber), so do I let him lose his job? (He can get another one in 2 seconds, but he likes this place). The reason he’s late is because he was using his money for drugs that week he was in the parking lot and also because he was withdrawing so he couldn’t work. So to me, that is a consequence of using. But now that he’s not using, I’m not sure if that’s right. Thanks.
First off, I am sorry you had to endure the stress and anxiety of your son living out of his vehicle in such a state. That is not easy. I’m not a fan of family members being told hard and fast conditions to follow without some time being spent understanding the larger context. I will assume the inpatient center knew your son well. You did bar him from home, and it worked. Good.
There is a long-standing debate about inpatient vs. community treatment. For those snatched out of a community into a residential program, the fear is that a LO won’t learn how to manage recovery in their own home community, and thus will more easily relapse. For those in outpatient programs, the fear is that the LO can more easily drop out, and/ or that the home situation is unstable and will not support the treatment goals.
Read Dominique Simon Levine’s full response to Woods here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-rewards-for-today-or-consequences-for-yesterday
I need help with how to talk to our 23 yr old alcoholic daughter about giving/not giving her money where she makes us setting any boundaries or conditions seem like it means we don’t love her or won’t support her in her recovery. She’s just discharged from her 5th residential rehab program in 11 months. 11 months! She relapses immediately, spectacularly(ER/911/Amb), and then we start the residential rehab, discharge housing, relapse, thing all over. She has no money, no job, no license (revoked). Where she is this time, about 3 hrs away, there are no sober living or half way houses like the previous facilities she was at in MN. It also appears she met another boy in this rehab as well, just as she did in every other. We just paid for housing for one month there, but she’s going to need/ask for money for food, transportation, personal items, etc.. She isn’t nice and doesn’t say please or thank you. It’s more “well how am I going to eat?” “I can’t go to a meeting if I can’t get there” “I thought my day treatment was the priority” etc.. She complains we’re controlling her because we won’t just give her unlimited money without question. There is no reasoning with her. I would so appreciate some actual, realistic examples of things I could say that maybe wouldn’t send us in this same circular argument where she feels controlled and unloved and we feel manipulated and used and like we’re just throwing money away as we did all the previous times. Thank you.
It is tough watching our loved one cycle through use relapse and recovery especially when they blame us. The Modules here on AIR can give you a reprieve from being a victim of blame. I just revisited Module 4, “How Do I Talk to My Loved One?” I think you might find it useful in holding your ground and avoiding blame, guilt, and confrontation. Hang in there!
Thank you
Hi iagirlsmom,
Right now, you’re struggling to find ways to talk and interact with your daughter in way that will break the pattern of behavior and response you find yourself twisted and tangled in with your daughter. I would like to start out by saying that just recognizing you are stuck in this pattern is a positive step in understanding that something has to change. Acknowledging that you have the power within you to make that change is a powerful step towards progress. Although your question is not too lengthy it is packed with information.
There are multiple patterns that you commented on happening with your daughter’s situation and that is one of the major strategies involved with CRAFT: Finding ways to disrupt the pattern.
The first pattern is the Residential rehab > Discharge > Housing > Relapse > Residential rehab… and repeat.
We all know the old saying, “Insanity is repeating the same process over and over again and expecting different results.” Is it possible that your daughter could attend an Intensive Outpatient Program (IOP) and not go back into a residential hospital type setting? Or maybe start to see a professional counselor that works with people with Substance Use Disorder? Maybe she could do one or some combination of these types of treatments, also with other supports like: attend meetings (and there are meetings she can attend online like SMART Recovery and a multitude of other support groups like Refuge Recovery (Mindfulness), PeaceLove (Art program), etc.), get connected to a recovery center, find a recovery coach (which is not the same thing as a sponsor), use the vivitrol shot to reduce craving and/or antibuse, etc… There are a multitude of alternatives and different paths that individuals can take to work on their recovery. Or maybe when she is not able to return to her recovery house, after detox, she finds another form of housing like a shelter? Just some things to consider.
The second pattern is, she keeps ending up in ‘love relationships’ with other patients in treatment with her. Ok, so what I have learned on my journey with my LO is that when it comes to love interests, I have absolutely no say. In fact, I have found that when I throw my 2 cents in, my LO does the complete opposite of what I want. My LO pushes back and it creates a distance within our relationship. All I can do is be a sounding board when things are not going well, support, and then ask him what he wants to do. I have found that the relationship often ends, not well mind you, but since they are often toxic relationships, they are more prone to failure. BUT I also believe that these difficult relationships are a just another chance for my LO to learn and really it is just a natural process of life, to try and find ways to connect with others.
The last pattern you write about is the emotional tug of war going on between you (including your husband) and your daughter. Two of your statements in particular stick out for me: 1) “…she makes us setting any boundaries or conditions seem like it means we don’t love her or won’t support her in her recovery.” 2) “… this same circular argument where she feels controlled and unloved and we feel manipulated and used and like we’re just throwing money away as we did all the previous times.”
So I am hoping that by challenging a few parts of these statements and determining what is true, why your daughter makes these claims, where your feelings might come from and responses you can try that can help break the pattern.
If your daughter did not feel loved by you, she would not turn to you when she feels she is in need of help. I suspect that she knows wholeheartedly, that you love her a tremendous amount, simply because you are always there for her. What may be happening is she becomes frustrated when you don’t give into her wants (money) and then uses a coping skill that has worked in the past to get what she perceives as something she needs. It may not be that she is even aware that she is doing this. It’s just a pattern that both you and her are very familiar and comfortable with. She knows that pulling on your heart strings will pay off. It’s worked in the past, why wouldn’t it work now?
I know those feelings of frustration and guilt that come with accusations of “if you loved me you would…” but once I recognized the motivation behind those types of comments, my LO wants what my LO wants, I was able to gain a little control over managing my feelings and respond in a more positive way. I learned that managing my feelings are my responsibility and managing my LOs feelings are his responsibility. A part of working on recovery is learning how to be uncomfortable and determining how to cope. This is the very reason why they turn to a drug(s), they don’t have any coping strategies when things aren’t going well. All of this is true for us too. It can be difficult as a parent to watch our LO struggle and feel like we are contributing to that pain, which can lead to feelings of guilt, which in turn becomes a barrier to progress.
I have found small successes in letting my LO know that I love him or that I care (this is usually more reassurance for me) but then I try and find a way to place responsibility for his feelings back into his care.
It might go something like this:
Daughter: “Well how am I going to eat?”
Mom or Dad: “Dad and I spoke last night and there is a local grocery store that delivers. Make a list of what you will need for the next week and we can have the groceries delivered to the house. For tonight, is there a local pizza place that delivers? We would love to send you some food for tonight so you don’t go hungry. Maybe in the future you can locate where the local food pantries are or can look into a food program. We love you and will support all of your efforts to self sufficiency.”
Daughter: “Food pantry?!! I’m not going to go to a food pantry!”
Mom or Dad: “I hear you don’t want to go to a food pantry. I guess you have a dilemma. Maybe you and your counselor can work on a plan for the future.”
Daughter: “I thought my treatment was the priority.”
Mom and Dad: “That’s really up to you sweetheart. Your recovery is your recovery. We love you and are here to support your efforts while maintaining our own self-care. There are limits to what we can do for your recovery but we believe that you have the ability to figure these life situations out. I have to get going. I have someone knocking on the door. Talk to you tomorrow.”
And/Or
Daughter: “I can’t go to a meeting if I can’t get there.”
Mom or Dad: “I know it can be difficult to get around at the start but have you talked to any of your house mates? I’m sure that someone there can help you get to a meeting. In the meantime, we can look to see if there is a bus route nearby and we can purchase you a bus card so you get around. Of course, we care about you having access to supports.” Or maybe mom and dad can consider an Uber or Lyft ride, or finding a local garage sale and purchasing an inexpensive bike.
One last thing to consider: it is okay to just say no! No is a complete sentence. You do not need to explain or rationalize for her. Her having to have to deal with no, is a good skill to learn. By nudging her to have learn to solve her own problems and cope with her own feelings of being controlled and unloved (which I suspect is really feelings of frustration because she is not getting what she wants) you are empowering her to take responsibility for herself. You taking control of the situation and not allowing her to manipulate and use you is a positive for both parties. You and dad finding strategies for coping with the difficult feelings of guilt and frustration will help you gain confidence in setting healthy effective boundaries.
All of this is some tough stuff. It takes practice, practice, practice. Be forgiving of yourself and expect mistakes. It’s baby steps over time that you will start to see progress. I have found it often gets worse before it gets better because you are breaking a pattern that everyone is very comfortable with. If you don’t follow the typical roles expected of you and her usual strategies fail to work, she may just get more frustrated and she will have to learn to adjust. Sticking to it will produce change over time.
I hope this helps. Of course, all of these thoughts are just suggestions with the hopes that it might inspire creativity on your part to find solutions that will work in your situation. I wish you all the best and remember, you are not alone in this.
Laurie
Thank you for the considered response. I am so frustrated. I think I am still looking for a “solution” to this problem and am finding that this will simply never end. For forever. Our daughter has done multiple IOPs, and cycles through counselors with each location change. She’s tried the craving drugs, but once she is discharged or unsupervised she simply doesn’t take them. We did give her a bicycle and have previously bought bus passes and such in other locations, including uber for IOPs when she was out of state. But she can’t stop drinking unless she is in residential. Now that she’s done 5 residential stints our insurance is cutting off at 7 days for those. IOP is more open ended but she then doesn’t go b/c too much effort without a car (her license revoked). Iowa really doesn’t have shelters the way that MN did (she was in the St Paul area which is a recovery mecca), and you have to be sober to be in one anyway. The only other option we have is to leave her homeless – literally on the streets. We don’t know how to do that realistically. So we just keep going round and round endlessly. I don’t know what I was thinking asking about how to communicate better with her – seems like that is so far down the priorities right now. Thank you, sincerely, for your detailed response. I feel like I was heard.
Naltrexone is the drug that helps with drinking. It doesn’t reduce cravings as much as it takes away the euphoria of the alcohol, making drinking “naturally” less interesting. People find this helps them cut down.
As you have found out, taking the drug every day is the hard part. That is why we suggest the monthly injection of naltrexone called Vivitrol. This could still be an important wedge in her drinking.
Cycling through multiple treatments is the path forward. While it feels like it fails, and you sound defeated, treatment remains the best chance for a breakthrough.
How you communicate with your daughter is at the top of the list in our mind. It is how you negotiate, set your limits, push off responsibility onto her…..and so much else.
As for which treatment and how to pay for it, let’s continue the conversation offline to see if we can help.
My son’s drug of choice was always alcohol beginning in his teens and he is now 33. After many relapses, rehabs, IOP’s and bad sober homes, we had detached because he was using and we were waiting for him to contact us when he was ready. When he called we found out he was snorting heroin and had elected OP methadone. He did well for 13 mos and then relapsed turning to injecting heroin. He has stopped injecting since Jan but is relapsing frequently on alcohol and continues on daily methadone 50 mg. Currently in detox and considering his next move. We are all interested in programs at BMC. How to get started? He has burnt out on AA but seems like he could use a sober coach or sponsor. I think he needs a good evaluation for depression and management of his anxiety, and has used vivatrol, campral in past. How soon can he get on suboxone? He says he’s afraid to give up methadone because if he is abstinent he could die if he slips up.
Dear Lucy@: Your son is in a detox for alcohol and opioids. He is on a maintenance dose of methadone.
Your son is correct to be worried about “slip ups” with opioids and overdose. Half the overdose deaths now are due in part to fentanyl in the mix. People selling drugs are mixing in fentanyl. A tiny amount is all that is needed to make a drug (cocaine, heroin, even street cannabis) much stronger.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Lucy@2018 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-on-methadone-and-frequently-relapsing-with-alc
How should I continue the conversation when I do reflective listening and instead of my loved one continuing to talk, she just says “yeah”, as in I got it correct?
It’s hardest when the person doesn’t talk much. “Is there more?” or “help me to understand” are the two follow-up questions I find useful in jump starting the conversation.
I have a 30 year old son that has been dealing with addiction for over 15 years. He has been to rehab several times and we have helped him countless times. He also has a 2 year old son. He has been homeless and after we decided to not help him any longer or better decided to no longer enable him, he checked himself in a 30 day program at the Salvation Army. He is leaving in 7 days and he is asking for us to pay the sober home living as he is totally broke. We said yes to his request and now he is asking us to pay for his car and insurance. He has not had a real job in 9 months and has a debt close to 40k. We are concerned that he might not be able to find a job without a car but his insurance is so expensive because of all the accidents he has had. We believe we should help him with the sober living at the beginning but not with the car and insurance and others. Please let us know if we are on the right path. I would love to hear your comments.
Thanks
It’s a good move to shift the pattern between you and your son by not paying for things while he was using. Well done. He checked himself into a 30-day program at the Salvation Army – good for him. You’ve agreed to pay for his sober housing once he leaves this program. This also lines up with what we’d recommend: supporting the sober housing and the financial support to stay in the house. Sober houses help people find jobs, but certainly – especially in our society – the issue of a car is another concern.
I wonder what the sober house administration would say about the car. Is it necessary? Certainly many people arrive at sober housing without transportation, with a host of reasons for why the car is gone.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mariaburt here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-asked-us-to-pay-for-his-car
I’m considering allowing our recovering addicted daughter to move home because we are helping to raise her 5 year old son. I would like drug testing to be a part of our contract. Does anybody have any advice on how to do a home drug test for opiates, etc or one to send to a lab?
Dear Hellojello,
Thanks for writing in with this question. We have written about this topic in the past (see “drug testing” in the topics tab on the right.) Here is a link to a post which considers the idea of family members doing drug testing from a CRAFT perspective. There are many angles to consider and it’s clear from the responses that each situation is different, so there’s no “one size fits all” approach to this decision. I’d recommend reading the post as well as the comments that follow it from various Allies Members sharing of their experiences with home drug testing: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-drug-testing-at-home
Specifically, here is a product to consider https://premierbiotech.com/innovation/ to use with your daughter.
I hope this information is helpful. Keep us posted about your situation and any other questions that you have.
Best,
Emily
Hi hellojello,
Just wanted to share what my husband and I did when we let our son move back home to work on his recovery. We created a structure of boundaries that he had to abide by in order to live in house: attend an IOP, go to counseling with us (we are a family of adults and we need help in communication), attend group meetings as required by his clinic, submit to random drug testing, etc…
If he could stay within these boundaries he was welcome to stay. If not, we understood, and would support him trying to find somewhere else that would be more suitable to his needs. He chose to come home and so random drug testing was a part of it. And honestly, the random drug testing was for me not for him and I made sure he knew that. I was not going to be able to sleep if I was always wondering or guessing if he was using or not. It also relieved me of the cat and mouse game of if I suspected he was using and then trying to prove it.
We did however use drug testing strategically. We often made sure to test when we were sure that he was NOT using. I would often preface the process with a comment like, “I am really confident that you are not using, this is just to keep everyone accountable.” This gave us the opportunity to show our son we believe in him and it gave our son the opportunity to show he was working on his recovery. Often times he was happy to take the test. Even now he talks about how testing him kept him accountable.
We found this ended up working well. When he was not using, he was very agreeable and wanted to show me he was not using, so testing was a way for him to show his progress. When he was using and we tested two things came to light 1) he stalled for hours and came up with all sorts of reasons why he did not have to pee. very telling. And 2) he started to tell us he slipped up and there was no need test. In both of these instances we were able to start a conversation about what resource he needed to reach out to and what changes he needed to make to work towards relapse prevention.
I also believe that handling things in this manner kept his slips to a day or two and they did not move into a full blown relapse. My husband and I were able to capitalize on all of the efforts our son been working on day to day, month to month, on his recovery. When he had a slip, he often became very depressed and felt he had let everyone down including himself. He expressed he felt as if he had to go back to square one and start all over. We were able to intervene during these times of defeated thinking and remind him of all he had accomplished (even if it was just a short period of time) and that in our minds we were not throwing all of his good work away. His slip did not negate all that he had accomplished. When recovering from any illness it is often not a straight line process.
I hope this helps. I know that drug testing at home can become a pretty hairy situation. My husband and I had to ask ourselves questions like: what if he goes into a full relapse? or what if he refuses to test once he moves in? or when is it time to stop testing?
We made it clear with one another and our son that the consequences of continued use was he would have to find another option other than our house, refusal of testing was again grounds to find another housing option (and we find that delaying or refusing was a sign that was using) and testing lasted for about 3 years (Naturally just happened that way).
We also had to determine when he was in a full blown relapse vs. just a slip.
There is a lot to consider when considering testing in the home. I hope my family’s experience will be of some help. I hope goes well with your daughter and your family.
My loved one has stopped using drugs and alcohol as he realized abuse was draining our relationship and bringing it close to breaking points. Saving the relationship has become the priority for him and he decided to cut alcohol completely very recently. We had been planning for months to move in together in a few weeks time yet after many promises being broken and after the break of trust that happens when addiction is still active, I find myself resisting this move. I fear being blind to other red flags, I fear more promises being broken, I fear turning into the fool of the situation. While he has given me reason to believe he wants to stay sober and respect my boundaries, I feel the love for him has been clouded because of the continuous break of trust and the fights that addiction causes. Moving in with me would provide that sober environment that could support his transformation yet it means him moving to another country where I would be his main contact and support – potentially financially too. I don’t know if I should wait for more signs of his recovery or make him feel my full support and trust in his recovery by welcoming him to the life I have built abroad. I want him to feel fully supported in his commitments and I know how important the relationship is in this yet I feel drained and fearful of being hurt and disrespected again.
I hear the love you have for this person and also the love you have for yourself. You have reason to be concerned as moving in together is a step closer to a commitment. Clear communication is vital moving forward. Do not hesitate to put a pause to the relationship until you are completely ready. So maybe it’s best to not rush. If things are meant to move forward then more time to restore trust will only benefit the relationship. It will also mean more respect for each other.
Thank you gptraveler! This rings true to me and it feels I can give myself the freedom of taking the time I need to make a grounded and centered choice, instead of being moved by the fear of what would happen if I weren’t to say yes right away. Thanks for contributing with your experience!
You are in a relationship with someone with addiction issues. It has caused your relationship to fray, though he is making an effort now. The question is whether to go through with having him move in with you, which involves his moving to a new country.
I feel your tenderness towards your partner and the desire you both have to make the relationship work. It is great news that he is making efforts to clean things up. This is encouraging. Yet you don’t trust him completely… He is in early in sobriety. This is a tenuous time during which the Loved One requires a strong system of support.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to flamingarcher here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-he-move-in-with-me
My 21 year old daughter has started drinking again after 1 and 1/2 years abstinence. We pay for 1/2 of her rent college and car insurance. She just ended a relationship with a 32 yo who relapsed to heroin. They were living together and she called us for help to get out of their apartment. She now thinks that she was drinking because she wasn’t medicated for her bipolar and now that she is she does not think she is an alcoholic. She finished her year of college strong is working and taking a summer class. I am devastated. Me and her dad are meeting with her tomorrow to hear her state her case. What type of boundaries make sense at this point. Do we have to just wait for her fall? She has been in mental health and residential treatment. I know relapse is part of the course but any words of wisdom on how and what to communicate to her would be appreciated.
It is devastating to see your daughter relapse after any amount of time sober, but 18 months sober probably lulled you into thinking the problem was solved… Now it feels like a kick in the stomach.
She had a setback after a very strong stretch of abstinence. This probably happened due to a variety of factors. But what’s in the past can’t be helped. She realizes the problem and, by the time you read this, she will have presented to you and her dad her a plan for going forward.
Untreated bipolar disease can certainly make sobriety shaky. So can living with someone actively addicted to heroin. Yet, she finished her semester strong and is holding down a job.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to aconway65 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-where-do-we-draw-the-line
I am trying to figure out how to use this approach at an upcoming preplanned and prepaid vacation to the beach. It will be just me and my husband at the beach. If the past repeats itself, his alcohol use will be even more excessive at the beach than it is at home. How do I handle this? I want to enjoy the beach and our vacation and I do not want to fight with him. In the past my behaviors were not good and I would simmer over the use until I would finally blow up and we would end up fighting on out vacation. I want to handle things differently this time. Removing myself from him while he is drinking like I do at home will be challenging in the small condo we rented. How should I handle this? Thanks!
The CRAFT approach is a set of principles you can try to adopt every day, regardless of where you are. So, while the condo is small, and your husband is likely to drink more since he is on vacation, you would choose little CRAFT strategies you can do that don’t take too much away from you and the vacation you need to have.
You can tell him your fears about the vacation and that you are working a program to help yourself stay calm and not fight.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to RecklessLove here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-want-to-handle-vacation-differently-this-time
I have posted in the past about my AD who is addicted to Heroin and Alcohol. It’s been a long journey but in March of this year her co-dependent husband was again ordered by the court to sober living and had to leave the house. She has been clean since one week after he left. It is what I was praying for since I felt as long as they were together this would never have a hope of ending. After 3 years of hell, she is now 4 months sober and has stopped all her medications for depression, sleeping, Suboxone, etc. She has not attended meetings or support groups as she has a new man in her life who she feels is her support and they talk constantly about keeping her sobriety. Although I don’t think this is enough, to see her clean and happy is great. She said it has been hard, but she now seems determined.
Because of the financial support I provided her and her husband over the last 3 years (yes I was enabling) she has kept her house etc. She did lose her very good professional job that she had maintained for 6 years in May.
So my question is: now that she is clean, should I continue to support her as she tries to find employment? I continue to pay her mortgage and bills. She is looking for another job but her organizational skills are now poor, I think due to the number of seizures she had while using. I fear she will never be able to find the stability again of the job she lost. It does not feel right to me to stop financial support when she is now clean and getting her life back together, filing for divorce, getting a job. Maybe I put some boundaries around this. Have been thinking to give her a 3 month limit on getting settled. I am 65 and have put off retirement so I can continue to help her.
Thank you for your advice.
Hi Worried Mom,
It is so wonderful to hear that your daughter has been working hard on her recovery for the past 4 months. You continuing to be a part of her support system is also a positive for you both. One thing I think is important to point out is that everyone is an ‘enabler’ in one form or another, even people that do not have a Loved One (LO) with Substance Use Disorder (SUD), we don’t own that. I am not fond of that word because when used in our situation, it is common to tell us where we are going wrong and to try and get us to do what others think we should do. I prefer to say we are families desperate for solutions, it’s just that nothing we are doing is making a difference (often it just makes things worse). It’s the people that continually search for solutions, refusing to give up (not that there haven’t been times where I wanted to give up or needed to take a break), that end up finding resources like the Allies in Recovery (AiR) website and their Community Reinforcement And Family Training (CRAFT) curriculum.
Your question in this comment is: now that your daughter is not using substances and is working towards employment, should you continue with financial support? And how do you find ways to give the financial reins back into your daughter’s control?
These are some tough questions to ask and tough to find solutions to, but I can share with you how we moved my son closer to his own financial independence in our family journey (notice I say closer because he is still not there yet).
I had done a lot of research on what to expect in the coming months once my son was newly working on his recovery. According to SAMSHA, “recovery from mental disorders and substance use disorders is a process of change through which individuals improve their health and wellness, live a self-directed life, and strive to reach their full potential.” SAMSHA goes even further and outlines the four dimensions of that support a life in recovery: Health- making informed choices that support both physical and emotional well-being, Home- having a safe place to live, Purpose- meaningful daily activities, such as a JOB, school, INDEPENDENCE, INCOME, etc., and Community- RELATIONSHIPS and social networks that provide support, friendship, love and hope. I take this to mean that helping to support my LO financially and gently encouraging and directing him to financial independence, is all a part of supporting his recovery process.
My understanding was that the first year or so of maintaining sobriety was often termed as “white knuckling it” meaning that the primary focus was on staying sober. Just hold on for the first year. I was also warned that there are points in time where he was more likely to struggle: around 6 months, then 9 months, and then 12 months. After 12 months, I was told that some of the old emotional and mental health issues that predisposed him to SUD were more likely to make an appearance.
Knowing this information and being aware of what might be coming up the road helped me to slowly pull away financially over time. For the first year our son found various jobs but it was nothing consistent. He struggled to attend his Intensive Outpatient Program (IOP), attend required meetings, make doctor’s appointments, meet with counselors and maintain a job at the same time. My husband and I remained patient with him knowing that this part of his life was going to be a struggle. When he had money, we asked him to pitch in for things like food, a small portion went to rent and he had some expenses that he covered on his own like some of his copay’s and fees to reinstate his license.
It was not a smooth transition. He moved from one job to the next and many times he was unemployed and we were back at square one. Someone recently said to me that recovery is not a straight-line process, it more resembles a roller-coaster ride. Up and down, a few progressive movements and then a step back. It happens over time and the progress can be difficult to see when you’re in the mix of it.
At around a year and half is when he found a job and has maintained that job for over two years. He is a lot more independent and managing his money better then when he first came home. His dad and I require a lot more financial input from him now. But I have to tell you, I do not mind supporting him with finances when I know he has been focused and working on all aspects of recovery. One thing I observed with my son was that whenever he is able to contribute and pay for his own expenses, he takes pride in that. When my husband and I were paying for everything he felt like he was powerless and a burden. Allowing our LOs to contribute when they can, is actually empowering them and helps to give them more confidence in their own abilities.
In your daughter’s situation, once she has a source of income, could she start to take the responsibility of some of the bills back? Maybe baby steps? Another thing to think about is to only give what you can. Giving more than you are able to sustain can lead to feelings and actions of resentment and that does not benefit anyone. For me and my husband, it was important to not go into debt in order to help our son. Saying, “no. I just don’t have enough,” or simply, “no,” is perfectly okay. Not as a punishment but we felt it was important that our son learn to cope and sit with his discomfort with us denying him. All of this is part of recovery!
I don’t know if my response to you helped in anyway, I certainly hope that it does. Maybe you can take some of what I have said here and find creative ways with the help of the AiR video modules to apply in your situation with your daughter. Maybe you can come back and update me, I will be hoping for the best for you and your family. Remember, you are not alone. We are all in this together.
Laurie
Laurie, yes your response was very helpful. It makes helps me not to expect an immediate turn around back into a productive lifestyle. I know that she is not the person she used to be, even though she is clean. I think it will take some time. Your advice helps me to feel less “taken advantage of” and set expectations with her on what we can contribute. this is a great site and I appreciate the support!
Most of your videos use examples where your loved one lives with you and how you can tell if they are using or not. My daughter does not live with me. I see her once a week. She’s homeless and living in a shelter. Says she’s clean. I have a hard time telling if she’s clean. She says she’s clean. She looks better than she used to when I knew for a fact she was using, but still not great. I think it’s because she’s lost everything and is so sad. I’m trying to use your method to get her to seek treatment on her own as I have paid and helped for the past 4 treatments. If I’m not sure if she’s using but hope she’s not, I guess it’s still ok to see her as I’m engaging with her and letting her know she’s loved. When I see her it’s usually for just a couple of hours. We have lunch or dinner, coffee, get our nails done, go browse at Goodwill, etc.
How do you tell if they are using if they don’t live with you? My daughter’s drug of choice is opiates (heroin). My only way I can tell is if she is really late as that was a sign for me before when she was using. So I have now set a 15-30 minute boundary on how long I will wait. It worked for our last meeting. Also she’s 29 years old and not a child anymore. Another sign for me is when she nods out, which she hasn’t done in our visits (except one time when we were watching something at the house late on tv).
Hello rmh3017,
So sorry for the delay in responding, many of our team members have been in transit in the last few days.
It’s wonderful that you and your daughter are able to keep up the regular visits, it sounds like you’re doing a wonderful job of keeping that bridge open and giving her regular reminders that you are a safe and supportive force in her life. It’s also great that her situation has stabilized somewhat: she has a place to live that isn’t your house, and she’s looking better.
It is indeed a really important point for you to either a) know if she is using or not, or worst case scenario, b) make an educated guess each time and stick to that answer (she is, or she isn’t) in a confident way, so that she gets used to a regular, consistent response from you. There’s not much room for an ambivalent stance from the family in CRAFT.
Also, the point is not necessarily “are they using in general”, but rather “are they using (or under the influence, or withdrawing, or hungover…) Right Now.” If not, then you engage.
Make sure you are 100% familiar with the signs & symptoms of opiate use (see our signs & symptoms page in the Resource Supplement = https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=119). Each time you see her, reassess fairly quickly, and go with that initial assessment. If at some point during the visit it becomes clear to you that something’s not right, and your suspicions are causing you to change your initial assessment, just let her know that you feel uncomfortable because of X or Y and that you’d rather meet up another time.
Your 30 minute waiting limit is a great idea, and a boundary that will certainly help her to learn to respect you and your needs.
Even though you live near enough to each other to get together weekly, I’d suggest that you also take a look at the blog topic “Loved One far away” to see other posts that have been written on what can be done when you’re not living together (https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=294)
Do let us know how things continue to progress. All our best.
Help!
1″m 1delapisa!
My son has shut down yet again. Drug addiction – adderall ,crushed and snorted – uses and sells. Subutex, snorts. Pot always. Supposedly was hooked on pain killers which got him to Suboxone 1st,then Subutex.
2nd disease – Type 1 Diabetic – doesn’t check his blood, just waits to feel like crap.Hospitalized 3 times for diabetic ketoacidosis. Endo flat out confronted him and said his problem is not diabetes. Problem is he has been a drug addict half his life. Go to drug is meth. I have a hard time knowing if when really high he has had too much meth, adderall, or Subutex or all of them. Last time hospitalized 3/9/19. Diagnosed in 2015, his former life was GONE, friends, girlfriend, eventually job, home, money. Since has lost other jobs, money, apts. Also high on the list is PTSD – of course will not attend any therapy, groups. Does not feel any self worth or talking to any one, cousins, friends, brother, family. Called me once again this am and cried for 2 solid minutes then hangs up. Has no friends in his mind. he wont let anyone in. 3rd disease is mental illness. Refuses any therapy, testing, counseling, guidance.
I just cant give up hope. I wish there was a concrete way to ship him to a rehab for learning a healthy way to live with t1d, serious drug management, right down to learning how to live day to day and keep his job and follow up with an IOP. Hes a tech guy, very smart, makes great money, but doesn’t know how to live day to day. I really think longer term treatment which he wont even discuss is his only option. Hes so into his own head, I feel the outcome is going to be bad and final soon.
Desperate as most of us are…
Just wondering why. Totally respect your decisions. Was it too negative? Sorry, short on positivity right now.Thanks for any feedback….
Maybe comments of what I think he needs??
Sorry to confuse you. We put questions in pending when we’ve read them and are preparing an answer. I wrote an answer this morning. It is making its way through editing and blog post prep….You should have our suggestions tomorrow.
Your son knows he is in trouble. Waking up in the ICU at one point and being told point blank from the doctor that the problem was drugs… It is of course much more than drugs, but drugs are at the top of the list of what needs resolving. I suspect he won’t address his diabetes properly until he gets a handle on the drug problem.
If your son is misusing Subutex (which is Suboxone without the opiate blocker) then he should consider methadone. This would be the first thing I would try and intervene with as a family. Getting on methadone, which is much harder to divert or misuse, would take care of the opiate issue. It would put him under the eye of a professional who would see the Adderall in his urine and address that as well.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to 1delapisa here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-diabetes-with-multiple-addictions
My 19 year old granddaughter is in full blown heroin addiction. A detox attempt in February resulted in her using as soon as she ‘graduated” from a week’s stay. She went back to detox 2 days ago with her 40 year old “boyfriend” who has a pretty rough reputation. They both got released after 1 day because of what seems like a contraband offense. She is homeless, does not work, and crashes at her mom’s from time to time. This past month she has stolen money from her mom’s bank account and even broke in while her mom was sleeping and stole her ATM card. She threatens prostitution and suicide if money demands are not met. Of course her mom has since canceled that card, but after a considerable loss. Her mom is on disability and works to save money for medication for an alternative Lyme Disease treatment and she has her own concerns with chronic mental health challenges including anxiety and PTSD. She cannot say NO to her daughter but is beginning to ask for help to stop supporting her daughter’s drug use. ( Internet use is not an option. It aggravates her Lyme symptoms)
The family is now considering Section 35. I would appreciate your feedback on this legal process especially for a 19 year old female. I go back and forth between civil rights and saving lives. It is not an easy decision to make but this young adult female said after leaving detox that she does not want treatment. She just wants the drug. Please share your thoughts about civil commitments for people with addiction that puts them and others in serious harms way.
A civil commitment (called Section 35 in Massachusetts) can be a first step. I agree about the tension between civil rights vs saving lives. The drugs your granddaughter is using are dangerous. Her behavior includes actions that are illegal, like stealing. I would err on the side of safety and go through with the civil commitment. A civil commitment, however, is but a small piece of a larger treatment plan.
Thank you for caring about your granddaughter and for reaching out. As we have written here before, an important step in this process is to see if she will consider Methadone or Suboxone. The civil commitment should be able to set that up before releasing her.
Your granddaughter doesn’t appear to have any good anchors in society. A shady boyfriend, homelessness, no job, stealing to buy drugs. She is going to need a longer-term residential program. Again, the civil commitment staff should work with her to help place her in a program. If this doesn’t look like it is happening, you are going to have to do the research and present her with options. At 19, she has likely spent years already in this alternative world. It is going to take a positive alternative to push her in the right direction.
Is there any money to spend on a program out of the area? We have families on this site that could recommend places. In one instance that I know, insurance paid for most of it.
Your daughter would greatly benefit from our Elearning modules. It is critical you both provide your granddaughter a unified front.
Could members suggest in-patient/residential programs in or out of Massachusetts?
The Resource Supplement on this site provides the guidelines for pursuing a section 35 in Massachusetts. In the right margin of this blog, scroll to the tab “civil commitment” to read other posts we have written about this topic.
How do I get a list of halfway houses? Not sober homes. Thank you.
It may be helpful to read this description of the differences between sober houses and halfway houses https://www.projectknow.com/sober-living/. The terms are often used interchangeably so you are going to need to call and ask for what you are looking for. To further complicate the waters, there are residential programs that can look a lot like a halfway or three-quarter house. I googled sober house and halfway house in Mass. Lots of houses came up.
What are you trying to achieve?
My son is 33 and currently being held in jail on $10,000 bail. They are trying to get him to a halfway house while he waits for the state lab to give the accurate weight of the heroin he had in his possession. He has been an addict for about 15 years now. He said his lawyer suggested I call some halfway houses as well. He was in a sober house prior to this arrest.
The lawyer is saying halfway house probably because he would like to see your son in a more structured living environment than is the case in sober houses. If it is possible, I would suggest you look at residential programs. This would provide the most structure. Call the help line (there are real people answering the phone who know the system) https://helplinema.org
Hello,
Anyone please recommend me a home test kit. Reliable easy to use at least 19 substances including weed.
Thank you very much,
M&T
Here’s the one we settled on in our work with inmates leaving the county jail…..it’s an oral swab and gives you results right away
https://www.alcopro.com/product/orawell-12-panel-oral-fluid-drug-test/
Hello, This is my first time posting here. My almost 27 year old son has been active in addiction since he was about 15/16, some where around 18 he started using opiates and by 20 he had moved on to heroin. He has had some periods of sobriety and eventually at 24 he entered a longterm residential program and did very very well. It was a year long program and he remained abstinent from illicit drugs for 15 months while on suboxone. Shortly after completing the program he relapsed and entered treatment again in Spring of 2018. During this past year he continued on suboxone but was struggling with cocaine while in sober housing. At the urging of his Dr. we tried to remain patient as he tried to work his way away from cocaine use. That did not work and after losing his housing we allowed him to move home for the first time in 6 years. With the intention that he would work back to sobriety/suboxone and go back to sober housing as his house manager promised to take him back. He continued with his weekly suboxone appointments as well as his appointments with a holistic doctor that also provided counseling. It did not end well, his use escalated and eventually he was using crack and brought it into our house. We secured him a detox bed with the program he had successfully graduated from in 2018. We told him he had a bed and would need to check in or leave our home in 2 days. He eventually entered detox in the allotted time frame and went on to tss but was asked to leave after a few days…he spent 4 days on the streets of Boston and eventually made it back to treatment and then back to tss and is heading on to the residential program tomorrow.
The problem I am having is his very entitled attitude. This is new for him and has been in place since going to the first detox during this recent relapse. I am really struggling with this, any treatment facility he has been in has always had very positive feed back about his willingness and cooperation. Today I had a very awful experience with him at the tss he is leaving tomorrow and it is what prompted me to write…just to vent I guess. He is supposed to get the okay from his counselor for anything to be dropped off to him. The first week he was there he asked me to bring some things and I did, the staff explained to me the procedure with him there and he was less than apologetic saying there was confusion among the staff and he had been told I could drop things off anytime. Now that the rule was clear I (based on past behavior) expected that my drop-off today was cleared. When I got there, I found I was wrong. My son was rude to the staff, saying he has never been in any tss where this was an issue! What.. really? So then he shouldn’t have to follow their rule?!? I was stunned. This is behavior I have never seen this behavior or sense of entitlement before from him. If this is his new attitude..he will never make it through this residential program. I consider myself pretty well educated in addiction and actually run meetings for a parent support group and I feel so shell shocked right now. I really would love some advice or input on how to react to this behavior. Honestly, I am so angry, scared and disappointed right now I want to lash out at him and tell him how I am feeling. Any thoughts or insight are welcome.
Dear Gail2216, welcome to the community! I’m glad you came here to share your story, to vent, and to connect. That is what we’re all here for.
Your son became addicted to opiates and eventually heroin in his late teens and early twenties. He gained traction towards sobriety in a longterm residential program. Suboxone was helpful during this time and he remained abstinent for over a year.
Read my full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-cant-believe-hes-acting-so-entitled
My loved one who is dealing with SUD is my husband. He is dealing with alcoholism and what I feel is depression. I am trying the CRAFT method but his family, his sister in particular are calling me because she is concerned. She keeps telling me that we need to do more but I’m not sure what that more is. I think that in her mind we can somehow force him into treatment, which I know isn’t going to happen. I was hoping for some suggestions on how to talk to family members who are not using the CRAFT method themselves.
Good question. We have had similar questions over the years and have answered them in the posts tagged: Family Members doing CRAFT. Look down the right hand margin for the tag. Your husband can go into treatment. You are right in that no one can force him into that treatment. The quickest way to advance the situation is to follow the steps laid out in the modules in the eLearning. If everyone watches and tries to follow our suggestions, you will be responding to your husband the same way, you will be presenting a united front, and your husband will be gently pushed towards that treatment. It is work, no doubt. Your family wants to help, a critical first step. Thank you for the question.
Is living with me after rehab the best option?
I have so many questions and the confusion is going around and around in my head.
My 30 year old son is currently in rehab for the 4th time in 2 years. This time is following an OD which resulted in him coding 3 time and lead to him being on life support for 5 days. He is very depressed even though he is on antidepressants and is bored of hearing the same meeting material over and over. Because of his many rehab stays he feels he is getting nothing new. Individual therapy is lacking and what I feel he desperately needs. He has experienced so much trauma in his life that anxiety (PTSD) is a very serious issue that is at the center of his addiction.
He leaves rehab in a little over a week. He has been angry with me and although not physically violent he is difficult to be around. He is angry and depressed.
The Rehab center is recommending a very strict sober living home. I doubt he will go or stay if he did go. Prior to coming to stay with me from several States away he had been living in sober living for a year. He was able to use the legal substance kratom the entire time and the sober living was of no benefit to his sobriety. Just seems to have exposed himself to a lot of others’ sickness. He had a serious illness in which he felt living in sober living proved to be dangerous for his physical recovery. He was only with me 3 weeks when he OD’d.
It seems best if he could stay in this area and continue recovery with IOP and additionally see a therapist. This would be difficult for me but seems to be the only option in which he might continue to get help. If he wants to stay with me I just can’t wrap my head or heart around turning him away. I have my own anxiety issues that are triggered by others’ anger so his anger is a problem for me. But, I just can’t turn my back on him if he requests to stay with me to continue recovery. There is no other family member that can or will provide him a place to live. There just does not seem to be a better option.
Thank you for your thoughts and/or advice.
Housing is such a difficult question for families. We have written about it from various angles (see topics tab Home/ Homeless on the right hand margin of this page).
My first reaction is that your son is vulnerable to relapse and should be on a medication assisted treatment (MAT: Methadone, Buprenorphine or Naltrexone, see our article in the Resource Supplement). You didn’t mention this piece in your comment… Is this something that is being recommended, or that he’s used in the past? It’s an important factor to consider in setting up a strong array of supports as a Loved One transitions out of rehab. We’ve written about MAT as well in a number of other posts.
I don’t think you should be asked to live with someone who is at such risk. You must also think about your own well-being. Taking him back out of a sense of guilt or obligation can be a slippery slope. This set-up is based on a sort of emotional manipulation – even if it’s played out internally. We encourage members to be aware of these feelings and be aware of when we are acting on them, instead of from a more neutral, centered place. This really ends up being for benefit of both parties involved.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to hayleskp here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-where-can-he-go-after-rehab
I’m not exactly sure what to post here or what I am looking to get out of it but I figured if I don’t start somewhere I’ll never get the answers I might be looking for. My Loved One is my sister-in-law. My husband and his family decided to section her right after Thanksgiving last year after her and her boyfriend scrapped their working car for $175. They have two children (10mo and 3yo when they were taken by DCF) who have been placed with us through a kinship fostering situation since then. Their drugs of choice are heroin and fentanyl. They have their court ordered weekly visits with both kids. We found out at the most recent foster care review that they are finally in an outpatient program where they are receiving methadone as well as attending groups. They are both being drug tested regularly. Mom passed the first drug test but Dad failed for fentanyl. The most recent one they both failed for fentanyl. They both cry and express how badly they want their kids back but then they fail the test and I don’t know what to think. I am angry at her for not choosing her kids over her high. I have never liked her bf and would love him out of the picture but know that it’s not up to me to decide. I’m angry because I’m raising her children and she’s out using a drug that could kill her. I don’t know what to do. We have no contact with them at all except at the reviews. I hate that they can test positive for such a dangerous drug and still get to have a visit with their children. I have never used a drug in my life nor have I ever known anyone close to me who has experienced addiction quite like this. I don’t know anything about heroin or fentanyl but I don’t understand how their perfect little faces aren’t enough to motivate them to stay clean. I know I can’t be alone in this but it feels like it.
The children’s perfect little faces aren’t enough to stop using drugs. How incomprehensible this can be to someone not familiar with addiction. This is how Laurie MacDougall recently put it at a training she and I were holding…
“Asking a loved one to find his/her sobriety is like asking them to climb a mountain … without a backpack, without water, without a sherpa or oxygen tank. And if that’s not enough, we’re also saying to them ‘You go ahead and do that. I’ll sometimes cheer you on. I’ll most often tell you what you’re doing wrong. And, by the way, I’m not doing any climbing myself.’
Was there really something that could have kept me from perseverating every night when my son was on the streets? Were there things I could have said that might have helped him find his sobriety instead of just constantly begging him to stop? Was there a way to handle my stress so that it didn’t spill out to the rest of my family?”
Welcome to this site. Your sister-in-law and boyfriend have lost their children to foster care, and, luckily for everyone, they have been placed with you. So many families are going through this. The numbers in Massachusetts alone of grandparents and others raising the children of those struggling with addiction has skyrocketed with the opioid epidemic.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to MommaB3 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-foster-parenting-her-kids
First, thank you so much for this website. I turn to it often to learn, get calm, and get gentle reminders about how to navigate the chaos. My son (35) has been dealing with substance use disorder and a serious psychiatric diagnosis since age 17 (so, over half his life.) He’s been in and out of treatment through the years, with temporarily good results until the next relapse. His drug of choice has changed over time, from alcohol and marijuana when he was a teen, to meth in his 20’s, and now to heroin for the past 5 years. His most recent period of stability was when he was seeing a good psychiatrist on a regular basis, taking his meds, and going daily to a methadone clinic. He went to the clinic for almost two years and chose to taper off the methadone very slowly until he was off it completely. He had a good stable, sober year after that. Then he stopped his antipsychotic medication and everything fell apart again: a relapse, an eviction, a criminal charge. His psychiatrist won’t see him anymore because of drug-seeking behavior and not being honest about relapsing.
Right now he’s staying at a shelter, and I have been paying for his visits to a suboxone doctor. But I believe he’s relapsed again, because he refuses to report to his probation officer, even though he knows that not reporting means a warrant will be issued.
He’s due back at the suboxone doctor next week and I’m hesitant to pay for him to receive another 3 weeks of suboxone that he may be selling. (Last year he was dropped from a different clinic because a urine test showed no suboxone.)
I’m at a loss. I want to support him in his recovery so it feels wrong for me not to pay for his doctor’s visit. If I contact the doctor ahead of time and voice my concerns, he may be dropped. That leads him right back to heroin, if he’s not there already.
He tells me that he’s doing great, taking his suboxone, no need to take psychiatric meds anymore because he’s “doing better than ever” without them. But a few nights ago I got a call from him shouting at me to “stop saying those things” in his head. When I try to talk to him about that or about resuming his meds, he hangs up on me.
I have to figure out in advance what to do when he calls me about calling my payment into the doctor. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Your son suffers from a serious mental illness and problems with substance use. Despite this, your son has had some stable periods, most recently when he was on methadone, seeing a psychiatrist, and taking his psychotropic medications.
You are ahead of the game to some extent, since your son has discovered what it takes to be stable: methadone and antipsychotic medications were at the core of his longest stable period. He managed another year without any opiate medications, after titrating off the methadone. His relapse back to opiates led him to Suboxone, which he has a history of diverting (probably selling the suboxone on the street and using the money to buy heroin).
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mw2018 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-not-taking-the-suboxone
I am new to this website and find I have so many questions.
My Loved One is in detox now for the first time. He will be released from the facility tomorrow. He is addicted to opioids and fentanyl. I asked him if he was advised to avoid all intoxicants after his release and he said “no”. He expects to be able to use alcohol and marijuana. I was surprised by this but he explained that they weren’t his “drugs of choice” and they are both legally available, so using them was not prohibited.
That reasoning sounds illogical to me. I worry that even a beer or two might lower his resolve to avoid the pills and the Fentanyl.
Is he being truthful with me on this?
I’m new to this site, and new to knowing about my Loved One’s addiction with opioids and Fentanyl. I have so many questions but let me ask just one right now.
My Loved One is in a detox facility now but he plans to come home in a day or two. Much to my disappointment he has decided against staying a few more weeks In the residential program that follows detox. He seems confident that he can control the addiction if he receives ongoing drug therapy.
My question concerns drug treatments used in recovery – methadone or Suboxone and perhaps others, if others exist. I’m struggling to understand the wisdom of substituting one addictive drug for another. Are methadone and Suboxone acceptable simply because they are legally prescribed? My Loved One told me that Suboxone reduces the cravings to use other drugs, but if that’s the case why does Suboxone have a street value? What are the risks of using substitute drugs to control addiction to illegal drugs?
My Loved One also mentioned some other drug that is administered by injection once a month but he didn’t know what it was called. Can someone explain that drug and how it differs from Methadone or Suboxone?
Thanks!
The current protocol for people with opioid use disorder is to put them on a medication that prevents/reduces use and overdose of opioids. Yes, Methadone and Suboxone are both opioids. Suboxone has a blocker in it that creates a ceiling through which you can’t feel the high if you take additional opioids. The drug makers have just come out with Sublocade, a monthly shot of Suboxone. The third drug, daily Naltrexone, and its monthly shot (Vivitrol) is just an opioid blocker.
Much of the street opioids are now laced with Fentanyl, making it hard to dose properly and exceedingly dangerous to the user, hence the terrifying death rates we hear about relentlessly and shamelessly.
Yes, you are essentially substituting one opioid for another, but the clinic medications are dosed out carefully. The person is followed. After the initial day or two, the person doesn’t feel any effect from the clinical medication. The clinic medication will vastly reduce cravings and will keep your son from withdrawing from the current opioids he was taking – but nothing else. A couple days in detox rarely leads to making you feel normal and strong upon leaving. It’s a dangerous moment for relapse. It’s become that dangerous out there. MAT is the first line of defense.
The detox should know that your home isn’t agreed upon as his place to return to. They should be motivating and searching for another safe place for you son to land. Think about it. Can you do something like this? He needs more treatment. Everyone will move faster if they believe your son is homeless.
This is a huge piece of the problem out here – the links to the next step aren’t made by overbusy detoxes nor are they made convincingly to the LO.
You want to piece together, from end to end, seamlessly, 6 to 9 months of professionalized treatment, and/or solid attendance and openness to some form of self-help. Ask the detox what can be next. Go to module 8 and brief yourself on how to do an intervention. It won’t be ideal (we want you learning how to communicate better – module 4 – and how to respond to your LO’s use typically – module 5 and 6– before this).
If none of this reaches you in time or if it sounds too harrowing for now, go easy on yourself, there will be another opportunity to set up with options for your son. Start with module 1 to get yourself some more pointers. Welcome aboard.
This is my first time ever posting a question.. let alone a personal one… but i find this website is encouraging.
I have been an active member of alcoholics anonymous for the past 17 years and I have recently finished my education and have a career as a family social worker. Many of my trainings are specifically around substance use and helping families through this process. But none of this knowledge, training or experience matters now that substance use is tearing my home apart. I have been with my husband a total of two years and believed him to be also a sober member of another fellowship. In the past 4 months he has gotten honest about using and never really being fully abstinent for any long period of time. I supported him in going to two detoxes, and then staying with a family friend who is in recovery in FL for 3 weeks. He has periods of motivation where he asks for help and attends meetings, but the ups and downs and lack of trust are exhausting. I can never really tell if he is using because he has no baseline. However, I am beginning to trust myself and recognize patterns. I decided to leave the home today and get a hotel for the weekend to have some peace and get some work done, because I find it so difficult to focus due to obsessing about my husband’s every move. I have attended alanon, drowned myself in self care, but I am so angry and resentful at him for what appears to be a lack of effort, and a destruction of our marriage, although I know how awful this disease is and that it isn’t about me. Did i do the right thing? It is so hard to know what is enabling behavior, what is self care and what is disengaging when it is this close to my heart.
Dear Hope423,
I find it so relatable when you describe the knowledge, training and experience not seeming to matter when it tears your own home apart. I’ll tell you, that is a true concept. The personal emotions involved are ferocious and sometimes unpredictable. Not unlike a traffic cop who may be skilled at directing others safely through dangerous traffic, but in the moments that a truck is speeding toward them, all knowledge is put to the test. That is where the rubber meets the road.
I don’t know that anyone can say if you did the right thing, but I think over-time you will begin to build those spiritual and emotional muscles when it comes to navigating the situation and peace will be your guide. It’s a process and it’s one that involves cycles, patterns, introspection and retrospect as I am sure you know. We don’t always have answers while we are in it, until we’ve done a few things right (and few things wrong), and can see the direction we might better take next time.
I remember a super sharp, kind therapist during some of the early days involving my son’s opiate addiction (my mother also presented a prescription pill addiction at that time and her issues became a roaring battle alongside his, I thought I was in a nightmare I couldn’t wake up from)…who repeatedly said to me, “You’ve got to do whatever it takes for you to be okay, to feel safe, and to have peace.”
Over and over she would say that to me when I would call her in crisis. She would text it, and she would end emails with that sentence. The words began to seep into my subconscious mind and take over when I went into times fight, flight, fear, confusion, or emotional difficulty. I’d quickly think – What do I need to do to “be okay, feel safe and to have peace” and then i would make my decisions.
Over time taking care of myself calmed the situation and things got healthier. If one person in the situation does the work to improve, the situation is bound to improve. That’s a promise I clung to and saw come alive in our situation. But it took some time.
You are doing the right things, they will bloom large over time. CRAFT Method, the modules, the Sanctuary page in the moments you just need to breathe, therapy, support rooms, self-care, taking breaks, etc. – those things all add up and they will all lead you home. “Home” being peace, strength, and well-being. When those dynamics are a constant that is when you’ll feel the most like yourself, if that makes sense.
ALso…I found it was important to remember three things:
1. I wasn’t alone. I could reach out, once I started to it really helped and was less challenging the next time. You have access to this site, the amazing people who are on it and there is almost always support available somewhere online or in our communities if you need it.
2. Not to give up hope. Even if it was a bad day, week (month, or year), every next day was a new day full of new possibilities, a chance to start over and take my time with myself.
And 3. It could and most likely would get better, especially if I was doing the work to get better.
Remember: “You’ve got to do whatever it takes for you to be okay, to feel safe, and to have peace.”
Wishing you much peace, strength, and support,
Annie
Words can’t express my gratitude for this heartfelt, thoughtful response. I keep reading it over to get through each moment. Thank you for the support.
After my “peace get away” at the hotel, I came home and had an intervention with my husband and loved ones, and stayed firm with his option to accept help or leave our home. My husband agreed to detox that night. He ended up sneaking pills in and overdosing while in the facility that night. They sent him to the hospital, where he was able to”wake up” and realize the destruction and hopelessness around him as he was being restrained to a bed and not knowing how he got there. It has been a painful 48 hours coordinating care, trying to section him, switching detoxes, wondering if he would leave and just give up. But I remained positive, leaned on my supports and stuck to only engaging with my husband about treatment options. As of today, he has cleared up and has agreed to go on to the further treatment. I am not giving up hope for today, because he is breathing.
You are welcome! I can tell you took time for yourself, you sound stronger even in this message.
“As of today…” and “I am not giving up hope today.” Those are two strong, powerful concepts. You are mindfully present. That is a powerful, peaceful place to be.
Stay strong, you only have to have strength for today,
Annie
Thank you for this reply Annieunhooked. So many important take-aways that resonate with me.
1. “You’ve got to do whatever it takes for you to be okay, to feel safe, and to have peace.”
2. “What do I need to do to “be okay, feel safe and to have peace…”
3. “Over time taking care of myself calmed the situation and things got healthier.”
4. “When those dynamics are a constant that is when you’ll feel the most like yourself…”
5. I’m not alone; I shouldn’t give up hope; it could and most likely will get better.
My 33 year old son is showing signs of another relapse. Over the last 8 months he has completed three 28 day treatment programs for his alcohol addiction. His counselors wanted to see him move on to a step down situation but he was unwilling. He told me he was going to do and IOP where he lives. I don’t know if he followed through. He is in the advanced stages of the disease. His most recent BAC was .460. He requires medically supported detox because among other things, he has seizures. He suffers with clinical depression and severe anxiety. He has talked of suicide in the past and has made one attempt. Last year he moved to a new town 250 miles from me. He has been able to keep his job because he works from home and is not really accountable to anyone on a regular basis. However he has no insurance. He is extremely isolated. I have had little communication with him since he returned to his home, mostly text messages. I’m not sure how to address my recent concerns about his relapse with him or if I even should. His sobriety coach has encouraged me to “just be his mom showing love and patience,” and “trust the process.” It seems weird to me not to say anything about my concern. Kinda like ignoring the elephant in the room, so I have been avoiding calling him.
Your son may have relapsed. What is sad about this situation is that your son asked for more residential and was told he needed to step down. You describe a young man with severe alcoholism. Alcohol withdrawal causes seizures and is why withdrawal in a medical unit is critical. The depression, anxiety, and even suicidal behaviors can be the result, rather than the cause, of his drinking. It’s hard to know until he is abstinent for a long while whether these mental health conditions would improve or if they are organic, separate from the results of drinking.
I think talking to his recovery coach is fair game….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to tlrunning here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-worried-hes-relapsing
Thank you, GPTraveler! I needed those words on a list in every room! I am glad they resonated with you as well, further proof that we are all in this together.
Love and light,
Annie
Well it’s been awhile and a lot has happened. My son who is still living with me at 25 is still a drug addict. I’ve done all I can to help him but he is very explosive and blows up when I try to talk with him. He found a job he liked and his first full paycheck he went out and used. I had him we took 12 two times on same day and they released him because he was not suicidal. When I went to pick him up and I told him he would have to start paying me room and board. He blew up we got into an altercation. He hit me several times in the arm once in the head and spit at me when I told him go get out of the car. As I pulled away he jumped on hood of car breaking my mirror and rolled onto street where he hit his head and right shoulder. It was historical. Police came arrested him after hospital and I had him sectioned with a restraining order in place for 1 yr. I feel like I am in mourning. My son looked so defeated in court that I have been crying everyday since. He is in Plymouth and he told me last time how violent if was there. I don’t know if I helped or hurt him. I need help coping. I feel like maybe I shouldn’t have pushed the room and board. Everyone is telling me I won’t see my son for at least a yr. But what if he doesn’t go to sober living at end of program… He can’t come home. Help me please. I’m lost
I am so sorry you are going through this. It is awful when things explode like this. The life of a family member is dotted with crisis moments. It is traumatizing to both of you. Over the years, I have observed how families reach out for help when this type of thing happens.
Too often, though, when the situation is calm (enough) it is hard and painful to motivate oneself to make a plan for the crisis. It takes a certain kind of mindset and level of energy during the quieter times to figure out where your son will go for treatment ahead of time, to prepare yourself emotionally for when a crisis might happen and to be ready with a plan. The crisis doesn’t have to be an all-out physical fight; it can be a moment of deep shame or embarrassment in your son that flattens him. It can be any number of events. These are windows of opportunity to engage a LO into treatment.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to jezabelle here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-reeling-from-a-violent-episode
My alcoholic son faces home detention or jail time for a fight with his girlfriend. He is hoping to secure a job, a place to stay, and counseling before his window of opportunity closes. I don’t live anywhere near him on purpose so I don’t get dragged into his dramas. He resists counseling – I have put him in touch with mental health programs but he resists, although he has made initial contact with them. I feel he has mental issues along with his alcoholism, and perhaps 30 days in jail would be better for him than the home detention program. He needs my help to rent an apartment, a requirement of the home detention. He may have a job, he’s waiting to hear. Do I help him do his preferred route of home detention, which will require my financial aid, or let him serve his jail sentence, which of course is free? He still is not taking responsibility for his considerable string of bad choices.
Thanks, Katiechad
What is your son saying he will do/or is doing about the alcohol? If nothing, then I don’t see your financial aid being used towards recovery. This is a big offer, helping your son obtain an apartment. 30 days of not drinking is cheaper and more easily obtained in jail unless he really shows a commitment to trying services that help with the drinking and the anger.
He is attending a batterer’s class, court mandated, for a year. I am thinking I will offer to help him only if he enrolls in a treatment program which I have waiting for his compliance.
It’s a little more like a payoff than a reward, but we’ll take it. Getting your son into a program is key. The right program is also key. What have you found in terms of treatment? Can we put a few things into place for this month and onward? recovery coach, intensive outpatient, vivitrol for the alcohol, self help meetings in the area…
We can try! I have found a program that is highly thought of and he has reached out to its representative. I can make it a requirement that he follow through. To do this he has to register with County Mental Health. Otherwise jail is not a terrible option if he’s not ready to help himself.
Then how do I say I will help with renting an apartment IF he consents to treatment?
Isn’t that a bribe instead of a reward? And you say those don’t work. Is there any way to
structure this differently, or do I just wait until he voluntarily commits to treatment?
Help with obtaining an apartment in exchange for making a good will attempt at attending treatment is not a reward. It is more like leverage or better yet, like a contract between you. It is not ideal, and may not work. The contract is verbal and he can back out. He will still have had the help with the security etc to get into an apartment.
It is tricky. Help with the apartment can be seen as softening the consequences of his actions that got him into trouble in the first place. You will need to feel that he is really going to try with treatment.
Another way is to let the chips fall. Your son goes to jail for the 30 days. This is what would happen if you didn’t step in. You then provide all the assistance with treatment once he is released. If he shows progress, you start to help him financially.
We often suggest that family members contract for help with basic needs in exchange for treatment attendance. It doesn’t always work. It so depends on the LOs thinking and motivation. You have to be the judge of this.
Our son 38 called me today and threatened to commit suicide by blowing air in his vein with a syringe he did took in his storage this the weekend. First he asked me if this is a proven method for a certain death. Which isn’t. (In the weekend we cleaned his storage because it is too expensive.) I asked him why he took the syringe in the weekend. “Because already then I was considering to commit suicide.”
So what happened before..
First he is suffering PTSD and 2 years ago he used heroin by injecting it in his veins. After that he was jailed for a year and lost his home.
After that he lived for nearly a year in our house. During that he didn’t use heroin as far as we know. He used marijuana and sometimes based coke. Living together didn’t cause much problems.
Last august he was hit by blindness. The blindness is caused by a DNA mutation. So he has to learn to adapt to his handicap.
Till now he is rehabilitating and revalidating in a specialized clinic. He is motivated and we noticed he seems suffering less to PTSD and addiction.
He fears the period after revalidation because there is a limited time he can stay in the clinic.
So facing the end of his revalidating period, he is in a depressed mood, showing despair and asked us to come and fetch him for a day and night from the clinic because at home he can visit “friends” to help him to conquer his pain and depression.
We allowed him to come home and today we brought him back, which was all right then. But about one hour later, he asked us if we again can fetch him home. Because he is in a depressed mood. We tried to convince him to stay. End of conversation.
But thereafter endless telefonades, complaining, self-complaining, blaming, repeating, manipulating, warping, including threatening including to commit suicide etc.
Because we experienced many times before this kind of behaviour when he was using drugs and doesn’t have the means to provide I suspect he wants to use drugs again.
I know discussing and arguing is useless, I find it still difficult to handle this kind of I don’t know how to call it behaviour.
What a difficult and heartbreaking situation. At this moment, think about talking less to your son. He is in a place where he really should be talking to a skilled person about what he’s struggling with. What is the rehabilitation for his blindness saying about next steps for your son? Where is your son supposed to go to next? Is the expectation that he will come back home?
Your son is understandably unsure and fearful of what comes next. He is letting you know it through old ways of complaining and threats of hurting himself. This is very difficult to handle as a parent. Your son has a set of reactions to frustration and fear that are probably more generic than a response to any specific threat. His behavior is not just a sign of wanting to use drugs. He is facing a complexity of struggles right now. Having said this, his situation must be triggering the desire for drugs as a way to alleviate all the pain and anxiety that becoming blind has undoubtedly caused.
Can you talk to the clinic? Can you tell them you don’t want to and shouldn’t have to handle his suicide talk? Either way, the clinic needs to know about the talk of suicide. This is important. Telling them about the suicide talk should raise a flag at the clinic and with insurance. Read my full response to frankstr here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-talking-about-suicide
We are doing research to find our daughter a good dual diagnosis treatment facility in Massachusetts. Anyone have any experience with Spectrum Health in Westborough or Arbor Fuller in Attleboro? Any other suggestions of places to look would also be appreciated.
Hi all,
We just figured out that our daughter (16) had been experimenting, and most likely already addicted, to alcohol and some drug early in April. She had been at a therapeutic boarding school (TBS) for almost 1 1/2y, and just returned home last Dec 2018, and we had no idea how bad her use has become in last 4 months. (she was drinking before TBS at age 14, but had tons of therapy and education on drugs and alcohol there). She openly says she wants to “catch up” and “have a normal high school life”, including regular weekend parties with alcohol/marijuana with her friends. But she has the past use experience AND she had an incident early this month (“terrible trip”) after taking oxycontin/Molly/LSD with wine. Our world was fallen apart, we felt.
She was also shaken up and said she wouldn’t use drugs (marijuana was not included in this) and “not drink except at parties in weekend”. She thinks she can handle “occasional use”; however, we have a serious doubt. She has a therapist with whom she works well, but he even says it is “within normal” to have weekend use. We know she still hangs with friends who supplied drugs to her and also drink together. She says she had already told them she wouldn’t use drugs again, but her phone messages (I check sometime) don’t show much difference in attitude. When we try to ask her about it, she refuses to talk to us as we got so anxious. She is openly defiant and says we don’t trust her. We are just terrified to see her keep using them in this way. Yet these are her last high school years and we don’t want to send her away again, which may permanently destroy our relationship based on our last experience.
Q1: How can we monitor/control her use when her high school environment is so permissive? (Grounding/taking phone and other punishments won’t work. She would most likely run and we are not up for another round of having the police involved and hospitalization)
Q2: I feel like I want to send messages directly to her friends who supplied/used drug with her in the past asking them not to provide her drugs, although I know that is stepping over boundaries and she would be furious. However, I desperately want them to be aware that they all have possibility of becoming addicts too. Do you advise against this move?
I find CRAFT helps us a lot, especially I am so shaken up and can’t really focus/function in my life now. I’d appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
‘Welcome to the Allies in Recovery community! We are so glad you found us, and that you are here! In terms of the specific questions you posed, here are some helpful guidelines to consider.
The Learning Modules give a great foundation for the CRAFT approach in general. In going through the modules, you have likely seen that there are two main goals for the family member to focus on. 1) Improving your relationship with your Loved One and 2) Getting them into treatment.
A lot of this happens by shifting your own behaviors – at the foundation of this approach is an acknowledgement that, maddening as this may sometimes be, we can’t control our Loved Ones, we can’t make decisions for them, and we can’t force them to do what we want them to do…..’
Read Emily Cunningham’s suggestions to Cozumeldivers in the full post she wrote here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-want-to-message-her-using-friends
My husband has been in recovery for the last two years or so, with several relapses, the last of which was 8 months ago. Last week I found out he has been dishonest with me about a major life development, and while he admitted it and seems remorseful, I really don’t know what to do. It feels like a relapse but without the drug and/or alcohol use. I have a call in to his social worker (he remains involved with a rehab) to verify that he passed his most recent drug test, though I expect he did. He has been attending meetings and shared with his sponsor and therapist what is going on.
I really don’t know what to do. It’s a complicated situation. My sister overstepped her boundaries and discovered the deception and told me about it (he told me he was scheduled to defend his PhD- a huge step in moving forward with our lives after several years of addiction wreaking havoc- the defense was never scheduled). While I am grateful to know what is actually going on, she acted in a way that was inappropriate (she called his professor when I told her he had postponed).
In some ways it feels like my husband has made progress, and in others it feels like this is a never-ending nightmare. I know I have to make the choices I can live with.
Your husband has been in recovery for a few years now. He relapsed several times, but it has been 8 months since his last relapse. He has been attending meetings and is engaged with his sponsor and in therapy.
You discovered from your sister that your husband had lied to you about a major professional milestone. Right now, understandably, you are at a loss about what to do. Your trust was betrayed. Even though it’s not about his using, it stirs up the same old fears about where things are and where they are heading. Being lied to like this is so hard to stomach. You have the added complexity of your sister’s involvement. Perhaps she had good intentions, but this situation is already difficult enough without her intervening in his work dynamics. Read my full response to changingthruhope here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-trust-is-broken—again
Hello
My son is 23 and a cocaine addict. We have had a conversation about recovery groups. I was thinking about offering to sponsor him to attend a few meetings, ie a reward for attending a meeting….maybe offering to pay for some food that week.
What are your thoughts on this.
Thanks
G
It sounds like you are really thinking about ways to reward your son and reinforce positive behavior. Understanding all of the fine details of how and when to reward our Loved Ones can actually be very complicated and daunting. So, I was hoping I could share a few concepts that I learned on my journey that might inspire how to best use this CRAFT approach.
The first thing to take into account is a reward should be something that is pleasurable to our LO’s and NOT something WE want or think our LO needs. So, rewards can be some form of affection like a hand on the shoulder, a smile, a favorite video game, having lunch together, encouraging words, etc… It could also be a book with inspirational ideas or quotes – as long as our LO wants to read that book. If you find the book inspiring and want your LO to read it because you feel it pertains to them, that may not actually be rewarding. In fact, they may see it as a judgement or an attempt to control them. Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to ponies55 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-reinforcements-vs-bribes
I wanted to get opinions about CBD oil for anxiety. My daughter is thinking of trying it. I am in Texas so there is no THC in the oil. Has anyone tried this or the gummies? Would love to hear your views. My daughter is 6 months sober. She weaned off subocate in February and has been doing good.
I have an appointment to speak with a well respected medical marijuana expert on Wednesday. I will ask and will post his response and his contact information.
Trying to process “the process” but the immediacy of actions (as I feel them) is sending me to post this question. My daughter recently discharged herself from rehab 3 days into the program. She was picked up by a “friend” and dropped off somewhere. It has been 4 days and I have heard from her 2 days ago with a nice casual check-in “I’m safe, staying with so and so, etc.” She wanted to come by and I said “sure but let me check with dad when I get home”. She didn’t come by, not sure why not. She has no car, no money, no job, and no place to live. I feel the need to check-in but don’t want to come across desperate. I’m worried and scared and want to hear from her. how do i reach out without doing more harm than good? Can I reach out?
Not knowing what is happening with your daughter is frightening. She did let you know a couple days after leaving treatment that she was okay. How about asking her to check in every two days with the same message? Are you texting? Perhaps something like this:
I am having trouble staying calm. I’m very worried. Could you check in every two days and let me know you are okay? If you’re not okay, I will do everything I can to get you some help. Please keep talking to me. Love mom.
CRAFT asks you to maintain the bridge between you. Yes, reach out. Tell her you are having a hard time. Remind her you are there when she is ready for help.
I’m new to the site but not new to living with and parenting a child with addiction. I have viewed the welcome video, the site video and a few modules. I see people talk about CRAFT but I don’t know what that stands for. Is there a definition available?
Hi jdaggett, and welcome to the Allies In Recovery community!
That’s a good question – we do talk about CRAFT a lot on this site! CRAFT is an evidence-based, proven family coaching method. It has been studied extensively by the National Institute of Health, among many other esteemed organizations. It has been found to be highly successful in getting a Loved One into treatment.
CRAFT stands for Community Reinforcement and Family Training. Here is a link to an overview on our public (non-member) website about CRAFT: https://alliesinrecovery.net/about-craft/
I hope this is helpful. There is a lot to explore on the member site. We’re glad you are here, and we know that if you are here, you are most certainly dealing with a lot. We are here for you, and welcome all of your questions.
Kindly,
Emily
My son’s drug is meth. He has been in and out of jail for his drug use for years. He finally racked enough points to go to prison. Right away he was ready for change. I asked why now and he said he never thought he would go to prison. He stayed clean the 13 months he was there. He read his Bible, memorized scripture, prayed, went to classes… but not 12 step program… another one. When he got out he had to do treatment 3 times a week and over 6 months down to 1 time a week. He often came home and shared. He was involved in church, life groups and on the welcoming committee. He got involved with a girl. Wasn’t going to for a year. She came on to him. He thought she was the one. After he told her his background and told her parents (who all supported him) she broke up after 10 weeks. He was devastated. He stayed strong for about another 2 months until the family started to see a change. He kept saying he was not using… but after a few more months we got into it cause he would not let me know when he was leaving. He then stayed away for 6 weeks. I would contact him via text. Send him things… no response. I would ask if he was ok and once a week he would say he was. He finally came home last week. Was sick with a cold, and it was his 32nd bday. When he first came home he shared everything… about 3 hours we talked. He did say he needed a counselor, but only drank and not often so he did not need treatment. I asked if I could help find a counselor. He said yes. 3 days later I shared what I found. He would not answer..
So no go. The next day I asked him what his plan was. I told him even though be no longer had a car (bad choice…tried to help a girl get “sober” and her exboyfriend destroys his car. We told him we could help if he wanted it as long as he was ready to no longer hang with these “friends”. He said no, that he already had plans with them. He knew we were having a bday dinner for him on Sat. At olive garden. He left Friday afternoon while I was at work. When I texted him he said he wanted to see his bro. and family and have dinner. I picked him up at a Starbucks. He had dinner… we watched a movie together. I hoped he would go to church with us. He even told me to wake him up at 10:15 so he could get ready. When I went down the next morning he was gone. It is going on a week. I again have been sending him messages. I have asked twice if he is ok.. no response. Not sure if I should have done anything differently. Also when he is using meth, I often cannot tell. Is that unusual?
Onedayatatime
Methamphetamine is a very difficult drug to stop. Your son has made real efforts. Going to prison forced him to abstain for 13 months. Since coming home things have been sketchy. Your account reminds me so much of Beautiful Boy, by David Sheff. The book is a father’s story of his own journey through his son Nic’s methamphetamine addiction.
Methamphetamine users binge. They use for days, so they disappear for days. The drug is the most problematic in that it takes a very long time for the mind and body to recover from it – longer than any other drug. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to onedayatatime here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-wont-answer-my-texts
Hi there. My 30 year old son moved back in Jan 1st after 3 months in rehab for cocaine addiction. He had also been abusing alcohol in order to help soften the come down from the drug. He has been a marijuana smoker from about the age of 16. He was doing really well – going to meeting twice a week, checking in with his sponsor, working his 12 steps, no substance abuse for 6 months but In the last 3 weeks this has fallen off. He has started back smoking weed and meeting attendance is down. I on his request had been controlling his money and giving him a daily allowance for food and weekly for gas which he had to account for. But as you can imagine this became exhausting and was also leading to me interrogating him and showing signs of mistrust . Today we had a semi- melt down and he says he wants back control of his money and will be looking to move out. He has a good job and is maintaining that. He says That he cant start back with all the accusations and the control issues. I told him I am scared he will relapse and go back to his former self. He told me that person is gone but today I saw all the pre-rehab signs like anger coming back .Later today he sent me long whats app messages about how ashamed he was of his reaction and that I was right he was slipping in his program. He said he went to a meeting and called his sponsor ( who says he didn’t ) And then he went out in the evening on a “date” and coming home hit his truck. Said he was not under the influence of drugs but instead of coming and telling us he opened our fridge and drank! Again this morning he’s ashamed but is maintaining he was sober at the time of the accident. And he has called his sponsor this time. I’m scared, scarred and full of mistrust! Can your program help me? I have been attending Alanaon twice a week for 7 months. But seemed to have had little success. HELP!
Your son is relapsing after a good amount of time. You’re seeing it in his behavior and in the return of his anger. You are full of mistrust, which makes complete sense. Trust takes a long time to fully return and the family is likely to be on the lookout for any trouble.
Your world is immediately turned upside down and all the fear is back. What to do?
…Control and interrogations won’t solve the problem, and can cause a breakdown in communication. Learning Module 6 talks about how to respond to use. Can you review it? You are going to need to work both Learning Module 5 and 6 to manage your response to him over the next couple weeks and help frame your communications with him in general.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to milliemouse here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-feeling-scared-and-mistrustful
I will be starting the 34th page of comments. I have had a very bad week because my addict and my 18 yr old cat have. Son was driven in ambulance Friday night because of Diabetic Ketoacidosis – 3rd time in 3 yrs. Dx 4 yrs ago at age of 26 with T1D. This episode was the worst yet. When he made it to my house grabbing his stomach horrible pain in his face, shivering so bad, I had never seen anyone in that bad of pain and sickness, I asked him what is it? Before calling ambulance, painfully he replied “withdrawing”, I asked from what? He said everything. It took 2 paramedics to hold him down to put iv in his arm due to his shaking, hypertension, sickness. Had he not woken from sleeping for 3 days he would have slipped into coma and died, done.I say it was the grace of God that woke him up and make it to my house. He should have called 911 from his house and gotten to the hospital.
I watched him working so hard to breath out high levels of blood acids called ketones. This condition occurs when there isn’t enough insulin in the body. No he didn’t even have insulin for 4 – 5 days. His very life is insulin dependent.
Because he was incoherent in the er every single hospital employee I spoke with knew from me that he is an addict to crystal meth, adderall, and suboxone dependent.
Upon waking on and off the following day a Endocrinologist, hospitalist, psychiatrist came to visit. The endo was present with our small family. Older son and wife, sons father, my ex and myself.Endo got to read everything in his chart. Had no clue dr was going to speak of anything other than t1D, but he had alot to say! A hero in my eyes. T1d was getting better. Dr announced to LO and all of us that he was not worried one bit about his t1d. But his main concern was “son, you are a drug addict”. (there it was, said loud and bold in front of God and all of us). Then he proceeded to tell him that in his eyes – no.1 your a drug addict, no.2 your a t1d. And pulled it out of him when it started – LO had to say – since 13 – 14. Dr says so half your life and its going to be REALLY hard to quit as it has changed your brain chemistry. Dr. said if he had the will to wake up and drive his sick self to my house – he wants to live. The doc really didn’t put any importance on t1d. Told people like my son are hospital jumpers. They get t1d under control then go right back to drugs – then repeat. Hospitalist came in next day with the brutal facts of unmanaged t1d. Losing toes, feet, dying in a coma, etc.He has never faced his 4 years with t1d. Stays isolated, high, smart as ever with very good paying job – 4th job in a few years, drugs get in the way of waking up. All the help in the world is at his fingertips.
I will hopefully NEVER AGAIN be duped to feel sorry for all his excuses about “you don’t know what its like to be t1d. My sister died from drug addiction. My son may die from his addiction. Yesterday my 18 yr old cat, I thought, was so sick I had to put her down, both sons came with me to vet. She can live longer! Older son outside on work call. LO sick son sounds good, clear head, clear mind BUT already focusing on new cell phone he wants if I will be on same account with him, he has bad credit. I will have NO EXPECTATIONS. I will crawl out of this days sad moments of thinking and feeling. I will stay strong. And there will be no phone help from me. QUESTION Am I allowed to ask him if he will be reaching out to any kind of addiction, depression help. I think the answer is NO but I could put some names on paper and give to him.
What a hard hard couple of days. Your son fell ill from diabetes and drug withdrawals. You called the ambulance and he went to the hospital. An amazing doctor explained to your son and the entire family assembled beside him that drug addiction was first and much more likely to kill him than the diabetes. So it was a hard day but also an exceptional day in your family’s life. A professional (always better than an amateur) explained the problem. Everyone heard the doctor.
This information can really help your family see the addiction as the first priority. And fortunately, there is CRAFT, a set of responses your family can take in unison to help your son with the addiction.
When a Loved One has multiple conditions at once: mental illness, Asperger’s, or a medical condition AND addiction, the family can be pulled in several directions.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to 1delapisa here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-with-diabetes-goes-to-er-with-severe-wit
My 37 y/o son is a heroin addict and suffers from depression. He started at 14 using whatever he could get. He has only held steady employment once for two years about five years ago, then he moved across the country with a woman and the relationship failed. He returned to our area using again. He was homeless for over a year. Only stayed two days inpatient after he returned. He got a job last April, but relapsed in December, went to inpatient detox for a week in January, relapsed after a few weeks, quit his job, attempted suicide, and is back in outpatient treatment. He has been on and off suboxone or some form of it for years. I was an enabler. I could only see who he used to be. There’s not enough room here to list all of the issues we’ve had with him, the money I’ve given him or the cars we’ve purchased for him. My husband has been an advocate for limitations for many years but I couldn’t do it. We are now helping him with transportation to fill his prescriptions and paying the co-pay. We are also paying his rent because I can’t bear to have him homeless again. I am so depressed over his appearance— multiple piercing and gages and rotting teeth. It makes me sick to see his lack of self-care. He was not raised like this. His two younger sisters have college educations and good employment. He was given these opportunities but seems to always sabotage himself. My husband said I’m going to kill myself over him because my health is being affected with the stress and worry. How do I accept he has to get the help he needs and take action for himself? My daughters don’t speak to him any more because of how he has treated us, how he’s taken advantage, and the threats he’s made to us in the past. None of my help has ever really helped, so i need to change what I do. I can’t seem to move past this immense sadness over the life he leads. I need advise.
Dear GingerY,
You are definitely in the right place. There is so much great information on this site. The Sanctuary for when your soul needs a few moments of healing. The Modules for learning ways to respond and communicate in the difficult times. I love that CRAFT not only helps those of us on the sidelines…as well it helps us remember to always encourage our loved one toward treatment. The Discussion Blog is a great place to unload some of the weight you might be carrying – and receive kind, encouraging, informational support in return.
I’m so glad you’re here!!
When my son was out there it was terrifying to see him turn into a shell of himself. He went from being a 200 pound football player, to a 120 pound hollowed out shadow of himself living in a baseball dugout (where he grew up playing little league, it was despairing). I know how excruciating this is.
A few things helped me begin to get in front of our family situation. One major tool for us was face to face support meetings. I found healing and relief that I just can’t explain. Not all of them are healthy and wonderful, but when you find one that is – it is absolutely life altering. Someone said in our group last night that she was told to try a meeting six times and if she didn’t like it, try another one six times. If still not satisfied, try a third location six times…if she wasn’t seeing improvement in her life by that point, she could go back to first group and they would “happily refund her misery.”
Funny, but true!
Support, and non-judgmental encouragement from people who have been through what you are going through is more precious than diamonds, in my opinion. I still go and we haven’t had active addiction near our home for six years. That was where I found comfort, strength, and friends who are like family (except not as dysfunctional haha).
Another thing was reading materials. I love the daily reader called the “SESH Book.” And Melody Beattie’s books are phenomenal. They speak right into your day. Her first book “Codependent No More” was another life-changer for me.
Podcasts are another great tool. Those are my medicine! There’s an Allies in Recovery podcast, you can listen to them based on topics, or what you are in the mood for. Listen in the car, on walks, etc. There are lots of recovery ones out there as well. Hearing ideas, information and hope from people who have BEEN there is powerful.
I was told early on that the healthier I worked to be, the healthier the situation would become. I can’t encourage that enough! It’s the truth. If one person in the family situation does work to recover, the family situation is bound to improve, that is a recovery promise.
That was all I had to hear to dive in to whatever I needed to read, hear, heal, or do.
I truly felt I cracked the code on my own life. Instead of saving my son’s life, I began working to save my own. The stronger I became, the healthier our relationship became. My healing rippled out to him, and it spread through the family. Some things changed drastically as a result. Some things didn’t, but I changed in response to them. And life got better. We are now some years past those terrible years, my son is thriving and has an amazing life. It can get better!
Maybe consider some of the above. And remember – you’re not alone, and it ain’t over yet.
Peace and strength to you,
Annie
Annie,
Thanks for the recommendations. I am reading Codependant No More. I’m hopeful.
I appreciate the support.
Ginger¥
I’m looking for more advice. We have told our son no more cash. Since then we hardly speak. I realize that most communication was related to what he wanted us to do for him, and now that the extras are gone I guess there’s not really a reason to be in touch. He is still in outpatient because he asks his dad for a ride to get his prescription filled.
I feel anxious because I don’t hear from him. I know that CRAFT says to stay in touch. Should I let him decide how and when? That seems like the right thing to do. I don’t want to open myself up to manipulation because I want to talk to him, and he has a lot of experience controlling me through guilt.
Then I think maybe he’s actually trying to figure out his life, which he couldn’t do when I was always “helping.”
I’m just looking for some validation that I’m not making another big mistake.
I appreciate your suggestions.
Your son is rarely in touch now that you have “closed” the family bank. You could see this as an opportunity to build back relations more on your terms – on CRAFT terms. The work of rebuilding relations is a vital part of CRAFT. It is an opportunity to change basic patterns that may not have been helpful to your relationships in the past.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to GingerY here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-weve-closed-the-family-bank
I’m in recovery from substances, my father is, my brother is, and my mother is in recovery from eating disorders and also lives a sober lifestyle. My youngest brother is now 18, and my parents have caught him with some beer and hard liquor stored in his room. Additionally, one time I was 100% sure he hid something like a Juul or marijuana pipe in the couch, by the way he ran away and refused to show me what he had. He got violent when I pressured him. He also behaves in the way I used to when I smoked marijuana, and goes outside late with friends (2am), and in general doesn’t elaborate on what they do when they hang out. Our household is a weird mix of talking about drug use in a very de-stigmatized way, but then also the importance of youth not using, and of the dangers of substance use disorder. I’m worried that my parents haven’t changed their prevention strategy enough, as compared to how they dealt with my middle brother and I, meaning, they just explain the danger in using substances because there is a genetic predisposition. Yet, youth especially but also some young adults biologically don’t process and assess risk in the same was as adults. This is all to say, I know my brother has begun using. If he’s like me and my middle brother, any use that is noticeable is most likely the tip of the iceberg to some extent. He does well in school, such as AP Chemistry and History, and got into UMass Amherst. So my question for you, is would the CRAFT curriculum in AiR be something useful to my family? Secondly, is there any way we can leverage our own experiences with substances to generate the best outcome for my brother, and not instead create a worse one? Definitely seeking some guidance. This last component is of particular interest to me: how people in recovery can leverage their experience for the purpose of prevention within their own family.
Good questions. CRAFT provides a framework for discouraging drug use and encouraging non-using behaviors. Your family members can certainly tighten up what they are doing with regards to your brother’s alcohol and pot use. It is too early to say, perhaps, whether your brother is approaching some danger zone. Will it turn out to be recreational or more serious use? Your family history doesn’t completely determine the answer to this question, but it does suggest he should be careful.
To use the program as prevention you would use the same approach. Your family members would watch the Learning Modules and decide where to draw the line. When is your brother’s using problematic (to be defined by the family: when he appears high? When he scoots out the door to smoke late at night with friends?). Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-little-brother-is-using-like-i-used-to
my grandson (21) made it through detox, though he could have died and was transported to ED for one/one care. He told me “I don’t want to die grandma”. I think he was literally scared straight. Is there such a thing for someone who has been drinking excessively since he was 15? to just stop drinking after detox? I asked his counselor about this. She said every one is different, but relapse is high with out immediate after care treatment. at minimum attending AA. At first he said that drinking was just fun with friends but fast forward to today; it got to the point he couldn’t stop drinking without experiencing life threatening withdrawals. He was drinking 2 pints of straight whiskey a day. I praise God he made it through detox, Its going on 30 days since he had his last drink before walking into detox. I helped in get set up with out patient treatment right away and a MH therapist for his anxiety. They even set him up with a peer, who was to take him to his first AA and get him involved in the community. He he only participated for two weeks. He said he has no cravings or desire to drink again; and that he is managing his anxiety by smoking pot on a daily basis. On the one hand , that is huge progress. Stepping down to what could have turned into a severe alcohol disease to smoking pot. But I think he is smoking in excessive. I am trying to convince him to go back to his MH therapist for advice. Perhaps manage the use by prescription. Is there such as thing as too much marijuana? While it seems to help his anxiety I think it affects his motivation (lack of motivation). :-/ Shouldn’t I just be relieved he is no longer drinking, and leave well enough alone?
During active addiction, the decision to stop using a substance may happen over and over again. But many people in recovery will tell you there was a moment when the decision to stop was stronger – qualitatively different, perhaps all encompassing – to the point where the cravings left. Instead of coming and going, after a moment like that, the motivation to be sober finally sticks.
There is a book called Jolted Sober that describes this. The decision is profound. It doesn’t happen to everyone, but when it does, it helps the person move through early recovery. Michael Pollen talks of this in his book on the clinical experimentation with psychedelics.
Perhaps your grandson was scared straight. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-stopped-drinking-now-hes-smoking-pot
Co-Occurring Disorders: Mental Health vs substance abuse: Which do you address first.
My 20 year old granddaughter is going through a very emotional and stressful part of her life. Things are spiraling out of control. I can only imagine the reason for her addiction to cocaine and alcohol is because she does not have the coping skills to deal with the trauma she experienced for several years living in the same household with her step father. Recently she has become and shared that she is suicidal. She “doesn’t feel anything” “I don’t see nor can imagine anything in my future”. She is finally in an intensive outpatient drug & alcohol treatment program, but is not participating consistently. She only agreed to outpatient treatment because because it is part of an agreement she has with her older cousin. In exchange for free rent (room & board) she must stay in school and participate in treatment. She is drinking on the job to the point on at least 3 occasions blacked out at the job sight. She binges on 3-day weekends that sets her back and she doesn’t get any homework done. She actually just quit her winter semester. She is beginning to engage in unsafe sexal relations with older men )lots older than her). She has a regular drug dealer that supplies her cocaine. She had a mental health break down last week, hysterical and suicidal at the same time. She was admitted to psychiatric ward for observation overnight. They were unable to conduct a mental health assessment because she needed to be detoxed first. The day before she was admitted for observation, she allowed a strange man into her cousin’s house, which is one of the items in the room mate agreement that is not allowed. This is the 3rd time this happens. Her cousin could not risk anything happening in her house with strangers, so her cousin had to evict her. I think she needs inpatient treatment. What to do?
Your 20 year old granddaughter was just evicted from her cousin’s house for letting a strange man in. She is inconsistently going to her IOP program. She is in danger of losing her job and has talked about suicide. She is using alcohol and cocaine and has a history of trauma. She is likely having unsafe sex with multiple people.
Your granddaughter is lucky to have a cousin and grandmother who are trying to help. The situation is serious. Having just lost her place to live, inpatient treatment is the safest place for her. Whether she tells the program or you do, she needs to be considered as a homeless person. This can help prioritize her if there are wait-lists. With this designation, the program should also be thinking from the start of where she can go to live next. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-granddaughter-just-got-evicted
My 19 year old daughter is coming home on March 7. She has been in residential treatment since November 21 (the day before Thanksgiving). She is 90-plus days clean of heroin and other substances.
While she has come an incredibly long way, she is currently experiencing a worrisome setback — just as she prepares to come home. She recently lost “mentor status” in treatment due to her not following through with “proactive steps in recovery” (job search, re=enrollment in classes, 12 step meetings, etc.). As her addictions therapist states in email: “She is settling back into old behaviors of being in contact with men who are active in their addiction and not expanding her social circle. She has not maintained contact with her sponsor and there is little evidence that she has one. She is floundering. She is also discussing having high cravings and refers to using as something she misses.” Indeed, she has visited her “boyfriend” at least 2x — the 28 yo man who introduced her to IV drugs last fall.
I looked into sober living but there are very few openings for women, at least in locations with access to light rail and other public transportation. It may not matter as her case manager and I decided she is not really equipped yet to live on her own — she graduated from high school in June 2018 and was living at home when she started college this fall. She expresses a great deal of anxiety when she thinks about having to work to pay for sober living. With that said, she will need to work and/or attend school when she lives at home, but I’d rather she ease into things rather than jump head first into the deep end.
Anyway, I am seeking guidance as I enter this phase of my journey. Some of the steps I am currently taking include: reapplying for OFLA/FMLA so I can prioritize recovery/wellness; writing up a “tenant contract” that spells out expectations; creating a list of resources (yoga classes, 12 step meetings, SMART meetings, recovery communities, etc.); and building my own routine around self-care.
I need to learn how to practice CRAFT when she’s sober. CRAFT came easy to me during her active addiction. Seems a bit more tricky when she’s in early recovery, although I’m not sure why. Perhaps because when she was using, it was easy to identify when to lean in and step back. I will think about behaviors I want to reward, such as attending 12 step meetings, spending time with healthy peers, etc.
Also need to figure out UAs! And safety practices. I had to change the exterior locks at my house — as well as the home alarm code, computer passwords, and so on. I feel nervous to give her a key to the house. It’s a terrible place for a parent to be. I may add an exterior camera that faces the detached garage she will be living in.
Most importantly, I need to practice mindfulness as I come to terms with the fact that she is likely to slip — or worse. It’s still very difficult for me to sit with that — my chest hurts when I think about the risk of relapse and death.
What else can I do to prepare for her return?
Thank you.
It is good to hear your daughter is completing her 90-day program, though it sounds like she is shaky in her recovery. She is headed home.
The program should be setting up a solid aftercare program for your daughter to follow. Something to help her adjust back into the community. I would also strongly suggest you both consider getting your daughter on medication assisted treatment, Sublocade is the new monthly shot of suboxone, or Vivitrol, the monthly shot of naltrexone. You can read more about both in our Resource Supplement.
Your daughter was living in the streets before entering treatment, hanging with an older boyfriend who introduced her to heroin. She has been in contact with him.
Your daughter is used to living in the detached garage and your plan is for her to return living there. You are setting up lots of guidelines for her to follow. It sounds like your daughter gets easily overwhelmed when the talk turns to earning a living. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-coming-home-and-i-need-help
After agreeing to seek treatment, be civil and not use in the house my son has been home for three weeks and not adhering to these agreed upon things. Feel like we are on a tightrope. We are so close to getting him to treatment (which he agreed to – but now that he is home he hasnt made the step to do – but he disrupts the home so much which is taxing on everyone else. Any suggestions on what to do .
Your son is so close to engaging with treatment, but… his attitude seems to be “I’ll do it tomorrow.” So frustrating. He is living at home and also has a big personality, which changes the dynamics in the house.
Your son has been bouncing around. Now he is home. You are watching him ignore the deal you struck: no drug use, a job, participating in the house, being civil. These were the conditions that allowed him to be at home. In essence, this is a verbal contract he’s not adhering to. Contracts are a good idea. They make the arrangements between you very clear. You are sure he’s heard you. He knows what is expected.
If the person doesn’t abide by the arrangements, it is best to view this as information only. If the information is: your son can’t abide with the deal, now what? Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-not-adhering-to-our-contract
I’m having a hard time figuring out when to disengage/engage.
My Loved One is convinced her best hope for recovery from Heroin (11 years addicted) is through moderating her use with no other treatment.
I think she seems genuinely convinced she is doing better and genuinely really proud of the progress she has made. I don’t think it’s a product of manipulation or control of the topic of her recovery. She just thinks a really elongated moderation slow down of her use is her best chance of recovery.
I don’t see her building the skill-set and doing the things needed to make a long term recovery. She just has less access to use because she lost her job and doesn’t have the cash she previously did.
Between needing to use to avoid being sick and using her other drug (Meth), She is generally always using. When she is not, she has a bad case of Formication that has her staring at a mirror in the bathroom, working on her skin for 4+ hours a day.
To give an example of her typical day: wake up immediately need to go to dealers to avoid withdrawal, spend 4 hours there. Come home same time I get home from work, immediately use, go to the bathroom for a couple hours at least to mess with skin while smoking meth in the bathroom, I’ll then go to bed, and she will stay up smoking more meth, to then use more heroin until it’s all gone, then go to bed around 6am. The amount of time it takes for her to find a vein takes up a lot of time as well.
She will bring up her recovery once in awhile in the context of “look how well I am doing, I am only using this much now, when before I was using this much” Which makes me feel like my 2 options are be positive and agree. Or add some things about needing to do more and get help and feeling like I am being negative.
Other than that the subject is completely off limits, won’t discuss anything and anything outside of agreeing with how well she is doing will immediately get shut down and followed up a lot of the time by her disappearing for days on end.
If she is pushed too hard on the subject, she will disappear to her dealers place for days. Where she can use for free. When asked during normal times “how can I help?” her response is to be left a lone. She has lived there many times over the past 12 years as well. It’s a life she knows and is comfortable with.
There are definitely times where she is using less and times I see openings to engage, but they aren’t many. I am also unsure what to do about when she is in the bathroom messing with her skin because that’s not using but a consequence of using. Do I treat that as use or non-use?
She has also been roughly at the same level of use for a year and a half.
My communication has definitely gotten bad and needs major improvement. It’s really hard when disengagement has been her main tool when she is being criticized or her bad choices are being pointed out. She also definitely knows what I think and what I want her to do, so I don’t need to continue saying it.
I also don’t know how to communicate when she is talking about how well her moderating is going. I don’t want to kill the good feelings she has about how “she is using less than she ever has before” and the momentum she feels. It is also completely ignoring the meth use and the Formication that has all gotten worse. If It seems like disengaging by not letting her stay here would also be what she wants. I just don’t know how to get my arms around it and come up with a good plan that I can be consistent to encourage the right behaviors when she is so deep in it but thinks (and in a lot of ways is) making improvements.
Your partner is using heroin and methamphetamine around the clock. She is, however, trying to moderate the heroin. She lives with you but hangs out at her dealer’s when she feels like it. She has lived at the dealer’s over the years, it is a place where she is comfortable. It sounds like you are worried that if you press her about her use, she would just go stay at the dealer’s.
There are moments when you can see that she is using less, is less high, and you know that in these times you can step in and engage with her.
Formication is the sensation that bugs are crawling over and under your skin. It is the result of stimulant use, not its withdrawal. Picking your face also happens with both stimulants and heroin. It is not necessarily a result of feeling bugs crawling on your skin, and is not due to the withdrawal phase. So picking = use.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-trying-to-moderate-use-on-her-own-but-i-dont
Husband sober for 90 days I’m still too scared to let him come home
My husband has been out of the house through detox, residential, sober living (didn’t last) and now his own apartment and has 90 days sober (I believe it). We are in couples counseling weekly. As far as he’s concerned, he’s all better and the only issue is whether or not he’s drinking, and since he’s not drinking he wants to come home. I have learned a lot about the toll that 6 years of secret addiction has taken on me, and I feel it. I am scared, anxious, and fearful that he is still early in his recovery process and I fear that he is not sufficiently engaged with supports besides medications and a weekly group meeting. He won’t even tell me what meetings / appointments he has because it’s “his recovery” – and he doesn’t have to answer or report to me. He can’t come up with any ideas on his own on how he might rebuild trust with me. I am not opposed to him coming home – someday – but I feel there is a long way to go in terms of the actual recovery work. It seems to me that all the root causes of hiding, shame, secrecy and isolating are still there, even if the beer is not right now.
What are some early recovery phase principles I should think about?
I can’t help but notice common threads between your question and the one that came in an hour earlier from another wife. The trust, love and compassion that you once shared feel eroded by years of the addiction. These feelings of deep anxiety and fear are at the forefront, and it feels like the trust is gone despite your husband being out of the house and in treatment.
It speaks to the emotional disturbance addiction plays on family members even after the Loved One is in treatment and abstinent. My heart goes out to you. Really, it’s a marathon for families; exhausting, painful, and very disappointing. It doesn’t subside completely once they enter treatment and are abstinent. Read my full response to this family member here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-trusting-a-loved-one-in-early-recovery
I had been a member or AIR about 10 years ago, but left when my husband finally got into treatment. I wasn’t here very long. It’s been 12 years of his addiction, we’ve been together 25 years, married 13. Most of my marriage and all of my sons 9 years of life have been spent living in this addiction. We got him into treatment 3 times, for a total of 120days over the last 12 years. He is a completely lost soul, continuing to use every waking moment. He stops when he runs out of money. He has used every penny for drugs, over the last 4 years. A man who used to make $165,000 a year is broke, with rarely $5. I will not give him a penny, as I support the house, pay for everything to do with the house, vacations, my sons expenses, everything… often it’s like being a married single mom.
Thing is… I’ve been in this so long, a lot of the CRAFT strategies I see, I’ve used multiple times. He is so far deep after over a decade of heavy drug use, he is almost unreachable. Problem is, in my state, unless I file for divorce, I cannot make him leave my home unless he is abusing me. He is not. He is a wonderfully, loving, caring man who is very sick. How do I live with this under the roof I pay for, without being able to get him out, and all the mounting anger and resentment. We are fighting daily now, when I look at him, I’m disgusted. What happened to my understanding and empathy that I’ve had over the years??? It seems I did everything right in the beginning and now, I’m doing everything backwards. Most people do everything right later on, and wrong in the beginning!
If only he would give me space. So I can stop being so hurt and angry. He refuses to leave (I think it’s more fear. I think he feels if he leaves, I might not let him come back. I can SEE he is scared and sick, but to others, he looks like a lazy addict bum). He is filled with guilt, shame and fear. But I can’t make him get to treatment. Again, and he is likely going to die of this from a fentanal OD.
Please explain how, after all these years, and all the trauma, do I get my patience and understanding back to actually detach and “walk away” when things get tough, or rewards when good. It’s rarely good, so the rewards are halfhearted because I’m still so mad or hurt from when they weren’t! It’s like we don’t even know how to act around each other anymore. And my son is stuck in the middle of living in this because my husband won’t leave!
Using CRAFT skills creates the best conditions around your husband. You’ve done this continuously, as best you can, for over a decade. It has helped your husband into treatment three times. Yet your husband has relapsed and continues to use. His use is quite dangerous. You describe a situation where your husband is in active addiction, home, and jobless, and you feel hopeless and resentful. You have young children who are living in this situation.
It has been up to you to keep everything together in the home. I envision a busy young family with dad on the couch, hunched over with guilt. You are working hard but the resentment and hurt is winning out. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to this family member here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-feeling-like-a-married-single-mom
My daughter has a pattern of leaving for several days, only answers the phone at her convenience, seldom will text back, only if she needs something. We don’t know where she goes, where she stays, and the only answer she can give us is that she is with her girlfriends. Everything is so secretive and she won’t tell us who these girlfriends are, where they live, nothing. We have tried to give her space. Tried being positive, no negative talk. Show her love more than she shows us. She has no respect for us at all. Then she comes in, typically at night late so she can avoid any conversation with us. Will sleep until noon or after, get up shower and take off again. Will have short conversation while she is busy or distracted with something else. I asked her the other day for 15 minutes of her time, shut the phone off, and lets talk. She can’t do it. So my question is, how do you talk to someone who has no interest in what you have to say, no interest in how you feel, and says she is twenty she can do what she wants. We support her with most of her living arrangements. She does pay a portion for her car payment, and when asked where she is getting the money, she says she has it that should be good enough. She tells me a number of times what I want to hear. Like mom I want to start working out, can I get a gym membership? We get the gym membership and she doesn’t go. Mom, I think I need medicine to focus. I schedule the doctors appointment, she doesn’t show. Mom I want to go back to school. Then stays out all night, wont talk to us so how are we supposed to get her enrolled in school again. She has no responsibility other than running with these friends that use her. She can’t see it and it is so dysfunctional. As I write this, we have not seen her for three days, she did call yesterday to let me know she had a flat tire and had to get a new tire on and used the credit card. I was grateful she called, however, I did explain she should of called me and asked first. She said she didn’t because she thought I would yell at her and I would say call Triple A. I explained she was right about Triple A, because they would of put the spare on for her to drive to the tire shop. Explained how she could have done more damage to the car by driving the car with a flat to a tire shop. She got mad and said I can never say good job, way to handle it. I did say to her,I’m glad she got it fixed, and she is ok, I’m just trying to teach her for future life situations of what to do and not what to do. She then calmed down. I did not yell at her, told her to be careful and asked if she was coming home. She said yes I’ll be home tonight and we have not seen her or heard from her. She does this all the time, and will text me and say Mom, hello my dear mother. I’m on my way home. Almost testing me to see how I will respond. There are times I just don’t even want to answer her, to give her a taste of her own medicine, but then I realize, I’m grateful she is ok and grateful she is coming home. I have never seen her high or on drugs. So I’m not sure what is going on with her. I know she likes pot. I’m tired of her manipulation and mostly tired of her not wanting to have any conversation with us. (me, her dad, her brother) We have tried everything. Soft voice, kindness, yelling screaming (doesn’t work, pushes her away more), but I’m finding other methods aren’t helping either. She has totally disconnected herself from us. What do we do?
I hear you say that your daughter is gone for days at a time, is resistant to conversation with you, looks for you to finance most of her needs, is disrespectful, and doesn’t do what she says she will do.
I know you want to help your daughter to make it over into true adulthood with success under her belt. She is still ambivalent about what that means and how she will get there.
At the same time, you came to AIR because you suspect something is up, possibly addictions. I can see why you are thinking that way.
You are at the beginning of your own recovery by reaching out for advice. I highly recommend you go through the video modules here and try to learn a new way of addressing this situation. There will be some dramatic changes in how you proceed but in the end, your daughter will get an honest look at the situation. You will learn how to step back and create boundaries that will help your daughter and give you some direction and self care. The fastest way for getting your daughter to move along a more positive path is by letting her feel the natural consequences of her actions, without family arguments. After all it is her problem and she’s the one who needs to fix it.
Yes, you want to help her. Take it from someone who “helped” for 25 years. (She will be 40 this year and it was only this past year that I really learned to let go. Life is better for both of us on the other side.)
Even if your daughter is not struggling with substances, but just taking longer to grow up, you can learn a better way of communicating without being the only one to compromise.
I have been through the modules a couple of times. Dig into those and you too will see the light.
You have made many changes, CRAFT style, and yet your daughter continues to behave in ways that feel disrespectful. You have softened your language, you now watch the negative talk, and give her more space. She is 20. It is not clear if this behavior is related to alcohol or drugs, though you suspect she does have some drug use.
The CRAFT question to ask at this point is whether your financial and housing support is encouraging her in the lifestyle you describe. Your daughter is very likely up to something, no job, money, away from home days at a time. Maybe it involves drug use. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to this family member here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-using-craft-for-loved-ones-unknown-behaviors
I know this is going out on a limb-your daughter’s behavior sounds so similar to my son’s I need to speak up. Has she lost alot of weight? You might want to research meth addiction. It is so awful to be in that space of knowing something is very wrong and not being able to name it. It took time and alot of work but my son is now is a great treatment center and recovering from this awful addiction. Here is what we did-not react and respond with kindness like you are doing. Put down requirements for living at home-be in school or working full time. Pay their own expenses-car etc., do their own laundry etc. At some point their addiction will take over manageability of their lives and there will start to be health or legal consequences-while these things are heart-wrenching, they are your opening for leveraging them into treatment. So have your treatment centers lined up. If it is a meth addiction she will need long term treatment, a small individual step down program if you can find one. Far away from home so they can’t run or get someone to pick them up while their brain heals enough to accept recovery. If she won’t agree to a treatment center you can say the requirement for living at home is that she is actively working on recovery by going to a counselor or therapist-we used this in between measure while waiting for the legal consequence that finally allowed him to see the trouble he was in. I know I am hitting you with a ton of bricks-someone thankfully did that for me back in Nov. but it is a really awful realization. And once you know what you are dealing with it can give you the resolve you need to get them into treatment-because you will have times of great doubt and so want this not to be happening but you have to keep going.
My son is on methadone, has been on crack and drinking – recently he heard about adderall and that it could curve his desire for crack. He went to his doctor and she said she did not feel comfortable giving him the prescription. Well now he is buying it on the streets – very very expensive – he has bought 2 different kinds – one in capsule form the other in pill form. He feels it helps him and he is working on determining the right dose for himself (he is having a hard time with this). I am not sure if he is still doing a lot of crack – it seems that it has subsided. He did have a drink last night and hopefully that will not affect his dose of methadone today. When he was very young – a counselor suggested putting him on rydalin or something of that sort. I disagreed with putting him on the medication. Recently I mentioned this to him and he now blames me: when he was in school he had a hard time focusing, etc. and that if I let him have that prescription he may have never gotten into drugs (he said the drugs made him feel normal). Now he is playing with adderall and I dont know what to do. In the recent weeks he has spent over $3000 on drugs and some alcohol. HELP -WHAT AM I TO DO
123peace, my heart goes out to you, for this roller coaster, for the dysfunction you are enduring. I know Dominique will have words of wisdom to share with you about the specifics of your situation, but wanted to offer reassurance for whatever it’s worth about your decision not to put him on ritalin when it was suggested. i know a man who was put on ritalin in high school, many many years ago when it was just being introduced, and he developed a tangle of destructive relationships with numerous hard drugs as a young adult… he said multiple times that he felt that the ritalin had actually taught him how to be a drug addict – it was his introduction to the highs and lows that were involved with this brain-altering chemical that he was given that he felt set him up for a pattern of seeking these cycles through other destructive substances throughout his young adulthood. that it was solely responsible for the cascade of decisions he made in the following years is highly unlikely, and everyone’s situation is of course unique… but it definitely played a part. it set him up in a way, opening perhaps the wrong doors at an impressionable time when his brain was still very much developing. you have enough to face right now. let your mind at least be eased on this one level – feeling like that would have “solved” any of the deeper issues which led to his substance abuse isn’t worth another ounce of angst. many children (even grown ones) are quite skilled at harboring should-haves and would-haves about the choices their parents made. it’s not for me to say what is right or wrong in anyone else’s choices. i just want to extend this support and perspective to at least help you make peace with your decisions in the past.
now, he is in the thick of accumulating material for some dramatic life lessons… those lessons are waiting, presenting themselves with great tenacity it would seem. and your love continues to wait for him, for whenever he can receive it.
Your son is on methadone for opioid use disorder, and he is still using crack cocaine, alcohol, and now Adderall, a drug used to treat attention deficit disorder. Adderall is a stimulant so it may be helping him not to use crack. I can understand why he would want this. Crack is a crazy drug. You smoke it until every trace of it is gone, needing another hit every 30 minutes or so. People do this for days at a time….every 30 minutes another hit. It’s as if the person is chained to the pipe.
The methadone clinic should be addressing the crack. I’m not sure whether they would test for Adderall. Methadone clinics typically don’t test for alcohol. He won’t be thrown off the program for the alcohol. The clinic will be addressing the crack, tightening up the therapy, taking away the ability to take home methadone (something that is earned through “good behavior”). The clinic however is limited in what it can do. It is focused on the opioids. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to this family member here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-on-methadone-still-struggling-with-other
January 29, 2019
My 27 year-old daughter has received a letter from the management of her rental apartment with notification of her tenancy termination and a request to vacate apartment by March 1. We (her parents) have been paying rent for the last 3+ years so paying the rent is not a reason for this letter. The problem is multiple complains about screaming, swearing, banging walls as well as numerous police calls from neighbors.
This time we decided to not interfere and to let a natural course of things happen. We need help with the following 3 questions:
1. We are trying to figure out a way to use this situation to make her commit to a treatment. And we don’t know how to do it. And she is refusing to talk to us about it.
2. We don’t believe that she should be leaving on her own and do not want to rent another place. We believe she should be in a residential program, but we don’t know how to make it happen.
3. We are trying to avoid a situation of her coming to leave with us. At the same time, we don’t want her to end up on the street.
Thank you for all your help!
Your daughter is being evicted. You don’t want her home. Where can she go? If she doesn’t find somewhere else, she will be homeless starting March 1.
Does your daughter work? What does she use and how debilitating and dangerous is it?
I generally agree to stop paying the rent. This is a moment where you can push for treatment, but it is a moment not of your daughter’s choosing, so it will be difficult. The Learning Modules provide a whole framework for learning how to handle your daughter. Don’t skip this part – it is the bulk of the CRAFT method. But, at the same time, let’s see what this moment can bring. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mashazak here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-soon-to-be-homeless
Hello- our adult daughter (mid 20’s) has lived with us for a year after being asked to leave by her then boyfriend, whom she lived with for about a year, the rest of the time at college or with us. She has had struggles with alcohol for about 10 years, being asked to leave her first college after 3 trips to the ER; having a DUI; losing friends, and now basically coming in here every Friday night and being incommunicado til Monday morning. One Friday morning she was unresponsive and we called 911. Her blood alcohol was triple the legal limit. She did the same at our relatives’ for a holiday and had to be transported from there. It’s scary and humiliating. My husband and I have been to AlAnon and she has had one stint in rehab for basically 3 weeks, 6 years ago. She recently told us the she was allowed to leave there weekends and she was picked up by friends and drank. Now she has “completed” an IOP program that seems like a lot of listening and sharing but no reading, homework, etc. She has a counselor who is helpful and she feels close to but the depth of her addiction has not changed.She drinks massive quantities of vodka or several nips and passes out so quickly that she doesn’t remember or make a connection to the hell she is creating. I am so scared we will lose her. We are grateful for Allies and will follow all advice and plans. I have two questions: 1. Is it proactive or counterproductive to search her purse, bags and pockets when she comes in? 2. If she has not been seen even to eat all weekend, should we block in her car before we go to work Monday? Two weeks ago at 8 a.m. she came down swaying and when I said she couldn’t safely drive, she demanded a breathalyzer which registered .15- almost twice the legal limit but she would have thought it was ok to go out the door and down the street past children’s bus stops, the highway, etc. My idea is so say that she needs to plan for an Uber if she isn’t in evidence by the time we leave. One day she was driven home from work by her supervisor because she was under the influence- she said she had stopped on her way and drank in the parking lot to deal with stress. She thinks they bought her story that she took melatonin instead of her vitamins. It’s so hard to be a parent and try to let her deal with consequences when they might involve hurting or killing herself or innocent bystanders. Please advise us- sorry this is so long and convoluted.
Your daughter is in her mid 20s and is struggling with a serious alcohol problem. She works, which provides a brief pause in her use, but that line seems to have been recently crossed when her supervisor drove her home because she was noticeably impaired.
The situation sounds serious and dangerous. To answer your questions:
1) The only purpose of searching her and her things is for information that you would use when you sit down to talk about treatment (See Learning Module 8). A talk will take time to set up, since it calls for a treatment list and other options for her to choose from (a different place to live? Alternatives to driving?). Searching her things can also help you answer the question of whether or not she is using, and what she is using, so that YOU know how to behave according to the CRAFT principles around her. The goal of searching through her things is not to prove that she is lying, or getting her to admit that she is using. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to hopinheart here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-drinking-to-excess-locked-away-in-room
Home drug testing? Our adult daughter is living at home after a residential program due to long term amphetamine abuse. She is seeing a therapist, a coach and is attending an IOP. She is trying but has a long history of relapses. We are considering daily oral mouth swabs at home to provide an additional deterrent to drug use. Has anyone had experience with this? Was testing helpful? If so, can you recommend a test brand that worked well? We know that drugs stay in the urine longer but we do not want to administer urine tests. Thanks, Listening
This is an interesting question. Having the family do drug tests is complicated. The Loved One can feel like the family is policing. I’d rather see a professional administer the drug tests, such as her therapist or the IOP. A positive test would result in a conversation with the professional and the tightening up of treatment. A drug test is a treatment tool fundamentally. It can inform the family, but to what end? Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here:
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-drug-testing-at-home
I’m trying hard not to panic but my 45 year old son who lives in another state is getting extremely paranoid.
I’ve been using CRAFT methods to communicate with him the last month or two and at first it was helping to stay in communication with him.
But the past week he has cut off communication. This is the email he sent me:
” tell you that I’m being targeted, drugged and RAPED…that the same people doing this to me have been stalking me and f*cking with my head for two years…
F**k You…you are not my family! Do not attempt to contact me again”
When I read this I feel so hopeless. I have spoken to the local police and they believe he is delusional and have talked to him. I don’t think letting him go on like this isolated and alone is helpful but yet I don’t know what to do.
Has anyone else had any experience like this? I believe he smokes pot daily and uses meth also.
Even if your son was nearby, you would have trouble understanding whether his paranoia is organic (a result of mental illness) or the result of his drug use.
It was the right thing to do to call the police. The police can do a wellness check. When you see an email like this, it may be time for another wellness check. You are far away from your son. Use the first response system. Don’t be shy. Use it as much as you need. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to SoCal here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-lives-out-of-state-unstable-and-lashing-
Thanks so much for the fast response. I did have a wellness check done and they said he was okay and didn’t seem delusional. But, he still is angry with me and not wanting any contact.
I can accept that as long as he’s okay.
Thanks again for this website and support!
Our daughter recently had paranoid delusions from an amphetamine overdose. It was diagnosed as stimulant psychosis and is apparently even more common among meth users. We were told that the accepted treatment is psychiatric hospitalization with anti psychotic meds such as zyprexa. It usually clears up within 30 days of treatment but not always. And we were advised that the longer it goes on the greater risk of permanent brain damage. So if you can get him hospitalized that would be best. Many rehabs will not take clients suffering from psychosis.
My son is a functioning marijuana addict. Mostly dabs. He could be doing more but since he
Lives on his own, we just don’t know. He is attending school full time and his grades are decent. At least last semester they were.
The holiday season has given him much recreational time to do drugs. Last weekend we had a special sporting event in his town we attended. It was for his brother and my husband specifically told him to come. He showed up but said he looked bad and was tired. He left before we saw him. Fed up, my husband wrote him a text saying that drugs were more important than his family. I don’t know how to feel about that. I just pulled away. But here is the question.
He controls the show. Now he is mad at us and won’t talk to us for weeks. Then he will send us a good
Mark from school. We say how proud we are of him and life resumes to communication. I can’t live like this. He always seems to be in the drivers seat and if we want to know anything about him or what is going on, we have to be in his “ good books.” Pulling away for a brief time doesn’t do anything.
In this particular case this past weekend, his drug use was high. We have pulled away but for how long. Even if I wanted to remain no contact, he wouldn’t even notice because he shuns is.
He is not happy with us having issue with his drug use, he just walks away. He is selfish and self centered and does exactly what he wants when he wants. Even pulling away communication does nothing.
The question is how to react to your son’s marijuana use. You have been trying to step away, one of the 3 pillars of what to do when you see your Loved One using:
remove rewards,
step away,
allow natural consequences;
but your son seems fine when you do so, and he then shuns you. You and your husband feel like your son is controlling the show. Your son does control his show and you control yours. Where is the limit of your control?
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mama here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-shuns-family-need-to-find-a-new-approach
I would like to have a paper book of the learning modules and other written CRAFT things. Is this available?
Thanks.
You read our minds. We are working on a book that puts all of this together….. it will likely take us a couple months though. For now, you can print everything by clicking on the ebook under the title of each new module and each exercise.
Sorry, this will need to be done bit by bit, but we’ve heard you!
My husband drinks every day. He starts as soon as he leaves his job in the afternoon and drinks until I get home and then he sneaks alcohol the rest of the night ( there is a wall of beer cans in his closet and empty/half full beers in every corner of the yard and crevices througout the house. On the weekend the drinking frequently starts in the morning when he “goes out for coffee”. I have tried for the past 4-8 years to get him to not drink and drive, but he continues to sneak. I worry about this all the time. I’m trying to spend time with him/give him positive regard when he is not heavily under the influence and ignoring him/stay in my bedroom when he is under the influence, but it is not making a big impact. He drinks a lot more when I “recognize his drinking” and then remove myself. He lies all the time. I’m struggling with how to handle this all. The ideas in the website do give me hope and I have been trying them for the past three.weeks. I haven’t heard a lot of spouses on the website so I thought I would add my voice
Your husband drinks when he is not working – pretty much around the clock. It starts when he gets home from work and on weekends around “coffee time.” You have been trying to remove yourself from the room when he is drinking, but this urges him on and he drinks more.
I once worked with a spouse in very similar circumstances. Her first “success” with CRAFT was meeting her husband at the door as he came home from work with a small bag filled with sugary snacks and the suggestion of a brisk walk. They came home from the walk and the husband didn’t drink until after dinner that night, a whole 5 hours later. This tactic gave them a whole afternoon together without alcohol and a nice time together that they sorely needed. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to AnneRussell here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-sneaking-beer-round-the-clock
My grandson is 14 and using pot. Our family is very upset and though he is in therapy his use continues. Can you share some insights as to what we should do. He is failing in school and just doesn’t seem to care about anything.
It’s hard to believe, but the majority of people who get in trouble with drugs in life start early, 13-14 years of age. Your grandson is in therapy. Is he engaging with the therapist? I suggest you find out whether he is also struggling with a mood disorder, such as depression. And, if so, whether he may also need specialized treatment for it. Pot has been known to help with depression in little amounts, but can backfire considerably in larger doses.
We provide information specific to teens and substance use on our site in the Resource Supplement. A very useful approach for teenagers who are using marijuana is Adolescent Community Reinforcement Approach or ACRA (this is the parent approach of CRAFT, it represents the CRA in our CRAFT). Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to ejackson here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-young-teen-and-pot-use
I think I heard a wish and I’m wondering if I handled it okay. My 17-1/2 year old son does not have his drivers license. He missed the drivers ed course in school during his sophomore year when all his friends took it because he was in treatment. By last May, the end of his junior year, he managed to get his learner’s permit, but we were gone all summer and he didn’t make any effort to learn how to drive. He was drinking a lot and spent most of his free time with friends during that year. He planned to get his driver’s license by the end of this month, but as his drug use increased since school started, we explained we weren’t going to support him getting his license until he quit using. This is a boundary we’ve drawn because of the liability involved and it’s something we can control. He claims his pot use and driving are not related, thinks we’re unreasonable, and claims we flip flop on everything all the time which is really frustrating for him. Granted, we pulled him from the basketball tournament and our past parenting approach used grounding as a way to control his use, mostly from his phone, to which he would wait out the grounding and then resume his same behaviors. Confront, argue, repeat.Thanks to this site and CRAFT, I’ve realized I’ve been trying to control the wrong thing – him, so it’s easier to maintain a boundary I can control.
We got through Christmas and I thanked my son for spending Christmas eve and day with us and told him how much we loved spending time with him. I told him I missed having him around. He seemed to hear this. I’ve noticed he hasn’t spent time with his new “friend” for over a week (he spent every evening with him for over a month). I’m not sure what happened, and not sure if this will be a permanent thing, but I’m glad he’s been out of the picture. I haven’t asked my son about it, opting to not focus on his friends. Is this appropriate?
As for the wish, I was driving him to band practice and he asked about getting his driver’s license. I responded by saying how much I would love for him to get it, but that we have our conditions. He asked me what I wanted him to do and I told him to stop using pot. He continued with his same argument, adding he’s the only one in his class that doesn’t drive, blaming any strife in our relationship on us being overly anxious about his pot use, we just don’t want him to get it and he doesn’t use as much as we think he does. I responded by saying that it seems he rather smoke pot than drive. I said pot doesn’t seem to be serving him well and he challenged me to tell him how it was affecting him negatively. Ughh – I took the bait. I pointed out that it seems like he procrastinates to the point that his life is stalling (grades, not submitting his college application yet, leaving his drums at school for an entire week, the relationship with those he loves). Then, as he was rebutting everything, I remembered to use reflective listening and stopped. I managed to reflect back some of what he was saying (most of which was targeted at us) then, we arrived at our destination. Although I remained calm, he was angry, but he didn’t rage. Now, his attitude is we don’t do anything for him, so why should he do anything for us (such as any of his chores around the house). He literally walked away from his dad who asked for his help with something simple. It seems he’s not invested in being part of our family. This evening, he left without telling us where he was going. I’m concerned he is going to reconnect with the “friend” out of spite for us. He just doesn’t seem interested in being part of this family, let alone show a semblance of respect towards us or our family/home rules.
Am I in the ballpark of using CRAFT effectively? I know I won’t get it right every time and I need to be patient. I’ve learned so much from this site and CRAFT, but in the moment I’m not always clear on what to say. He checks off all the boxes in regards to SUD with marijuana. I recall in the modules you explain to keep things brief and not lay out everything, but since I didn’t do that, how do I proceed when I veer off CRAFT?
You heard a “Wish” from your son: he told you he would like his driver’s license. When a Loved One voices a wish, it’s an opportune time to discuss treatment (see Learning Module 8). You heard him and were aware of his expression of this wish. What a nice change in your engagement with his communications. You ended up disagreeing with him about the negative effects of pot on your son and this caused the conversation to go a little sideways. Okay. No big deal. There are always plenty of opportunities to do more CRAFT.
Don’t worry too much about getting it perfectly every time. Speaking to your son in this new way is a huge change. It means you are slowing yourself down and listening better to what he is saying. You used reflective listening instead of plowing over him and repeating old scripts. Very cool. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Hopefulin2018 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-wish-or-dip-moving-the-conversation-forward
My 18 year old son, (senior at boarding school) has been struggling with a mood disorder and overuse of marijuana. He smokes nearly every day and sees it as helping not hurting him. Last week, he tried to OD with a bottle of klonopin and was in an acute care facility at Westborough Behavioral Health for 5 days. He is now in their partial hospitalization program but it is not addressing his issues, he has nothing in common with the other teens in the group, and is getting nothing out of the therapy there. We were not impressed with any of the staff at the facility – inpatient or outpatient. We are looking to move him but are having a very difficult time finding the appropriate place – partial hospitalization that serves adolescent or young adults with dual -diagnosis. We do not want him in inpatient rehab with adults that have addiction problems to harder drugs. Our feeling is that is not the right milieu for him.
If anyone could please advise an appropriate place with high quality care, we would much appreciate it. (We are in Middlesex County, MA / Concord).
My daughter has been in in-patient care (heroin/alcohol) (2 programs, 30 days each), and several IOP programs, Last IOP program she was asked to leave after drug testing positive 2 times in 3 weeks. She is again asking to attend a rehab program which is great, but I’m struggling with which one to try this time. She has been on long term disability (which is now exhausted) and she is back working 20 hours a week and seems to be able to maintain her work schedule. Fortunately she is a consultant and can work from home, is on travel restriction right now. She is the only one in her family with any income and to possibly keep her home, she would like to be able to find a program where she can still work her 20 hours a week. In inpatient she can not work, in IOP she can since the programs are part time. I am looking into PHP programs. She does have some mental health issues (anxiety/depression/compulsion) that she is dealing with as well. She is in a Suboxone treatment program and also goes to that clinic and has a psychologist that she sees weekly.
Since she is still struggling with occasional relapse, we both know in-patient would be best. Are there sober living houses where she could still work part time?
Any advise direction appreciated
Your daughter is working hard. That’s terrific. Sober houses often expect that you will work, so that may still be an option. Here is the link to a list of houses with contacts in Massachusetts: https://mashsoberhousing.org/certified-residences/
Also, there is a national organization that promotes quality standards for recovery residences (or sober homes). The National Alliance of Recovery Residences, NARR is the leading organization promoting best practices in recovery residences, including the Social Model. To find out more, go to http://www.narronline.org. Finding a sober home that submits itself voluntarily to 3rd party oversight and national standards can be one way to decide if you are choosing the best resources for your family (this came from one of our members some time back) Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-loved-one-needs-to-balance-work-and-rehab
My 29 year old son is an alcoholic and has an extensive record for alcohol-related offenses. He and his girlfriend, who also drank, lived with me for 2 years until August 2018. I was a nervous wreck from all the drinking behind closed doors and arguments between them. I sold my house and moved 1000 miles away. Simultaneously, he lost his job of 8 years and was arrested for hitting his girlfriend. They, of course, broke up and he has no job, income or place to stay. He has opted for trial which is scheduled for end of January. I am a single parent and the only family he has. I am very uneasy about him living on the streets, so I try to help him but only pay for things directly, not give him money. He is severely depressed and needs treatment. At least he has a place to stay right now till his next court date Jan. 9, but his life seems unmanageable. How do I keep this from bringing me down. I have had high anxiety for 10 years now. Thanks for your wonderful site.
Your son is in bad shape and this is causing you great strain. You took a huge step and moved away, in part because of him, the drinking, and the fights with the girlfriend. Annie made a few very good suggestions. I also would like you to go through My Learning Center and each Learning Module in its entirety. Don’t skip Learning Module 2 on safety. Learning Module 7 talks about some of the especially difficult emotions we experience, and can help you in working through the anxiety you speak of.
Going through the whole program will show you a way to address your son and his needs. It is a pathway that will settle you some, providing a proven way forward. It shines a light on what you can do, while suggesting ways to let go of things that may not be working. Having this kind of a guide helps. Your son is going to need help figuring out treatment for addiction. When you’re able to, can you research options for his location and start a list for him? You would hold onto that list until the moment is right to bring it up… See Learning Module 8 on getting your Loved One into treatment. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-high-anxiety-son-lost-job-and-home-awaits-trial
Hi, So my son has been drinking for a long time now. He is 27 and was living at home but I had to ask him to leave for repeatedly coming home after drinking which I cannot allow and also for stealing at home. This has happened a few times now and the last time we went away for the weekend he broke in, stayed here and stole and pawned the TV for the second time. I also have a 12 year old son at home who is being affected by this behavior now and is worried about it. I have to protect him from this and cannot have it around him. We have seen our son a few times since this happened and I try to keep communication open but am not sure how to use CRAFT with this situation because I don’t feel like I can have him stay here at all (except to come visit, eat sometimes or see his little brother which he has) due to the stealing. I would like to have a conversation with him with a counsellor present so that we can really hear each other and he has agreed to do this. Mostly for the purpose of communicating and moving forward.
Your son feels it is okay to break into your house when you are away, use everything, and steal and pawn whatever he can. Other families have written in about Loved Ones breaking in. Here is a response that lays out legal options that can protect you and your home. It is possible to put one of these options in place and still meet with someone who can help facilitate a discussion between the two of you.
You will need to be the judge of how your son will receive this. It would be a natural consequence for your son – “I am putting a no trespassing order in place so that you think twice before breaking in again.” It would also protect your home and things. It’s a clear signal to your son that he is not entitled to take advantage of his family. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-son-breaking-in
A well-respected addictions counselor in my city emphasizes the importance of accessing treatment for underlying trauma in conjunction with (or immediately following) a residential program for substance use. Specifically, he suggests Tension & Trauma Release Exercises (or TRE®).
I have located some TRE practitioners in my area, but before I start calling, I want to know if any of you have loved ones who benefited from the intervention. I’m also looking into yoga classes that are designed to address trauma. Basically exploring anything that helps people move trauma through their bodies. I’m pretty well-versed in trauma-informed practices (as it relates to my work) but lacking knowledge of trauma-responsive practices/interventions that complement addiction treatment/recovery. Learning curve.
Anyway, please let me know if you or your loved one has experience with TRE and/or similar interventions.
Thank you!
TRE (Tension & Trauma Release Exercises), the innovation of David Berceli, is one of a number of interventions developed to address trauma in the body. I have met and done a training with Dr. Berceli and find him and his approach useful. I did a second – longer – training where I used it myself and then passed it on to a few clients, but I didn’t have any magic bullet outcomes. Some swear by it, and I think when it comes to trauma there is a broad range of approaches that work. Read Dr. Fitzgerald’s full reply to Fireweed3 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-considerations-for-trauma-treatments
Our son seems to be getting more defiant and it’s pushing me to think about putting him in treatment. He’s refused to see his therapist and claims he wants to solve his problems on his own. He doesn’t see his drug use as one of his problems. He’s 17-1/2 years old and I’m feeling like I need to make a last ditch effort to put him in treatment. What are your thoughts about this? I don’t see him improving. His use is increasing and for the past two weeks he’s been hanging out with a new “friend” and comes home blatantly stoned after being with this “friend”. I’m concerned his use will escalate into other drugs, such as LSD, which he’s used in the past, and maybe even others.
Our son uses pot every day, but he has moments of non-use which we try our best to recognize and reward. He’s not very receptive to rewards. He shrugs off kind comments or gestures and doesn’t accepts invitations to take him to lunch or other simple offerings.
In the past month alone, we’ve found pot 3 times in our home and when we’ve spoken to him about it, he blows up at us, calls us names, swears, and badgers us to give it back to him. Although we’ve slipped up here and there, we are doing our best to apply the CRAFT method (we’re fairly new to it) by using positive communication and biting our tongue as much as possible. Regardless, he accuses us of trying to control his life and that if we’d just relax about his use, we’d have a better relationship. His grades are failing in school, he won’t even attempt to get to school if he oversleeps, he uses during the day when he is at school, he’ll come home blatantly stoned after being out with friends in the evening, and his life consists of “hanging out with friends” or staying in his room all day until he leaves with his friends. He agreed to go to basketball practice, which is scheduled twice a week, if we supported him going to an out of state basketball tournament, but now he’s starting to blow off going to practice. Last night he was supposed to go to practice after we picked him up from his band practice (he would have been a bit late, but would have made most of the practice), he refused to go it, cursed and called my husband names for trying to control his life, then left on foot. My husband was distraught, but I suggested he come home and give our son space. As I predicted, his new friend picked him up and they went to his home. I knew this because I can track his phone. We didn’t expect him to come home until quite late, if at all, but to his credit he came home only 1/2 hour past curfew. I said I was glad he was home and that we’re going to need to talk in the near future about some serious changes, then I said good night. He was flippant. As I’m writing this, he’s still asleep when he should be in school. We’re thinking of pulling him out of the basketball tournament, even though I so want him to experience the positive aspects of it.
I’m researching treatments options, but I’m not sure how to approach this when he’s adamant about not event seeing his therapist. Should we consider IOP first or enroll him in a treatment program. I’m interested in a wilderness therapy because it’s something we haven’t tried yet. I feel like I’m under the gun because of his age. He’s thrived in treatment before, but for some reason he keeps falling back into this lifestyle.
Last summer, we even set him out of the country to attend a 3 week church camp, then we joined him and spent the remaining summer out of the country (we were able to stay with family). This experience was incredible for him and for us and we felt we had our son back. I was hopeful that when we returned, he would finally pull it together, but things seem increasingly out of control for him since coming back. We’re perplexed and frustrated.
You’re thinking your son needs to be in treatment NOW. He is 17.5 yrs old and this feels like it may be your last chance.
You’ve been using CRAFT for a couple of weeks now. It has settled you a little, but your son is still using pot and seems just as angry towards you. This may be partly due to a new “friend” your son has made with whom he is getting high. It’s as though this new friend is urging him on towards the dark side.
We recommend families give CRAFT 8 to 12 weeks before assessing its worth. Your son may get more irritated and angry before things start to improve. 12 weeks must sound like an eternity to you.
At 17 years old, your son isn’t ready to quit and doesn’t see the downside of his use. For him to even consider treatment, you would probably need to drop him in the middle of nowhere with no transport out. Locked treatment is mostly limited to inpatient psychiatric units and civil commitments. Even these often have a door through which you can leave. From what you have described, your son isn’t in imminent danger of harming himself or others, a criterion for civil commitment. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Hopefulin2018 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-angrily-brushes-off-our-attempts
I want to give a shout out to the power of this site and the fantastic suggestions and responses from Dr. Simon-Levine and others.
It’s only been about 2 weeks since I joined this site, and I started interacting with it about a week ago through journaling, posing a question, or leaving a comment. It dawned on me yesterday that I haven’t broken down in tears in one week and I think it’s because I found permission through this site to take care of myself. The sense of support, not only through the stories of others, but also from the great responses, suggestions, and words of encouragement have been critical in helping me center my thinking. I know the road is long and the roller coaster of emotions isn’t going away (the past two days I was feeling quite angry at my son for his use), but I can tell I’m thinking differently. Knowing I have somewhere to turn for support and guidance is making a huge difference, and I will remain hopeful that CRAFT and my ever improving ability to apply it will help my son find his way back to us and all that his life has to offer. Thank you AIR!
Dear Hopefulin2018,
As Annie pointed out earlier, the username you chose for your Allies in Recovery account is so à propos, and inspiring. And it feels as though you are embodying that hope more and more each day!
Thank you so very much for the shout-out, we are thrilled you found us and thrilled that what you’re finding within the AiR community is helping you evolve, and suffer less! Not breaking down in tears for a week sounds lovely. Here’s hoping that this trend continues, despite the roller coaster of emotions you speak of.
Best,
Isabel
You made our day! Thank you.
Hi my son (25 years) has a substance abuse problem – alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. He has been in 3 rehab clinics – two in the past year. He managed to remain clean for 3 months and then, due to work pressures (he says) relapsed and used 1gm cocaine. It has now been 2 weeks since he used.
He is on bipolar meds, anti-anxiety meds and ADD meds. He believes that life has dealt him a bad hand. His father died when he was 12 years old and that is when the substance abuse started. I feel he sees himself as a victim rather than a survivor. He has had 3 attempts to end is life (fortunately all unsuccessful). He has now again started talking about ending his life.
My questions are: how do you get him out of victim thinking and get him motivated to do something constructive with his life. He only worked for 4 months this year. The rest of the time he was either in rehab or staying at home.
Are there any inspirational films that he can watch to help get out of his rut and way of thinking?
I look forward to your suggestions.
Your son is struggling with both mental illness and substance abuse. He is depressed, talking of suicide, and only occasionally working or leaving the house.
Feeling like a victim and pointing to something in the past that somehow caused his current state of mind, is very common. For me, and for others I have known, self-pity was the dominant “emotion” we can recall experiencing. 12-13 years of age is when many, many people start using chemicals.
I am not making light of what is happening to your son. I just want to point out the mindset that is extremely common.
I am concerned for your son. The current setup, being home and not working, is not holding him. He is talking about suicide and has made attempts in the past.
It may be important to read some of the posts about asking him to leave the house for something structured…a halfway house, a room in a sober house???? And more treatment?
The situation you are in sounds blocked and exhausting for you. You can’t possibly keep a constant eye on him nor should you.
As for movies. I will let others on this site suggest any if they know of them. All the films I know of are painful to watch as they start with the person in full blown addiction typically. I would recommend one book for now (there are others like this. We are making a list).
Dry by Augusten Burroughs.
https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Memoir-Augusten-Burroughs-ebook/dp/B00BY5QYA0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543841981&sr=8-1&keywords=dry+augusten+burroughs
Dear Dominique, thank you for your reply. Yes you are absolutely right – he perceives himself as a victim.
Thank you for your comments, insight and suggestions. I will keep an eye on the site for book and film recommendations.
Thanks again, kind regards
Annet
I have been a member for several months and find the podcasts and article in this site extremely helpful. They have also shown me that I was enabling my 31 year old daughter and her husband for the past two years.
They are both heroine addicts and my daughter is also an alcoholic. Her husband was also a cocaine user. Her husband was not using when they were dating and were married and did not devulge this to her. My husband, I and our family had doubts about her marrying him due to his lack of ambition or holding down a job but we embraced her decision since he seemed to be a “nice” man and treated her well.
They purchased a home after their first year of marriage and everything seemed to be going well. Then her husbands father died and everything fell apart. Her husband was so dispondent he started taking percocet on the weekends to “relax” and soon she was doing the same. During this time they isolated themselves and we hardly saw them. We were unaware of what was going on. After several months of that, they started snorting heroine and that progressed to injecting heroine. Things spiraled out of control, he was unemployed for 2 years and then when he finally got a job, he totaled two cars and a rental car that we got for him getting to get to work (in 4 weeks). He was arrested for possession of cocaine and spent time in jail (twice). My daughter fell at work and also got in a car accident at work (she travels for her job), since she worked in the same company as me, I covered for her a lot and also did most of her work (I was an executive at the company). She was hospitalized several times and was put on medical leave. During this time my husband I supported them financially, and emotionally and I was at their beck and call when they needed anything, they would call and I would run. I even drove her husband back and forth to work (2 hours each way) when he was without a car and lost his license.
My daughter agreed to in patient rehab and I paid for 1 month of treatment, she was in two stints of outpaitient rehab and one short inpatient (2 weeks), the day she got out she was picked up by the police for intoxication and held overnight. She told us she thought her husband was part of the problem and was talking divorce, she even went 4 weeks without wearing her wedding ring and was staying with us temporarily. The day I picked her up from jail, she cried that she wanted to go back home, her husband had started calling her daily. Her husband was on probation and was on a medically supervised Suboxone program as well as my daughter but she continued to use on an off and when she wasn’t using heroine she replaced it with alcohol. Finally, over the past two months, they both seem to be clean and sober for an extended period of time and are going to IOP programs and AA meetings. My son in law is forced to do this as part of his probation. My son in law’s mother has moved in with them and updates me if I ask. My daughter has returned to work part time. Her husband is still jobless but is following the program the court has dictated.
My daughter has decided that she no longer wants to visit us or keep us up to date on her progress. She does not answer txts or phone messages and has no contact. She did however call me last week to ask for her credit card back from work since she would be traveling again. (I doubt this but told her to come get it). She told me she loved me and missed us but was not doing well emotionally and needed a “break”. Her mother in law and husband are not giving me details on what is going on except to say things are “OK”.
My husband and I are heartbroken we no longer have frequent contact with her. I am trying to detach and let her reach out to me when she feels she can but not knowing how she is really doing is hard! I have sent a card and txts just to let her know we are there for her if she needs us and that we love her but have stopped doing that over the past month and have decided to just wait it out until she is ready (if she every is) to connect again with us. Is that the right thing to do?
Your daughter and son-in-law are still married yet are no longer using opioids. That is your hunch, anyway. His mother moved in with them but no longer provides you with the updates you depended upon about the couple. In fact, your daughter, her husband and his mother have essentially cut you off. You spent years helping the couple out, as they sank deeper and deeper into trouble with the drugs and probably also alcohol. You now realize that helping them wasn’t helpful.
They are both taking suboxone. This is very important because it means someone is following them clinically, testing them for drugs, and hopefully providing them with therapy. This should provide you both with some peace of mind. Your daughter is back at work. Your son-in-law is following the conditions of his probation. All good.
We don’t know why your daughter needs a break. It is very hard on you to not see her regularly and to not be told how she is doing. It is difficult to know which is harder on families: to have your Loved One under your nose or out of sight. Neither is easy.
In reading your account, I felt like you both came through a very long and bad period. The suboxone, the testing, the probation, the IOP, and the AA are all good signs….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Worried Mom here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-helping-wasnt-helpful-now-im-practicing-detachi
I’m new to AIR and so grateful I found this site. I’ve read the book, Beyond Addiction, which introduced me to the CRAFT method, and which eventually led me to this site. I love that the modules are explicit and that I can return to them time and again. However, I still find myself confused for how to apply CRAFT in certain situations, particularly when it comes to rewards, natural consequences, and punishment.
Our son first started using pot at age 13 and has been in treatment twice, partly for social anxiety and depression as well as for substance abuse. He’s used pot, alcohol, over the counter drugs, prescription drugs, LSD and whatever he vapes. Now, at age 17 he continues to use pot and alcohol regularly. He even skips class to use and this past October was caught with pot at school. He was suspended for 3 days and we are still waiting to hear from the courts. A few days after being caught he informed us he doesn’t plan on stopping the pot use because he doesn’t see the harm in it. He clearly does’t see how it’s negatively impacting his life and his relationships with us and his non-using friends. He doesn’t want to resume seeing his therapist he’s seen for the last three and half years.
My husband and I don’t have a problem allowing external natural consequences to happen. Because of his use, his grades are poor, he struggles to get to school on time, and he will have to face the court when that time comes. He recently missed a shift at work and will have to deal with that. Now that we’ve become familiar with CRAFT, we seem to be struggling with what natural consequences look like at home when he uses. We agree, punishment doesn’t work. We used to ground our son or take his cell phone away, but we realized he would wait out his time and go back to his same behaviors.
He doesn’t drive yet and we’ve told him we won’t support him getting his driver’s license until he commits to being sober. Through this site I’m coming to understand that sobriety is a process and it won’t happen over night. Now I’m wondering if we should use driving as a reward rather than wait to see if he will stop using. It’s something we can easily and quickly give when he’s not using and take away when he is using. But what about helping him complete tasks that are important for his future? For example, our son wants to go to college, but he still hasn’t completed his college application. I’ve gently reminded him and offered my help if he’d like it. He keeps putting it off. His responses are “maybe” or “I’ll do it later”, but later never comes. Do I keep my mouth shut or do I keep reminding him?
This weekend he came home drunk and was over an hour late for curfew. This has happened several times this school year. Luckily I had already watched the module on how to respond when he uses. I told him I was glad he was home, but I didn’t want to talk while he was drunk and that we would talk about it the next day. We never really talked about it because I’m not sure how to talk about it. I’m afraid of pushing his thinking in the wrong direction, which I fear I’ve done in the past. I remember one argument we recently had, prior to discovering CRAFT, when my son said all we do is talk about his use and that he was sick of it. That really struck a nerve in me. He was right. Our relationship has been reduced to me questioning why and if he uses, him lying and denying, and me trying to call him out on it. It seems like we didn’t talk about anything else. At times I feel that he really resents me. I’m not sure how to proceed now that I know about the CRAFT method. I feel that by not addressing his use, especially when he comes home under the influence, is sending him the message that it doesn’t matter. How do I use CRAFT in these instances? How do we address his use? What would that sound like? Could you please suggest some phrasing I could use? Do we address it each time or sporadically?
The stress and strain of worrying about his use leaves me mentally exhausted and depressed to the point that my thinking gets stuck and feels blank, if that even makes sense. I’m not sure what and how to say things without making it worse. I’m confused and feel paralyzed. The concrete examples of what and how to say things are so helpful.
Changing your behavior and your communication to line up with your Loved One’s day-to-day use/non-use is a lot. CRAFT boils down to a simple set of principles you can apply to all situations in dealing with your son. Applying these principles can be difficult however, and you won’t do it perfectly every time.
The world, and indeed, each moment-in-time can be divided between:
When you see use: step in and reward
When you don’t see use: step away, allow (safe) natural consequences and remove rewards
BTW: When your ability to think goes away, because of exhaustion, frustration, mind-blowing irritation, or anger, it’s a strong warning you need refueling and calming down. There’s even evidence that these strong emotions affect your physiology and your ability to think rationally or empathetically. So, you first. Whatever you are doing, do a little more. Our Sanctuary is designed to provide a few minutes of solace. If reading helps, take a look at Parenting Teens with Love and Logic: Preparing Adolescents for Responsible Adulthood. Intersperse this book with poems by Mary Oliver or other writers/poets who provide inspiration and gulps of air.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Hopefulin2018 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-natural-consequences-or-punishment
I am in despair. Our 39 year old daughter is an alcoholic. She lives in her own home with her boyfriend but has no job (fired again for calling in too much) and deep in debt. Credit card unpaid, checking overdrawn, cashed in 401k and selling things. She lives with her boyfriend of 11 years who has given up on her. He wants to sell the house but she will let it go into foreclosure instead. She will not see us or answer her phone. She doesn’t want to change and has no interest in seeking treatment. We have only limited texting and email where she says she is sorry for the stress this is causing us and that she loves us. Yes she is depressed and was diagnosed in elementary school but she stopped taking her Wellbutrin. She also stopped Naltrexone that she was on for less than a month before stopping.
So that is her story. I come here today because I know I am in trouble. I obsess about this, thinking all day that she is killing herself. I have no power and she clearly states it’s all up to her but she doesn’t want to do anything.
So many people understand what I am saying. How can a mother give up? How do we put this out of our minds? She is going to die by her own choice and I can’t live with that. I feel broken and though I try to do other things, I have little focus on them and keep going back to bad thoughts. What if in the end I didn’t do or say something that could make a difference. I feel like I have to accept she is dying and that is too heartbreaking.
I am listening to Podcast #55 “Don’t Tell Me to Detach” It is helpful. Other podcasts on “detaching” are listed as well. I am not alone. I know that.
i have been researching treatment facilities for my son doc-meth for weeks now. It is overwhelming and confusing. I thought I had found one that fit what we were looking for -long term, not 12 step based but more EBT based using DBT, motivation interviewing, one on one therapy etc. When I called the number I got a young man who was all too happy to check into insurance benefits etc. Days later I was getting calls from all kinds of shady sounding rehab places all over the country. It is really really hard to know who to trust. We do have private insurance. I have been going through their site state by state-I think it would be best for my son to be away from his home area. What I really want is some real reviews from people who have real experience with these facilities-you can not rely on the online reviews-many are written by people employed by those facilities. I have searched so many websites-and none including the government ones can give a consumer reports type of review. I did try ASAM who I guess is in the process of developing something like this. So much at stake-rehabs can help or hurt at a very crucial time-not to mention the cost. We are willing to take a second mortgage if that is what it takes to get my son the help he needs. He was adopted from social services-has a genetic history of addiction and early trauma. Now 20 years old he is in Votec school by the skin of his teeth-still going usually late to class-not sure how his grades are this is his first semester. I am seeing the drug take more and more time from his life-he is physically skin and bones. I want to be ready when he finally is agreeable to help.
Your instincts are very good. You need to be ready with treatment the minute your son shows any interest. He is 20. You can’t force him into treatment. CRAFT provides the best combination of behavior and communication you can practice to motivate him towards treatment.
You understand that especially with methamphetamine, the treatment/sober living situation needs to be long-term, one year+. There is no evidence-based treatment for meth. The literature suggests it takes a very long time for a meth user to recover physically and emotionally. You may need to cobble together several programs that keep him in treatment for as long as possible: inpatient —> residential —> ¾ housing….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mommaoftwo here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-getting-lost-searching-for-treatment
My addicted 37 year old daughter is incarcerated, in our county jail, her hearing isn’t until Feb.11, 2018, it is considered federal charges. Her bond was reduced to 5000.00 and is asking that we bail her out. She was taken in because of a recent outstanding warrants, picked up in New York where she had been left by a man she barely knew, no phone, money or ID. We live in Iowa, where I had filed a missing person report and they found her there. Two weeks later she was extradited back (her saying it was a horrendous trip back) She has been in jail a total of 38 days as of now. She has nowhere to go except our home. My heart wants to bring her home and give her love and support. Our relationship has been estranged and difficult for the most part during her active use. She has never been in recovery, until now in jail. Our mental health and rehab programs here are poor to say the least. She is scared and desperate to reconnect with her children (son 17, daughter 13) her siblings and extended family. Her DOC is meth…which has been a 3-year roller coaster from hell. My gut tells me this would be inviting a train straight through our home, even though she has made progress in writing and apologizing to her loved ones, talking about counselling and going to meetings. My husband and son are against it. My other daughter knows the concerns making this choice, thinks maybe it is time to step in and show her love and compassion. My husband and I both are still working, we live in a rural area, and feel this will make her feel isolated and lead to relapsing. We do not have a car for her to use, not sure that would be an option anyway. She has been in and out of our home over the past 3 years, only staying a few days at a time. She has never stolen from us before, but her charges are burglary and theft, which breaks my heart and is dishonest behavior. I know that she is innocent until proven guilty, but this present trust issues. I would love your input, I just don’t know how Craft can help us work through this crisis.
I am sorry for your family. Your daughter is in a bad way. She’s in jail in NY awaiting a hearing that isn’t slated for another 4 months. You are very worried and are considering bailing her out.
She would come home to your house in Iowa.
Methamphetamine is a highly addictive and devastating drug. Your daughter has been struggling with it for over 3 years. It is a difficult drug to treat.
I was able to talk to a senior ranking nurse in New York State who is in charge of over a dozen jails throughout NY. I don’t personally know the state of NY very well and sought her out…..Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Hope101 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-across-the-country-and-wants-us-to-bail-her-o
My 24-year-old daughter struggles with Bulimia and alcohol, both of which she denies. I realize that shame makes it hard to admit either issue to your own parents so we have both, separately and gently, discussed our love for her and our desire to help her, but she continues to deny that she needs help. I even got a little desperate and started emailing her info and leaving helpful information lying around the house (which only ended up in the garbage). Finally she sent an email that said, “STOP.” I did. Maybe she feels that her issues are not so bad that she can’t handle them – like a smoker who says, “I can quit any time, but not now because I enjoy smoking.” Or that the alternative is worse (getting fat or anxiety in public). Or maybe it is just the shame of admitting she has these problems. Her older brother is a Radiologist and her younger brother is also studying to become a doctor. That could be a lot of pressure on a middle child.
Kim no longer lives at home. On the outside, everything looks great – she has a full time job, a stable boyfriend and shares a nice apartment on a golf course with a childhood girlfriend. But her addictions still haunt her and I have much less influence now that she has moved out. In a way, it is also a relief. Her addictions and the stress they cause me are not in my face everyday and I can actually pretend all is well. That’s the way my husband wants to live. But I have been praying and waiting for an opportunity to help her. And I think the opportunity has arrived, but I need advice.
Kim wants to purchase a house. Her life-long dream has been to remodel homes (she may have grown up on too much HGTV). The market here in San Antonio is very strong, but she has no credit to get a loan. Therefore, we could go in with her and put the down payment on the house. We would all be on the mortgage, but she would be responsible for the payments (which would also help build her credit). And yes, she IS financially responsible. She graduated college and holds a job with medical insurance. We have no doubts that she would be able to manage the payments.
My question is, can I tell her that for us to help her with the house, she would need to get counseling. And to verify that she is sticking to counseling, she needs give permission for the doctor(s) and/or therapist(s) to discuss her situation with us (add us to the HIPAA form). My hope is that getting her life-long dream of a house is enough incentive to confront her addictions. Or am I, once again, being too optimistic and pushy. (We absolutely will not help her purchase a house without confirmation that she is working on recovery)
Kim has already walked away from multiple car accidents, of which three vehicles were completely totaled. Luckily, she has never gotten a DUI (probably because she never looks drunk – and the flask of vodka in her purse is very discrete). I fear that either she, or the driver of the other vehicle, will not walk away from the next one.
Please advise.
Welcome to the site. Your daughter is drinking alcohol in ways that don’t seem to affect her job or friends. She has, however, totaled three cars and you worry about the next time this happens. She is also bulimic.
Bulimia and drinking is a growing problem in young women. Combined, the two can accelerate the harm caused by purging.
You are asking whether helping her purchase a home might be sufficiently rewarding that she would agree to treatment.
Before addressing the purchase of a home, I wonder if you have provided her also with treatment options for eating disorders? She could be more willing to address the bulimia than the drinking to start.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to peepsandklucks here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-secretly-struggles-with-bulimia-alcohol
I’m brand new here and desperate for help. Divorced mom raising 2 sons with addictions. One is currently sober thanks to drug court (he’s 17), and the other (18) is facing felony charges for possession of Xanax. A few years ago he was a different person. Now he is defiant, is abusive, lies, has destroyed my mine and others’ property numerous times. He is completely disrespectful, says I’m a bad parent (not true), and is ‘nice’ only when he is being manipulative. He has taken things from my room without my permission and things are missing that I suspect he stole to support his addiction. He’s gone to the police with outlandish and false accusations against me (to pay me back for calling them when he began to destroy property in my home yet again). The strain of taking care of all of his needs by myself while continuing to face lies, manipulation, volatility, and abuse has become unbearable. He has a disability (severe speech impediment) and he has crippling anxiety/depression. These traits make it particularly difficult to find the proper course of action He has alienated everyone he knows, has no support except for me, and is wholly unprepared to live on his own. I find myself periodically responding in kind to his abusive remarksand although I mostly refrain from that, I’m getting increasingly unable to do so and I feel very guilty. I have no help; my fiancé, my son’s dad, and even his psychiatrist (before my son was uninvited to be a patient) all just say to either kick him out or just to ignore him when he is being abusive (emotionally and through property destruction, etc). He has been arrested for drugs and also domestic violence for wielding a baseball bat at his Dad, and has been committed twice to the behavioral health unit for credible threats of suicide. All this over the last few months. He denies his addiction and says he will smoke (a lot) of pot whenever he wants (which seems to be multiple times per day. He blames me for many of his troubles and when he says I’m a terrible parent it cuts me to the core because I’ve spent 19 years devoted to my kids. Last night things escalated again after yet another day of my doing everything to help him and then him saying I ‘dont really do much for him.’ (WRONG) I am all alone in this and cannot go on another day. My mental and physical health have seriously declined and my work performance is suffering. I spend all of my free time at home, fearful as to what will happen next. The anxiety is literally shaking me to my core.
Welcome to this site. You have two sons, both struggling, one of whom is active in his drug use and abusive, verbally and physically. Annie wrote you about the strain and the despair when a Loved One is so verbally abusive. Your world does sound dark. We have another mom who’s posts you can follow with two active sons and a husband who struggles with alcohol: (see profile for mlb2t). It’s hard to imagine how difficult things are for you.
I am going to suggest you reach out to a domestic violence group in your area to start. Before attempting any changes with your son, as described on this site, your son has been physically dangerous and could be so again. Learning Module 2 is about safety. Please look at it BUT also please get some help from experts in violence. Do not yet attempt to implement what we suggest on this site….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mom here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-the-abuse-has-become-unbearable
I replied to Dominique’s full response on the blog, here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-the-abuse-has-become-unbearable
Will keep you apprised of progress!
I am new to this site and still working through the modules. The CRAFT method makes a lot of sense to me.
I have a question about support for our daughter. She is 22, uses IV meth, alcohol and sometimes other drugs. Meth has been a problem for the past year; alcohol for a couple years. The good news is that she hates using meth. I think she is more ambivalent about alcohol, but recognizes that it often leads to really bad decisions like drugs or drunk driving.
She has lived at home, sporadically working for the past couple years. 2-3 months ago she tried a 30-day residential rehab and checked herself out after 2 weeks. Immediately relapsed into a bad meth binge. Then she found an IOP coupled to a high structure house that drove her to IOP, 12-step meetings every day and supervised money. She completed the program and was thrilled! Then she went to a less structured sober living house where there were rules to be employed and to go to 4 12 step meetings per week and 2 house meetings. I told her she could keep her wages and save for the future; I would pay rent in sober living. She lasted 2 weeks, and then relapsed, first with alcohol and then with IV drugs (not sure what drugs, could be meth or heroin). After a warning, they kicked her out after she continued to use. She also lost the job she’d had for a couple weeks. She said, “there were too many rules, too many meetings, and not enough privacy”.
She’s trying to figure out how to do recovery on her own. I’ve tried to keep communication short and positive. I’ve told her that I will support her in recovery but she cannot live at home (I can’t take living with addiction anymore). Right now she is staying with a boyfriend (a good guy, but she can’t stay there long-term). When she asked, I sent her a list of sober houses. After looking them over online, she said is not interested in them (she says too many rules, and she needs more privacy than a roomate). I’m not sure where she will live, and am worried about that, but also see this as her choice. She would like me to pay for a short-term apartment “while she figures things out” and I have just replied that sounded isolating. I lost the months rent on the last sober living (and the first rehab) when she checked out early, and an apartment or random roomates seems like a recipe for disaster.
My question is about the car that we have loaned her. There is a tracker on the car (she knows this) so I saw the sober living infractions unfold during the past week. One, which I did not handle well, happened when she was at her heroin addict friends house, where she always uses (I sent nagging texts instead of ignoring it). She used the car to get there. I also see that she is parked for periods of time in convenience store parking lots where she is probably drinking (these I have ignored). On the other hand she also could the car to go to her therapist (she goes weekly, something she started at the IOP program) and to the 12-step meetings (she has indicated that she is interested in going again but has not since she was kicked out of the sober house).
TLDR: First, should we continue to provide car to daughter who is using it to procure drugs and alcohol in hopes of supporting her going to her drug counselor and attending 12-step or SMART meetings? She also uses it to see her BF and a sober friend. The counselor is amenable to keeping track of meetings and maybe even drug testing (this does not pick up alcohol).
Second does our approach to housing sound appropriate? And finally, how do I engage with her when I can’t tell if she is using or not (I can’t tell when she is drinking because I don’t see her often and we largely text).
You’ve hit on two of the big items families wrestle with: housing and a car. CRAFT talks about rewarding non-use. Rewards need to be easy to give and to take away; housing and a car are not easy rewards. We’ve written about both (see: home as a reward and car).
As you so well describe, housing and a car can so easily become enabling, when the Loved One uses.
I am encouraged to hear your daughter is attending therapy and occasionally peer support meetings, hence my use the of the word “ambiguous” at the top of this post. She is willing to address the addiction at times and was thrilled to complete a program….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mizkitty here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-uses-the-car-for-therapy-and-to-score-drugs
My 21 year old son has several mental health issues and has decided that pot helps. He says that he loves the way it makes him feel. He doesn’t have doubts or insecurities when high. He is gay and has been bullied in the past. He still feels unfairly treated and blames everyone else for his failures. He has been high functioning in the past but pot use zaps all motivation. He wanted to go back to college- he has failed out twice before and we paid for everything. This time we helped him get loans. He now says that he is stressed out with worrying about his grades and paying back the loans. But he still sneaks and gets pot. He has no money and we drive him to and from school but his so-called friends give it to him. I’m so sad that he will not get help. He says that he is done with treatment. Don’t know what to do. I can’t keep babysitting him to keep him sober. He is taking a plethora of medication for ocd and anxiety.
Dr Simon-Levine asked that I give a bit more information about my son. My son has worked for his father(his father fired him for tardiness), as a helper at his university in the Office of Disability (he quit because he didn’t like his boss), as a restaurant worker (he got his pot from the other workers there), and Target ( he just walked out at break and didn’t return). His primary drug of choice is pot but he will drink if pot is not available. He has tried adderall but said that he didn’t like it. I’m not sure what else he may have tried. He is 21 and currently taking 3 classes at a large university. However I don’t think his grades will be much better than before. He has dropped out twice. On the bright side I think that he is going to class more. His first try at any drug was his senior year in high school. This was when he came out as gay and we didn’t realize it at the time but he had extreme social anxiety, ocd, and depression. He was just recently put on Lamictal, vybrid, an anti-anxiety med, and 3 600 mg of NAC for pot cravings. He has been taking his medicine for the past week. He has seemed more like his old self which is loving and more engaging. But then first chance he gets he gets high. I have had him in therapy since high school. He just recently quit going and said that it doesn’t help. He is scheduled for an in depth psychological assessment next Thursday to see where he is mentally and to determine if we have him on the correct meds. I don’t know what else to do. He graduated with honors from high school and now his cognitive abilities seem stunted. I have 2 sisters and a brother with severe mental illnesses. Luckily my sisters have finally found their way but my brother is an alcoholic and homeless. I’m fearful of my son being the same as my brother. Where do I go now? We’ve taken his truck and now his phone away. What will it take to get him to realize that he needs dual diagnosis treatment?
Thank you for your quick response, Dr. Simon-Levine. My concern is psychosis. He has used synthetic marijuana (unbeknownst to him at the time). And we had to take him to the ER. He doesn’t seem to have the ability to do it in moderation. In the past, he would go and sit in his truck for hours and smoke. He will smoke all day if we leave him home by himself and neglects school or anything else. I’m afraid to tell him that I’m okay with using in moderation as he has no understanding of what that is.
Hello Vandy: I am not suggesting you agree to moderation, but that you seek to reduce his use rather than eliminate it. You do this by asking him to respect your home by not using or being high in it. This is where you have some control. You will reward him for coming home not high. You are aiming to reduce his use TO START, to increase the discomfort when he does get high. You are at war with the pot, you can tell him. It is up to him, but you are not going to support it. When he is ready you will help him get into his choice of a number of programs.
The way you describe his use of pot “in the past” it does sound like he may be using less. If he is left to his own devise, he may smoke alone in a truck for hours, he may flunk his classes. You can’t prevent this. Neither of these things are in themselves too dangerous not to allow, neither are they in your control. He needs to feel the effects and the consequences of the pot smoking.
We are suggesting you step away, allow him to make his choices, and feel the consequences. With pot as with any drug, abstinence comes at the end of a lot of trial and error of more minimal efforts at moderation. He needs to see that it is out of control, that it effects his ability in school, that it prevents him from coming home. You can’t police or babysit this situation away. You may feel like you are protecting him but you may inadvertently be extending his use by softening the blows pot could be causing in his life… it’s not an easy choice for a parent.
How do parents cope with a child who consistently lies?
My 19 year old daughter seemingly cannot tell the truth much of the time. Recently I saw “pathological liar” in the search bar on her cell phone when she came over to show me a new album on Apple Music. Days later, she confided to me that as her substance use increased, she started lying more (and more) and now it has become reflexive. I understand, but I can’t really accept it — or rather, I’m having a hard time tolerating it.
I find myself questioning everything she says which is not only detrimental to the relationship but also harmful to my sense of wellbeing. If I start asking questions for clarification (when things are missing, facts don’t line up) she becomes irritable or angry, and things often spiral out from there. I want to break the cycle.
I looked for keyword “lying” under topics on this page. Was surprised not to find it. I need help navigating this issue. Thank you.
We haven’t thought to put lying on the tab bar. It would be like putting drinking along with alcoholism or smoking along with tobacco or pot.
People who have problems with substances lie. They have to, for they are hiding large sections of their life, whether it be the pragmatic parts of sneaking, minimizing, accessing the substance of choice, or the deeper part that evades emotional honesty with themselves.
Your daughter could also have an additional issue that makes her lie compulsively, but it’s going to be hard to tease this apart as her substance use increases. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Fireweed3 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-do-i-deal-with-the-constant-lying
please help! My 32 year old daughter has been in and out of treatment for the past 3 years, although she has had a substance abuse problem for much longer. She was doing very good until she got involved with a boyfriend and things have gone downhill quickly. They broke up and she is now involved with another man who has just left her. She has a job and they had an apt together. She is still drinking not sure how much or how often, but there has been a significant change in her attitude. She is depressed and having mood swings but refusing treatment. I am at my wits end, I want to help her but don’t know how. I was paying for her uber rides to work and helping financially but now I really don’t know what to do. I would appreciate any suggestions, her behavior has really affected me negatively and I am having trouble coping. Thanks!
Your daughter has been in and out of treatment for the past 3 years. The fact that she has been willing in the past to go to treatment tells us she acknowledges a problem and is willing to accept help for it.
She can accept help again. This is what you can push for and support, financially, logistically, and emotionally. Multiple treatment episodes are common with substance problems. Treatment is the best defense we have for addiction. Perhaps she would be more willing to be seen for the depression. The hope is that the treater identifies and quickly refers to additional substance treatment.
As the family member, you’ll want to think strategically. A statement by her about how depressed she is can be seen as a dip (read related posts here; See section in Learning Module 8 on wishes & dips): a moment to talk about treatment….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mother3 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-refuses-to-discuss-treatment
Hi,
My 17 yr old son is getting high (marijuana) daily. My husband and I are new to Allies in Recovery. I’ve kept the school looped in on his behaviors, which escalated this past weekend to staying out all night, largely as a reaction to us blocking the app’s on his phone, and then cutting the cell service altogether.
I heard from the school today that my son chose to meet with a social worker yesterday, but did not attend the substance abuse group meeting today. He is supposed to attend these meetings for 4 weeks as part of earning phone privileges back. Do I accept the meeting with the social worker in place of group?
Also, he sometimes has legitimate after school activities (such as basketball), where he may ask for a ride home. I think it’s safe to assume he is smoking before these activities, so I’m inclined to let him get home himself, but I don’t know if picking him up afterwards might encourage the positive behavior of staying with an organized activity, as well as denying him further opportunities to smoke (on the way home).
Thank you so much for your assistance, and this website.
Boundary setting is a critical part of helping others. If you established a protocol through which your son could “earn” back phone privileges, I would not bend it. Actually, I would advocate that he purchase his own phone plan as a means of learning how to manage money flow effectively. Once we begin to move the boundaries we establish, we undercut their potential effectiveness. People learn that “ultimatums” don’t mean much, and they react accordingly. Meeting with the social worker is a good thing, but he is asking you to accept his orange in lieu of your request for an apple. It sounds to me like he is on YOUR phone plan, which means YOU determine whether he can use it, not he. Raising children is a hugely difficult and important undertaking. How you teach him about responsibility will become the most important gift you will ever be able to offer him.
Welcome to Allies in Recovery. You’ve asked two questions. The first has to do with privileges being cut for staying out all night. He is a daily pot smoker.
Sounds like you restricted his cell phone use in response to his pot use. He responded by staying out all night. But, all of this moved him to go talk to the school social worker. These things are rarely smooth, but the trend is in the right direction. He didn’t go to the substance group that was agreed to.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to thislifesucks here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-we-need-help-rewarding-our-son-who-smokes-pot-dail
My son went into detox/rehab back on May 7 of this year. The path to that day is another story. The first indication of a problem was 8 years earlier and the last indicator of the worst case scenario that he was truly addicted and out of control was about a year before. We took him to a AA and detox yet there was no rehab and we had not done any of the work to find rehabs ahead of time so this was all very clumsy and doomed to fail. His mom and I began going to Al Anon (Me and my mother had been going off and on to Al Anon for 33 years because of my sister’s addiction yet for a son I realized the tools need to be very different since I moved away from home and my sister and this was something closer to home being a parent and all).
A year later then, on May 7, we finally got him into a detox that then transitioned into 30 day rehab. I visited him each weekend in rehab yet he refuses to talk to his mom and oldest sister because they have been very angry at him and pretty much telling him he is going to hell and threatening him. Its another story altogether about all of that. I was acting in ways consistent with CRAFT and MI before I ran into this treatment concept simply by trial and error yet thankfully finding CRAFT has put me way beyond where I was. I have to forgive myself as I learn because I really think I could have spared our son much of the things he will now have to deal with the rest of his life because my approach wasn’t working. Honestly, the rest of the family was making it very hard on me because their learning was more deficient than mine although clearly we all were deficient. In this ordeal I only wanted change, namely recovery, yet didn’t have the plan for treatment ahead of time completely worked out with different mitigations to address things like waiting lists and all. I did write down the address, and put it all over in his backpack and other places, of a rehab that would take him at any hour of any day by planning ahead for that one yet it was 5 hours away and in the end he didn’t like it because of certain details of that particular rehab. My youngest daughter is the one that got a referral to that rehab and I did minimal research beforehand yet I know now I didn’t do nearly enough. Not being sure of various options for immediate transport to detox/rehab clearly will affect both your confidence and ability to step in and help when the moment is right and the LO is having change talk and wishes and dips. That confidence to be the difference at the moment of truth is clearly in my experience going to make or break whether I can deliver the right message at the precise moment it might be received and my LO would then get to treatment. That part, and my deficient preparation (and knowledge of how important it is) I will have to make right with my Higher Power on judgement day. I do speak up at meetings and to others facing children’s addictions to help them not make the same mistakes, nor be deficient in learning the things I wish I had learned when they could have made a great difference. I wouldn’t call it easing my guilt anymore rather I would say I have a conviction to use the things I’ve learned, many the hard way, to help others. My convictions are transformed now into my increased value in society. I hope the same for our son yet I struggle with making my serenity contingent on my son’s seeing his past as a gift of value to society and others. I think it is possible and I pray for it.
OK. So now I realize I pray for the status quo namely continued recovery. It is different than praying for change and getting him into treatment. In some ways it feels worse to me. Its like a cosmic flaw awaiting for an inevitable random innocent traveler to fall prey to at its worst. I am trying out a new method of dealing with my worst case scenario thought by always appending a best case scenario flaw onto it to balance it and keep me centered. Kind of like, “my son is dealing with a compromised past for which he will be judged superficially by others for the rest of his life while struggling with the trauma and actual work of recovery and paying for the damage it created all while having to avoid substances that would immediately (though temporarily) relieve his psychic pain. This is horrible and such a temptation!” balanced by, “my son is enjoying a new found serenity he has never experienced. He can see now the irrelevance of superficial judgments and values around him. He is working through the trauma himself with his own motivation and not the nagging and less than helpful advice and guidance of codependent family members yet with others doing it one day at a time. He is taking responsibility, one day at a time, and earning the means to make peace and restitution for his part in the damage we all have experienced and this inspires me so clearly he is be an inspiration to others. He now has found that merely breathing relieves all pain. Our son now has access to a Higher Power than he has ever known that was/is/will be enough to get him past all and every temptation from now forward. I am so grateful!” I think that if my mind comes up with a CATASTROPHE then it must also come up with a FANTASY to balance it. This is rational to me.
Learning CRAFT skills gives me the confidence because I can be helpful in a small amount of time rather than before where I spent all the time sorting out what was helpful and not. I have been blessed by a great career that has allowed me to take so much time off to find a way to help our son. I think now it might be time to get back to work full time and get focused back on my life. I still think I need to deal with personal trauma this has caused me before I am able to focus on my career and the rest of my life pursuits. I am full of meaning now yet I must get through the lurking trauma. Writing this helps me and yet sometimes my ramblings help me and yet my family isn’t so enthusiastic about it. This is why I think its better to ramble in a place where people might be more ready to identify with it ready to address the same things. If my ramblings arouse any thoughts or helpful experience, wisdom, joy, strength or anything good will you share? Thank you by reading this because I think the burden is spread thinner by all of this sharing.
A very thoughtful comment. It is quite a journey, and sharing the detail of yours will help others. Thank you.
You write that having your son in recovery is almost scarier than when he was active, as you put it: It’s like a cosmic flaw awaiting for an inevitable random innocent traveler to fall prey to at its worst.
CRAFT does help so much. It is not based on anecdotes or what worked for the next person. Rather, it is a set of principles based on behaviorism that has been studied over and over, using a rigorous methodology. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to 228 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-its-like-a-cosmic-flaw-awaiting
Hi 228. Thank you for rambling. I read each and every word. Im 62, divorced, ever so broke, mentally sick of everything. I will keep going due to wonderful people that “ramble”. God wants me to keep the fight and make my life good, I know. Right now friends are rare. Oldest son, wife and my two grandkids are my lifeline. Its like, ok after I get my addict son committed things will turn a corner…I know – wrong!! Both my parents died trying to “fix” my sister, who succumbed to her drug disease. I am and will be stronger. This I know is probably the darkest thing I’ve ever posted. I will survive…
Hi 1delapisa. Light shines brightest on a backdrop of darkness I guess. Maybe through the cracks of my brokenness. Important things might take a fight and there is a time for it yet if everything is important nothing is and I’m exhausted and of no value nor able to be there at the moments of truth when my LO is open to a suggestion of treatment or an affirmation.
I am a dad yet I admire moms that put their lives at stake to give birth to children (in the old days moms died in child birth all too often yet continued to choose to have children and this tells me the courage input into that hasn’t changed only the outcomes) and that inspires me as a dad. To be as courageous as a mom I would have to be willing to die in search of wisdom or finding a way to help them live and representing values that give safe space for my LOs to live within. Safe latitude where they enjoy autonomy, can make mistakes without external shame and blame. Safe space I withdraw my control of where they can explore their ambivalence and choice making muscles yet where I can “drop in a lifeline” WHEN/WHERE they call out for one. A safe space transcended by my love yet devoid of my control yet full of their control where I hope they make a choice and not live by impulse alone.
I stopped putting #1 priority to my LOs as #1 recovery and replaced it with LIFE is #1 and then #2 recovery. I think recovery is taking an option before me–making a choice–yet LIFE is accepting a gift given to me simply to be who I am and live the life I have to live as it is–good and bad. The reason behind changing my priorities is I have seen pain medication save someones life. My father in law’s Blood Pressure was 200 due to pain and I watched as the emergency room gave him strong medicine and it immediately dropped his BP to 120 and they said he would have had a stroke in that pain. This fact caused me to change my #1 from non use to LIFE. Clearly use can save a life. I think this perspective gives my LO support of the ambivalence of use from whence my LO can make an autonomous choice. Who am I to think my LO wasn’t in so much pain that death was imminent was the question that I believe helped me turn an important corner in my path to actually being helpful to my LO that lead to treatment.
Friends are precious precisely because of rarity I think you surmise. I love that CRAFT says its Okay to have a goal of recovery and hope for my LOs even devoid of other people implying that. Yet the focus has to be on the process and not the outcome and I think a life well lived isn’t defined by the outcome since we all fail and die it is defined by the one living it. I use that same logic for my LO when I try to help. I know I am helping when my LO tells me I am helping.
It is music to my ears as was when my LO told me that I have made his recovery a little easier. It told me two important things. #3 it isn’t easy for him #2 I made it a little easier #1 he did the majority of the work and it came from him and so he believes that! I am sure he knows he is in the driver’s seat and feels autonomy, competence, love and hope! This is real power to change to meet the demands of his world!
You can do this 1delapisa and recovery happens all the time and despair isn’t inevitable yet recovery might be probable in the future we can’t predict. We must live despite uncertainty. You can do all the right things and maximize your value in relationship to your LO and be that lifeline and transcendent love that can inspire change yet to endure the “fix” will be a choice of the one that needs “fixed”.
ok, tried to follow MY plan Im learning through AIR. I think about what has happened since Monday and have to stop and realize its only Friday!! The days are so long. Son was gone sat and sun and came back Monday.Decided after reading AIR comments I could be ok with him needing suboxone everyday.Monday he was on suboxone and was quite pleasant. he stayed that way for the day and went to sleep at night time. so normal. All day/night tues, wed, thursday and today Friday are back to sleeping all day, hiding, so he doesnt have to talk to me or anyone.
I’m so tired! All I want is for him to let me talk to him for 10 minutes. Asked son why he does not take suboxone daily? Said he would get really bad being high like that everyday! Think that has more to do with adderall he snorts. I told him about parent that has a rule of giving son suboxone and antidepressant every morning. I can see why that would work. He refuses therapy and antidepressant. How can I get him to understand he must get properly medicated and therapy to get well?
Know this is long, one more thing – he leaves for a trip next week. Bought the plane ticket months ago. I will have my home to myself, I would have time to pack his stuff, change lock and he will have to go. I would work with him if he could at least be open to medication, counseling, getting up, attempting to get a job or to just be awake. His dad is going to take his car that he cosigned on.
One group says kick him out, one says to let him stay. If he would only be open to boundaries. Thank you for any help….Lynn
As you’ll see from reading these posts, providing housing is difficult. The family needs to stay flexible and provide temporary housing, based on the effort their Loved One is making. If you’re high, you are not welcome…if you’re on a regular suboxone program (or other MAT), come on in.
Your son’s diabetes complicates this, since, as his parents you worry about his health, and your son must deal with a debilitating illness and the possible depression that results from it.
If your son is using opioids, then any plan you come up with should start with a medication-assisted treatment. He is in real danger of overdose, especially given the recent rise in fentanyl deaths. A clinic will dose him properly and provide some therapy. It’s a starting point.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to 1delapisa here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-avoiding-me-using-at-night
Hello — I am new to CRAFT and trying to learn as much as I can. It has been a great resource. My 30-year son is now in rehab for a terrible addiction to GHB (club drug) and other substances (not even sure what all else). He had tried unsuccessfully on and off for 6 months to get off the drug himself, set back after set back. He went to a really good place for the first 30 days and he moved on to a second facility for additional treatment.
On his way to the second facility (a l00 mile journey) he had hidden his drug of choice (from when he arrived to enter rehab for the first time) in his things that the facility had taken from him and they did not find it and destroy. (His first 30 days were rough in rehab but he persevered and had begun writing me emails that showed he was improving.) Of course, he used on the way to the new facility. I called there yesterday to check on him because I had a gut sense when he called me enroute that something wasn’t quite right. (I read on this website to trust your gut in these situations.) I received a call from him and his case manager to explain his relapse. He is now in “relapse protocol” at the rehab facility (which seems to include a call to mom). I am, of course, very disappointed in him but am trying to keep the big picture in mind. He wants to get better and has actively sought out his own treatment. I am trying to also care for myself but this was like a gut punch. (He is in treatment across the country so this is all happening over the phone.) When I got on the phone with him and his case manager, I just said I didn’t understand and I don’t. I also don’t think this was the best response and maybe I should have said I can see you are struggling, what else can I do to help? It’s hard to say this when you just want to scream and or even walk away. What suggestions do you have for me?
Dear Jenna3366,
I so relate to your story. My son is 27, he’s now had 6 years recovery. But the beginning years were a terrible struggle. Twice I tried to detox him myself (his drug of choice was percocet and any other narcotic opiate pain medication that he could find). He also tried to do his own recovery and treatment plan. We had a serious learning curve and each failed miserably, over and over. When things went from bad, to worse, to terrifying he moved from Ohio to California to go into treatment (all of this in written in my first book Unhooked). A month in, I suspected a relapse, I knew the signs and behavior. I called and called and CALLED and called the place he was in, until the truth came out. I was more upset than when I initially learned he had the addiction, this relapse felt worse somehow. I get the gutpunch feeling. Truly I do.
I personally came to understand that any deception, secrecy, sneakiness, lying, or manipulation were probably going to occur symptomatically as a result of the addiction disorder my son struggles with and are not personal or intentionally targeting me. The more I understood that – the better able I was to handle how those things affected me. The more I accepted that as part of it, not condoned or allowed, just acknowledged and accepted, thereby responding in healthy ways to it – the more peace I had in the midst of it.
My son finally ended up in a center that was a better fit for him after that and has worked on his recovery ever since. I, however, then hit an emotional rock bottom. I still felt like I was drowning and out of control, as he was stabilizing. I had developed C-PTSD in the aftermath of the chronic stress and had to find mental/emotional recovery for myself.
We go through quite a bit of terror, don’t we? It had made me almost completely insane. Not only have we gone through the gutwrenching nightmare of a child’s addiction, but to have them far away? What an added dynamic that can be to make peace with.
The more I worked on my peace, health and wellness in those days, the better I was able to manage my emotions and my life, as well as the relationship with my son. Over time I wasn’t as easily triggered or pulled into the madness and paranoia of another relapse – that “other shoe dropping” so to speak. But it was a process.
CRAFT tools helped tremendously. I read all the Allies in Recovery blogs, visited the Sanctuary page and watched the modules, taking notes. I did this work when things were okay, when we were not in crisis or hectic. We don’t always want to do this work when things are calm and okay, we want to go on about life. But that’s actually the BEST time! Because we are then better prepared for the uprisings and bad days the next time, if/when they do occur.
Hope any of the above is helpful? If nothing else, I hope knowing that you are not alone is a comfort. Allies is a safe place to come learn, share, and find hope.
It’s a process, wishing you peace in the midst of it all today.
Respectfully,
Annie
Thank you Annie for sharing this with me. The part about not taking it personally really rang true to me. p.s. I also called the first rehab place today to share with them what happened. They are looking into it and seemed generally concerned; and who knows if what my son shared with me was even true? (I believe it is but after thinking about it, I am not as certain…)
I am so glad to hear you are working CRAFT here at AIR. The program has been a godsend for many of us. One thing I found here is the diagram “The Trajectory of Sobriety” which shows the place relapse can have for so many people. It is a reality check for me so I won’t be shocked if/when relapse happens. Hang in there Mom.
Hi gptraveler – Thank you for the tip about the diagram “The Trajectory of Sobriety”. Where do I find this? I clearly need more education on this topic. I also read that relapse for GHB addicts is common and the prognosis appears bleak.All in all, there is not a whole lot of research on this particularly troubling addiction. From the projectghb.org site:
AFTER THE DETOX—ONGOING AGONY
Multiple relapses are common in the majority of GHB
addiction cases. Many describe that GHB leaves a “hole
in your soul.” Establishing a decent sleep pattern is often
a problem. Depression, even at suicidal levels, is nearly
standard. Anxiety attacks are also ongoing. Depression/anxiety
typically decrease with time, taking a few weeks for some and
months or even years for others. Many recovering addicts need
medication at least temporarily to deal with the sleep/depression/
anxiety issues. Those with prior depression seem to have the
most difficulty finding a regime of meds that work well after
GHB use. Accidental overdoses on other drugs, especially
trying to detox without adequate medical supervision, are
common, sometimes resulting in death. These deaths may not
be recognized as related to GHB since there will be no GHB
in their system. Suicides have been noted from 36 hours into
detox to several months later, whether or not there were prior
depression or mental health issues. Many have by now lost
jobs, financial security, family, and other relationships. Many do
not see themselves as “addicts” because of their unintentional
involvement with this drug and shy away from AA/NA
meetings. They need to recognize their status as indeed
“addicted” and need understanding in treatment and meetings to
put aside this alienation. As with any
Dear Jenna3366,
The illustration that shows the Spiral of Recovery / Trajectory of Sobriety can be seen in this blog post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-oh-the-grief-of-witnessing-a-loved-ones-addiction
Best,
Isabel
I really need guidance. Son just finished up 2 weeks of sleeping and is doing it again today and yesterday. He likes to yell at me ‘its not drugs’!! Think he wants to blame it on t1d only. Leave me alone, leave me alone. He has left 3 times in the past 2 weeks to get drugs of some sort. street suboxone (if thats a thing) How can I get the ball rolling to 1.get him into treatment, for the 1st time since he was 16 or 2.leave my home if he cant wake up Should I just call police and have him removed?
Your son has type 1 diabetes and a substance issue. I am not trained to address the diabetes, except to say that lifestyle habits are important to its management. The diabetes adds to the importance of getting the substance problems in check.
Your son may be using drugs during the night, you aren’t sure, and is then sleeping away the day. I believe Allies in Recovery can help. There are many small changes you can make that can shape your son’s habits. Take a deep breath, and when you let it out, go to the eLearning Modules and start watching from the beginning. Ask your husband to do the same…..Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to 1delapisa here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-not-really-living-how-can-he-get-unstuck
Hi 1delapisa,
I understand that you are in a place where you are feeling urgency about getting help for your son, and moving him towards treatment.
Dominique Simon-Levine wrote a blog post addressing your specific concerns just 2 days ago, you can read it again here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-not-really-living-how-can-he-get-unstuck
As for street-bought suboxone, Yes— this is a thing. In addition to our Signs & Symptoms page int he Resource Supplement (https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-signs-symptoms-of-drug-use) you could look at this webpage that addresses Suboxone abuse signs: https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/suboxone-addiction/side-effects/#gref — Remember, becoming more aware of your Loved One’s substance habits, signs and symptoms is a key step in the program. It will allow you to judge better if, in this moment, you should reward (non-use) or step away (use).
My suggestion at this point is to recenter your attention on you—
1) do what you need to do each day to find some inner peace (look to the Sanctuary for ideas if needed)
2) follow Dominique’s suggestions and keep going through the modules one by one (don’t forget to fill out your Key Observations exercises)
3) perhaps add in a little focus to your daily communications with your son. If he is acting defensive (“It’s not the drugs!” and “Leave me alone, leave me alone”) then perhaps you need to shift your communications a bit. This takes time and can’t be learned in a day…but can be practiced each day and is likely to bring really satisfying results. As a reminder, the communications module is Learning Module 4: https://alliesinrecovery.net/learning?m=4&s=1
We agree with you—getting your Loved One into treatment is the best way to help him with his addiction issues. Our program is designed JUST for this: once you have really worked the program (8 weeks-ish) you will be in a better position to bring up treatment. Until then, hunker down and dive into the program; lean on us for support; and understand that this is a process. Yes, there is (hard) work to do on your end, but many parents who have worked this program successfully will tell you it’s a journey you will never regret.
Best,
Isabel
Thank you Isabel. I am jumping around modules but now going to 3, finished the first two. He’s been sleeping this whole day again…
Looking for guidance and resource recommendation for our son. He is a recovering opiod addict and finished a suboxone maintenance program in December 2018. He seems to be holding his own there, although I have had a concern a couple times since December. The issue is he has been prescribed Xanax for 10 years and a year ago there was an attempt to switch to Valium as it was longer acting. That attempt because of various reasons resulted in him being on Xanax and Valium for a year now.
We switched to a functional doctor as traditional doctors seemed to be making the problem bigger. A rapid detox, we learned, from interfacing with a benzodiazepine expert could result in death especially at the dose he has been prescribed and a taper is recommended. The functional doctor will work with us on a taper, but before tapering off Xanax and Valium ran a series of tests that showed his nutrient levels were very depleted, especially his amino acids. He was not strong enough to even endure a taper. The doctors words a year ago were — I have had people come to me with bad levels but none as bad across the board as yours. We worked with him to get his levels up and things were good in February except he still had chronic fatigue and pain. The doctor ran more tests and he tested positive for Lyme. That started an antibiotic regimen that destroyed his gut health. He will be starting IV therapy (Vitamin C and GSH) in 5 days as he still is quite fatigued and doctor thought he would be further along by now.
My concern. He is self medicating at times with his Xanax and Valium (because of sleep issues), leaving him in dire straights the last few days before his refills are due. The functional doctor is not aware of this. With Lyme he is not strong enough yet to withstand any detox or taper. Yet he cannot continue as he is.
I don’t know if there is a facility that would work with him on a taper while being sensitive to his reduced energy because of Lyme. Or really what should we do? Ultimately, I believe, and I think he does too, that he needs a structured regimen, but we are not sure the timing is right yet. Yet, his self medicating is a recipe for disaster too.
Also, his chronic fatigue has put him in a position to be completely dependent on us. He is 29 and has no job, no money, no car, no career(he did have one once). He still lives at home. This has him extremely depressed. He wants to be self sufficient. He spends much of his time alone with his thoughts. My ‘vision’ (and his) had been he would feel better from Lyme and then move forward on the taper and independence. The Lyme recovery is taking much longer and his mental state is deteriorating. His words just tonight, I have lost the tenacity to live.
I don’t know how best to proceed at this point. Any help or recommendations is appreciated.
Beach 18:
Genesis Counseling Services in Framingham offer outpatient group and individual substance abuse counseling. Lisa Robideau is the director. She is knowledgeable and compassionate and a good resource. They will work with you on payment if necessary. Good luck.
Dear Beach18: Your son has been through so much. Being abstinent from opioids is no small feat! I am not trained to address the Lyme’s disease, but the fatigue you describe would be very hard on someone who is relatively newly sober. The combination of: alone, fatigued, isolated, with occasional insomnia and withdrawals from benzodiazepines, sounds like a bad one. Depression makes sense.
You are focusing on the benzodiazepines and with good reason. Along with alcohol, benzos are the only other class of drug that, in withdrawals, cause life-threatening seizures. Detox programs take benzodiazepine addiction seriously. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Beach18 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-clean-from-opiates-but-really-struggling
AIR has been a lifeline for me. It has enabled me to deal effectively
with my son who has struggled with alcoholism for over 10 years. Three
months ago, he left a house I own that he had been living in alone, he
went to detox, finished a rehab program and is currently in a Sober
House. I have refused to allow him to return to the house and he is
seeking an apartment. He has a job in a restaurant.
Financially, I must sell the house. I have been paying all the expenses
and do not want to continue. Living there has isolated him and allowed
him to slip into past patterns of alcohol abuse.
He is extremely angry with me. I’m okay with that. As long as he
maintains sobriety, that’s enough. I continue to offer emotional and
financial incentives for sobriety (for example, I pay to board his large
dog on a long term basis) I check in and offer support for good
decisions.
However, I, too am now becoming angry and it’s difficult to remember
his thinking is not yet clear as he shows zero gratitude for anything I
do. I want to lash out pointing out the damage he has caused,
relationships damaged, etc although I know that is not productive. So
what can I do instead?
Thank you for any advice you can offer.
I’m glad Allies is a lifeline. You have made some major changes that have effectively shepherded your son towards early recovery. He is in a sober home, working, and sober. Very hopeful.
But you’re angry at his lack of gratitude for everything you have done and want to let him have it.
When a Loved One is in the throes of active addiction, family members feel the need to focus almost entirely on the Loved One and their situation. When I meet with a family, I like to start with the question, How are you doing? How quickly the answer turns to an account of how their Loved One is doing. I understand why, of course…. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to readr here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-doesnt-show-an-ounce-of-gratitude
My 32 year old son, who lives with me and is the youngest of my 4 sons, has been a heroin/cocaine/fentanyl addict and alcoholic for 17 years…..he had clean time while incarcerated or attending AA meetings and at those times he is a kind, wonderful man. Currently he attends a methadone clinic, taking 70 mg per day and has done well on and off. His older brothers are all on their own now, but because of my youngest sons addiction, currently do not have a relationship with him or me…..that is profoundly sad to me.
This past weekend was the worst……within a 12 hour time span, he was arrested for trespassing and had fallen into a 6 foot drainage hole…..luckily someone called an ambulance and he was transported to the hospital…..he walked out of the ER and called me for a ride home at 4am. He had no idea what happened or where his car was…….he told me that he had taken 12 mg of klonopin the day before. He had multiple scraps and lacerations, including scraping his head so badly, he was missing 4 inches of hair on his scalp. I found his car blocking a driveway with the keys in the ignition and the Windows rolled down.
My son has a great job and his boss told him to take off a few days and recuperate after the accident …….these last few nights, he’s been staying out all night or coming home at 1230am. When I request that he should have an early night and that he needs to sleep in order to heal, he becomes beligerant and starts throwing stuff in the house……and can’t get up early for the group session at the methadone clinic……and the cycle starts over again. When he misses his group or methadone dosing session, he looks to me to pay for methadone that he buys from clients with take home doses. I am broke and have had to use my credit card for purchasing basic necessities……I work in the public school system and make a very good salary, but my son has bled me dry, again.
Over the years, I have had to have the police remove him from my home…….which always ends badly for him…..crashing his car, stealing, getting into legal trouble, etc. I’m at my breaking point, again and would like suggestions. I have been a devote follower for several years on the Allies in Recovery website and have gained so much knowledge and wisdom from reading the modules and the community blogs….but I’m at a crossroad this morning of either helping my son or taking care of myself…..I can no longer do both. I sent him a text early this morning explaining that I felt like he was, once again at the brink of disaster…..but no response.
I greatly appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on how to proceed
Mom of 4 sons
Dear Pherlihy
Looks like you have been doing this for a long time and it has taken a toll on you. I am sorry for your struggles. I feel like you might be doing more of the work to keep your son sober than he is. At the age of 32 he should be living on his own. Have you thought about asking him to move out? Someone that is actively using can be very dangerous to be around and also a danger to himself. I also don’t think that a few days off work will be enough to solve his addiction issues. At this point he really needs to seek residential treatment that also has a step down sober living option. I truly believe the sooner he is out of your house the more he will take ownership of his sobriety. For me having strong boundaries are very important. I do think you can still support your son but you need to take care of yourself as well.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom…..it makes so much sense what you say…..especially about your ability to maintain strong boundaries. I had time yesterday to sit quietly and reflect about maintaining my boundaries with my son and not attempting to repair all the damage he has created for himself……I feel much stronger and committed today to put myself and financial security first…..even though it will lead to my son becoming angry with me……I’m thankful that I will return back to work at school next Monday and not remain so focused on my son’s sobriety. You are so right….I am doing more of the work to keep my son sober than he is…..I have stepped back…..and he already noticed last night.
Dear Pherlihy: Your account is filled with such agony. It’s as though both you and your son are continually battered and bruised, and understandably so: 17 years—half your son’s life—have been spent responding to your his addictions. It has caused tension and misunderstanding between you and your other sons.
Let’s start with where you are this morning. You texted your son that he is at the brink of disaster.
My first thought is for you to send your son a second text: … Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Pherlihy here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-its-either-i-help-him-or-i-help-myself
My adult daughter is addicted to alcohol. She has a long history of mental illness including depression, anxiety, ADD, possibly bipolar. Her growing years seemed to be hard on her as she never felt good enough and compared herself to everyone else, making herself look bad. I think those were the seeds for developing the addiction. Add to that the fact that I have a lot of alcoholism in my family and even quit drinking myself 40 years ago because I saw the road ahead of me and didn’t want that.
Now my daughter has lost her job as an RN, she is losing friends unless they drink too much also, she is constantly running into problems with her boyfriend of 11 years. He happens to be an enabler and not much in the way of CRAFT support. They own a home together and now she can’t pay her share so the house may get sold. Forget about the fact that we planned and paid for them to join our family on a cruise 2 weeks from now (That won’t happen with her in this state so tons of money wasted. We’ll cruise without them.)
Common enough problems in the life of an addicted person.
My husband and I use the CRAFT approach as much as possible but then things haven’t been horrible. She drinks too much but stays home so when she gets nasty, angry and abusive the world doesn’t see. Last night the police called my niece to come and get her because she was drunk and disorderly out in public including while her boyfriend was trying to drive. They must have found the niece’s number in her phone.
Our daughter claims she had been sober for over a week with a few other successful stretches over the past 6 weeks or so but she’s has had the worst time getting into treatment. Her recovery coach never calls. They have met once in 2 weeks. There is no program in place, just promises the coach will look into an intensive outpatient program and some counseling. In the meantime my daughter is struggling. She could do more on her own but the depression locks her in her house all day, despite my encouragement through texts and emails.
I don’t think we can even call this a relapse if she has never been through a program.
I know our problems can seem small in the larger scheme of things in the world of addiction but it is ours and we are struggling to keep ourselves together.
Dear gptraveler, your daughter suffers from depression as well as alcohol addiction. The depression “locks her away in the house,” where she drinks. This makes reaching her difficult. The problems are escalating, in the sense that she recently had a run-in with the police, and her partner of 11 years, with whom she shares a home, may be getting fed up. He has been of little help in terms of CRAFT. Your daughter has a recovery coach who hasn’t been much help with the additional treatment your daughter needs, and that she actually perhaps wants at times.
First off, your daughter’s problems are real and serious, whether it is opiates, pot, or alcohol. Addiction is addiction. The drug of choice to some degree dictates the danger and consequences, but the cycle of addiction is the same. Remember in Learning Module 1, where we provide the graph of the non-linear advance towards sobriety over time?
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-oh-the-grief-of-witnessing-a-loved-ones-addiction
Hello again air team, things have gone from bad to worse with my son, and I was hoping I could once again ask for your insight. His disease reared its ugly head in a big way, and I did not respond well to it, engaging in the chaos. He didn’t come home for four days, and we had virtually no contact with him. He drained his bank account and drove from family member to family member asking for money. We were all so scared for him. When we finally caught up with him I really let him have it, forgetting everything that craft teaches. I threatened to section him. He’s home now (I probably shouldn’t have brought him back) and he will barely speak to me. We asked him to park the truck again until we can figure things out. I know that I blew it in many ways. Desperate to do the next right thing, but I just don’t know what that is. He’s been home for three days and won’t talk to me about treatment. So grateful for this website and for your insights. Is. 54:10
Your intuition was right. Your son’s relapse has taken hold. He stayed away for days, went begging to other family members for money after draining his own checking account, and has now been brought home to your house. Everyone is now in their proverbial corner, along with a threat of a civil sectioning.
Several days have gone by since you wrote so things may have changed. But it matters little, the strategy we laid out in response to your last post more or less holds.
His stay at your house is dependent on him not being high. If he is high, he stays away. (Can you do this? It means not knowing for days what is going on with him.) ….Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Is.54:10 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-engaged-in-the-chaos-now-what
I wonder if there is a continuum of thoughts and feelings surrounding our loved ones SUD that are similar to feelings around death? I have felt so much grief during this cycle of use and recovery. It might help us to look at our feelings more objectively. Shock, pain, anger, depression, working through, hope. We can see ourselves going through stages, back and forth. Maybe you would consider a podcast.
Your analogy comparing the cycle of grief around a Loved One’s relapse to the grief when somebody dies is a good one. Relapse for the family has its stages. Having the insight to (even sometimes, even imperfectly …) expect the shock, pain, anger, depression, and then hope, might help you step back from these very strong feelings. Maybe they still come on like a bomb, but you are more quickly able to realize the emotion that just exploded in front of you, and can talk yourself away from the blistering heat more quickly. Perhaps it looks like this:
“She just relapsed. My chest is going to break open I am so infuriated. Fury, aha, okay, why? Yes, she relapsed. It makes sense to be angry. She told me she was going to a program. Instead she relapsed. She lied, she is always lying. She takes me for a fool. But this is part of the process: relapse, brief stop, relapse, slightly longer stop, brief relapse, etc. Deep breath. I have to get to that yoga class. I better call my therapist. Deep breath. I’ve learned relapse is part of the process. How do I know that she takes me for a fool. That is me projecting. She is never going to get sober. Me again, the ever and never’s, the all-negative thinking. She probably never even thought about me. Time to de-personalize. Okay, I feel a little better. She is bound to relapse, maybe again before it really stops.” ….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full post addressing gptraveler’s concerns here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-oh-the-grief-of-witnessing-a-loved-ones-addiction
Dear Allies: I am the mother of a 35 year old man who has struggled with heroin addiction for over 10 years. He doesn’t live at my home, works a restaurant job, and mostly pays his own way, although in the past, periodically I have given him money. Now, I only give him checks on his birthday and Christmas. He says he is taking Suboxone, but he says he gets this from a friend and isn’t going through medical channels, Medicaid, etc. He has been in a state-run detox and 21 day program about 4 years ago.
He is saying he wants to put a plan into place to change his life and get off drugs, but when I talk to him, he doesn’t get too specific. He says the program he was in in the past didn’t fail, that he failed. I have attended Al-Anon for the past 4 years, but now am beginning therapy due to fear and anxiety and wanting to help, but wanting to help the right way. So, I am thankful for Allies!!
My questions are around the fact that I don’t know whether he is using or not using (he probably is using Suboxone), so the idea of rewarding non-use and withdrawing rewards for use is hard to apply. I know the importance of timing (it has to be his timing) and his motivation, but the longer he waits, the more fearful I become. How can I apply the principles of Allies when I don’t know clearly about use and non-use? I now know some of the symptoms of heroin use, but I only see him 1 or 2 times a month at the most. We go out to lunch and then he loves to go to a bookstore, where I buy him books. He is a voracious reader and I spend some money doing this. I could stop buying books, but that could be seen as punishment, and I’ve tried to just keep a connection and a channel for communication that is positive and rewarding (e.g., lunch and books). What can I do? I guess it’s always possible that I just have to keep waiting. Should I stop seeing him until he makes a decision to go into treatment? (That doesn’t seem quite right.) Should I offer to help him with a game plan that has rewards after certain steps are completed – like a flow chart or something? Thanks for your support!
Your instincts vis a vis your son who is a long-time user of opiates are good. You have kept up your connection with him. He is sharing his fears, and his hope to make a plan and get off the drugs. When you see him, you keep it light and do things he likes.
The worry of rewarding use is real, and you are just not sure whether he is high or not when you see him. We wrote a piece about rewarding someone when street-bought suboxone is on board. It is hard to tell the difference when someone is high from opiates, if they are long-time users and are just maintaining—they just appear normal. Suboxone can look the same: they just appear normal. Because you see your son so rarely you won’t know the patterns that would help inform your guess as to whether he is high or not.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to danareilly here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-cant-tell-when-hes-high-on-suboxone
Dear AIR Team, My adult son has SUD. He has been abusing opiates for many years. He now lives at home, with the understanding that he must stay in some sort of treatment program and not be actively using. 6 months ago he had a relapse. At that time, he willingly gave up his keys and took his car off the road (this was his idea, he said he didn’t trust himself to drive). For months we drove him to work, appointments with his counselor, and to the suboxone clinic, as he is on a MAT plan. Per our request, he reached out to a recovery coach as well.
He seemed to be doing quite well, and we were so hopeful that he had turned a corner. During this time he saved up enough money to purchase and insure a nice, used truck for work. We felt that he was ready to start driving again. I guess we were wrong, because he has used again, at least three times in a three week period. He stayed out all night on two different occasions. My husband is fed up and thinks its time to ask him to leave, but I’m not so sure. My son is going back to counseling tomorrow, and says he is willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. He says he doesn’t want to go backwards and doesn’t want to let us down. Are we being manipulated? Are we enabling him by letting him stay? I’m not sure that he is willing to do the hard work necessary for long term recovery, although he says he is. I want to believe that he is sincere and truly desires something better. Any advice? We are so confused and discouraged, we could use a fresh perspective.
Is. 54:10
Dear Is.54:10
Your son is living at home and has relapsed. You and your husband are divided on whether to ask him to leave.
Thank you for writing in. This is a core issue for families, one that we have written about several times before (see topic on blog sidebar = home as a reward).
Your son used opiates several times after months of being abstinent. He says he will do everything to succeed but you have your doubts. What you may be feeling is his ambiguity: I want to use, I did use, but I don’t want to use, I want to succeed. Ambiguity resides in all of us when faced with change. It is part of the change process. If, as family members, we wait around for a 100% commitment from our Loved One, we will almost certainly be waiting a long time. Family members must make decisions and take actions in an environment of probabilities.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Is.54:10 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-is-relapsing-right-now-should-he-leave-home
Thank you for reaching out. I have watched Module 7. The Modules are helpful but your examples really don’t fit really life. My daughter called last night from the RE where she had ODed. She was dead on arrival and they brought her back. She was trying to leave against doctors orders. I was up most of the night trying to encourage her to get help. My daughter spent all of last summer in ICU with acute respiratory failure and almost died several time. 10 weeks in the hospital and it was sheer hell. She was doing good until her birthday July 2 when she turned 21…she relapsed and she has entered and left two rehabs this month alone.
I will watch module 7 again and see if it can help. I did do the breathing exercise which help me a great deal. shelley
Dear Shelleybobelly,
Boy do I understand how you feel. There are times when the flames seem to rise up from every direction and burn so hot that nothing seems to calm life back down. My situation sometimes felt impossible to me. I, too, have had times with my son (and sometimes my mother, invasive in the middle of us) where no advice seemed to fit the MANY out-of-control situations going on — all at once! The cliché “When it rains, it pours” could not have been said enough. Those storms can feel extremely difficult and terrifying to navigate. I am so sorry your daughter is struggling, but what a Mom she has—one who is willing to put in the time and work to be a comfort and guide—not everyone has that.
Read Annie Highwater’s response to Shelleybobelly here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-it-rains-it-pours
My daughter is in treatment right now. She even managed to find this facility on her own. I was wondering if there is a list of rehabs on this site that is recommended. I know not all are created equally but it would be helpful. This is my daughter’s 8th rehab and it is exhausting looking for new ones.
So good to hear your daughter is in treatment. We purposely do not recommend rehabs but provide you with the tools to look for them in the Resource Supplement. There are others on the site with experience that might help you, please do share the information through the private message function on the site. Thank you.
Well last night my son Michael used and he was so bad… He was disoriented that I had a stranger call me on my cell when I was out to say they dropped him off at my house and wanted to make sure he was ok. The minute I got home I knew he was high He was outside covered in dirt came in the house and tried to pick up my 87 pound dog , knocked the tile off my counter and it BROKE He was talking and didn’t make sense. All night he was on a tear. The dog actually slept upstairs with me and my boyfriend cause he was so scared of Mike. The next day he told me he lost his cell phone and fifty dollars playing soccer I asked him where and he doesn’t know. I told him rehab or section to pick one. He swears up and down he wasn’t high Are you kidding me.. We got into it physically he punched me in kidney and arm . He said he would go to his friend in East Boston. I told him not to come home He made holes in my walls and he also stole 100 dollars from me last week. I told him u til he realizes he is a drug addict and needs help not to co e home I dropped him off at station and he said he was coming back tomorrow. I told him I would have him arrested. It breaks my heart that my son isn’t mine anymore but I’ve done all I can I love him so much but have nowhere else to turn it has to be on him now. I took all his clothes out of draws u hooked his Xbox I’m done . He has no key and I have to lock all Windows so he doesn’t get I He said horrible things to me and so did I. I hit him also cause I can’t help the things he says about my brother who has MS and my dead mother. Why doesn’t he see he needs help and why does he think I don’t know when he’s high? Y CANT HE admit it?
Your son came home high and acting strangely. He scared you. The next day you told him he had been high and gave him the choice of being civilly committed or going to rehab. You ended up in a physical fight in which both of you hit each other.
As family members we can become immune to the odd, desperate, and even dangerous, things our Loved Ones do while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to jezabelle here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-my-son-is-all-over-the-place-got-violent-with-me
I’m very new here so bear with me. Looking at Learn2Cope meetings. It specifically mentions “loved one addicted to opiates or other drugs.” Am I right in thinking alcohol abuse is included under other drugs? I don’t want to go to the wrong meeting. Thanks in advance.
Hi gptraveler,
I was a Learn 2 Cope facilitator in the past, yes you can attend meetings with someone that uses alcohol. All are welcome there!
I have a married son with three years old daughter, they all live in Houston, Tx., and we the parents live in Norfolk, VA. My son had a car accident about 10 days ago and got fired from his job because he did not show up to work. I know for sure he has drinking and drug problems. Now the relationship with his wife is deteriorating gradually due to his unstable temper and behavior. I am sure the only help for him is a rehab, I need some guidance and help in how to get him to a rehab. He has no money, no job, and he is very depressed.
Thanks you so much
Your son’s family life is in danger: he crashed the car, and lost his job. And all this is happening clear across the country from where you are.
We have written before about the use of CRAFT when you are far away from your Loved One. The approach was not designed for long-distance intervention… but the principles of CRAFT still apply…. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to rlabib here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-crashed-the-car-his-marriage-is-in-trouble
My son is a recovering addict, detoxed at home with our support and went through a 3 yr suboxone maintenance program and finished that begin January of this year. He seems to be holding his own for now, but I feel the missing piece in his recovery, is still a good therapist and my concern is he could relapse if he does not receive the mental health help he needs.
He has been to therapy, but it seems they had little experience with recovering addicts/addicts. He has depression, anxiety and a poor self image. On top of that he has been diagnosed recently with chronic Lyme, which leaves him with very low energy/stamina. So it is difficult to even begin to rebuild his life, which contributes to added depression.
Is it possible to get recommendations for therapists in the Greater Milford, MA area from possibly someone with personal experience?
Beach 18, you are looking for therapists in the Greater Milford, MA area in order to enhance your son’s recovery support. I will send out broadcast to the community including your question. In the meantime, here are the resources from our member site that you can consult:
You can use the Psychology Today search engine that we feature on the Resource Supplement (click on this link and then scroll down): https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-online-treatment-resource-locators) to search for a therapist in a particular area.
For instance, in Milford MA there are therapists practicing CBT (https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-managing-difficult-emotions-cbt)
To help you consider the type of therapy you might pursue, here is our page from the Resource Supplement on evidence-based approaches: https://alliesinrecovery.net/resource_supplement-evidence-based-approaches
Thanks Isabel!
Beach18, I highly recommend Lauren Slater (https://www.laurenslater.co/) in Fitchburg, MA. She’s been my daughter’s therapist for over a year and has been the first therapist to make a noticeable difference with my daughter’s depression, anxiety, and PTSD after getting clean. Coincidentally, I have chronic Lyme, and although she is not my therapist, I know that she understands chronic illness. Best wishes to you and your son.
Thanks so much for your recommendation, yomac99! We’re so glad your daughter has connected with someone who is helping her significantly.
I am happy you got a recommendation. As a new member, I an encouraged that the community is working.
Thanks yomac99! So happy to hear of the positive progress with your daughter. And knowing a therapist that understands chronic illness would be a big plus. I appreciate your input.
Dear Beach18- I think you are so smart to seek a therapist with experience in addiction and recovery…It makes a huge difference. I’d simply like to reinforce Isabel Cooney’s advice to check out the therapists listed on the Psychology Today website…My daughter’s therapist is in Connecticut (who is listed there and who specializes in treating patients in recovery, had also suggested the site to me). The bottom line, of course, will depend on the chemistry between him and the therapist, so you might suggest that he check a few out before settling on one. The good news that you report, however, is that he’s doing well…I believe that most of the people in recovery are struggling with the kind of mental health issues you describe and working with a therapist (and maybe a good psychiatrist who can prescribe appropriate meds for the anxiety/depression, as well) will give him the support he needs. That’s what my daughter has been doing and she’s been ‘clean’ for 15 months and actually just accepted a job in the admissions department at the rehab where she’d been a resident last year. Good luck to him (and you, of course!).
Thanks Millicent! I appreciate your input.
Hi Beach18,
My son also struggled with the mental health piece and dual diagnosis. We found it really difficult to treat both. We had to do some hunting around but there are really great resources on this website especially for Mass.
On another note, we found that the mental health issues made it more likely that our son would relapse when he was going through something difficult. Have you created a relapse plan? There is a lot of information on Allies in Recovery that can help you be prepared. I looked up ‘relapse’ in the list of topics (sidebar on right) and found some great ideas that I hadn’t thought about before.
I am not saying relapse will happen in your case but being prepared can really ease some of the chaos if it does.
Just sharing thoughts in hopes it might help others.
Thanks On-a-mission! I will definitely follow up with your suggestions.
Hi, I am looking for information on a Section 35. I did find how it is done. I need to know how likely I am to get one so I can weigh the risks of going down that path.
I have a sister, 53yo, who cannot stop drinking once she starts. When she drinks it is always to passing out with BAC routinely over .40. We brothers and sisters would commit her in a moment, as she no longer has the functioning to make good decisions. She is end-stage in her alcoholism.
Her husband is her biggest enabler. A top-level manager, he manages her. I saw him this past weekend and inquired about my sister. He explained the past 72 hours had been good. This is after 20 years of her active drinking and routinely being unable to function when she does – he still sees this as something he will manage. Can we get the Section without him? Will we have to supply documentation of her many hospitalizations and detoxes or will the Judge listen to us?
We will all go to Court, and recognize this may alienate our sister and brother-in-law, but do not know what else would potentially be helpful. She won’t last much longer.
You want to civilly commit (“Section”) your sister without the help of her husband. Sectioning someone can indeed create friction within the family, in this case between you, your Loved One and her husband. There is no way around it.
For information and the experience of others, see the tab along the right side of this posting “Section 35”. … Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to diezil here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-take-the-risk-of-sectioning-her
How do I know if my 21 year old son who is addicted to Kratom needs an intensive outpatient recovery program? We have a home living agreement with him that necessitates NA meetings three times a week and recovery counseling once a week, but I’m concerned that we’re trying to manage him detoxing off an opiod in-home. I’m reading that this is dangerous and he should be assessed and perhaps have medicine-assisted treatment? I believe he’s using caffeine and nicotine to help with his symptoms.
Kratom is such a new drug in this country and I understand that it’s 13X more potent that morphine.
He’s working 30-40 hours a week, having to commute 1 1/2 hours by bus, doing odd jobs for neighbors, and really trying…. but I wonder if we’re setting him up for failure…. just too much expectation for him to manage his symptoms by himself?
We are not expert in Kratom withdrawals. From what I read on the internet, symptoms of withdrawal last 4-5 days. Since there can be big differences in how sensitive an individual is to an opiate withdrawal, you may want to add another week or so for your son. If Kratom withdrawals are like other opiates, less severe effects, like insomnia, may last even longer. And like other opiates, dangerous withdrawal symptoms are rare. Here are two links that address all this…..
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to sophia here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-withdrawing-from-kratom-alone
I would support him where he is. It’s pretty commendable to get off heroine or opioids with Kratom. Give him a few months to feel good about himself. It’s a monumental task he has accomplished, and go from there. I would worry about nitpicking. He’s done great, and it’s not our desired route, but yet, he’s off heroine. Not bad. Give him some time to re-group. Sounds like a great kid, actually. Working hard!!! xo M
Hi AIR and Dominique. It’s been just a little more than 20 days since our son relapsed and overdosed twice. Thank God he is ok. He seems to be doing ok at the new sober house; in fact, someone there was trying to involve him in some drama and he spoke up for himself and refused to get involved. He’s deservedly proud of himself, as are we. His sponsor is working closely with him and his job is keeping him busy. He is back to paying his own way now for food and the sober house, though I did help him with his phone.
Yesterday I drove him to his court appointments, and then we spent hours at the RMV getting a potential suspension cleared. Through it all he was calm and accepting (me too thanks to what I’ve learned here) and we stopped for lunch and had a great day together in spite of our dealings with bureaucracy, We talked frankly about our feelings and fears, and I told him how much I enjoy being with him when he is clean and what a nice day I was having. We laughed a lot. HE bought dinner!
It’s these little moments of normalcy that I can’t take for granted. They are precious. They give me hope. Last time I chimed in I felt so beat down and sad. Things are better…as they say, just for today. He says he really wants his sobriety and I believe it. I pray that he gets there …and as bad as it can get at times, through this website and CRAFT I’m trying hard, too. Yesterday was a day I’ll keep in my heart forever.
Thanks for reading and God bless our Loved ones.
Mothra
Mothra, What a heartening message to read, for this entire community. Thank you for taking the time to tell us your Good News. We are thrilled for your son’s progress, his gradual taking back of his independence, his embracing of recovery. You are in our thoughts.
-Isabel
You remind me that inside our Loved Ones, there is a wonderful human being. Addiction warps, hardens, and makes the soft gentle person disappear. Thank you for reminding us that the son you know is still there.
Ok.. we’re just getting started and we’re right in the middle of something. My 21 year old son was given the car keys back after testing clean for THC on the condition that it would only be used to go back and forth to work. I now see that he’s using it beyond those agreed boundaries. What do I do? I want to call him on his lying, and take away the keys again. I’m not sure he’s using but he’s not keeping to the agreement.
Hi Sophia,
I understand your concerns, I have been there myself with my Loved One. There were many times my husband and I set up rules and expectations for behavior around something I saw as a privilege that my husband and I were offering our Loved One. Our thoughts were, we were giving our Loved One an incentive to act in a mature manner, only to find that he was struggling to live up to our expectations. Then it became difficult to pull back and take away the privilege, a consequence we had promised if he was unable to follow through on his end of the bargain. We learned though, that if we did not enact the consequences we had promised, we were teaching our son that it was also okay for him to not follow the rules. When this happened, we found that we were then headed for disaster. If he could break this rule, why not break the next? and the one after that? We were getting nowhere.
There are a few strategies that my husband I learned that helped us to get a better handle on these situations maybe sharing them with you might help?
First, if we set up a consequence for something then we follow through. We felt we had to, just to drive the point home that, we will do what we say we will do. If we don’t follow our own boundaries then why should our Loved One?
This led us to the second strategy. When trying to create our own consequences, we make sure that we are capable of following through. We work to create consequences that are manageable. For us, there is no more threatening things like, “if you break the rules you’re out of here,” knowing full well we have no intention of kicking him out. We found that empty threats often backfired. Whereas reasonable consequences made it easy to maintain healthy boundaries.
We know that CRAFT is intended to be used with Substance Use Disorder(SUD), but we found that it could be used in all manners of life. Learning module 5 helped us to have a better understanding of how to use rewards. Rewards and incentives should come after the behavior and not before. Maybe in your case it might be something like, “Thank you so much for following our guidelines with the use of the car and coming straight home from work. Let’s go for a drive and get some ice cream.”
Module 5 also outlines a way to respond when our Loved Ones start testing the waters and pushing the rules. Noticing the struggle to follow the boundaries then, ask for ways to help them get back on track. In your situation it might sound something like, “I noticed you did not come straight home after work yesterday. What can I do to help you stay within the parameters so you can continue to use the car?”
I know a lot of what I wrote is simple when written but, can be difficult to implement. My husband and I had to practice, practice, practice, and even now we have to practice. We still make mistakes and have to go back to the drawing board!
Expect mistakes and be forgiving of yourself. I hope my sharing will help. Remember, you are not alone! We are all in this together.
Our 24 year old son is sober and living in a sober living home. He has 4 months of sobriety and says he attends meetings 7 days a week. He was in an IOP but was released due to an incident with a girl who was in the program that seemed fairly harmless to us, but it was the rule. The Sober living did not discharge him and he feels supported by the men there and enjoys it. The problem is that he drug his feet getting a job, even though everyone told him he needed one. He had one in a warehouse for a day and quit. He made a little money writing a workout program (he was a personal trainer) and rather than use it to buy food or coffee or cigarettes, he got a tattoo. The other men at the Sober Living were not happy with him either, not because he got a tattoo but because they had been helping him out with small things, a burger, a coffee etc as we do not give him ANY money and he has none. So it took him 7 weeks to finally get a full time job. The issue we now have is that we paid for three months of the Sober Living (which includes food). Payment is due on Monday if he is to stay another month, which he would like. I am torn. I feel we should support his sobriety and recovery, but I am not sure he is really is going to meetings or doing the hard work of recovery. We have been burned before after rehab and do not want to enable. He has no car, not enough money apparently for rent and his new job will not even cover the cost of a month at Sober Living. Do we help him stay there? We can afford to, we just don’t want to do something that will hurt his ability to help himself. We have been though a lot, as most parents of addicts and we are skeptical. Please weigh in!!
Dear mandybrownaz,
The question is whether or not to pay for another month of sober living, given the concerns you have about your son’s choices and what he’s doing with the little money he’s managed to earn. A tattoo! Despite what families hope and sometimes count on, common sense, daily skills of living, getting a job, etc are not guaranteed results of abstinence and recovery. This is the work of a lifetime, work we dearly hope they will do.
Yes, there is still worry after your Loved One stops using. Putting down the drink and the drug isn’t a panacea. It’s a first step.
On the bright side: your son likes sober living, appears sober, is apparently attending self-help, and feels supported in his recovery. This is truly positive, something to give thanks for daily. Now, to the nitty gritty of his choices and yours…
Perhaps it is time to have a conversation with him, and explain that you want to do everything you can to support his recovery, but that paying for sober living ad infinitum is beginning to feel like you’re not exactly supporting his recovery, because you’re not helping him to become self-reliant and financially independent.
Can the two of you agree on some terms, 2 or 3 things he can commit to working on over the next month, to hold up his part of the bargain? Is there a way for you to get actual confirmation that he is attending meetings? Can your son sign a waiver allowing staff to give you updates on his meeting attendance, for example? Can he commit to paying for 10 percent, or 20, of the monthly rent starting next month? The specific details of your agreement are less important than the fact that you are signalling to him the beginning of a transition towards him taking more responsibility and your still being there but gradually weaning the financial assistance.
Of course, it’s also important for him to hear how proud you both are of his progress thus far. Plan to check in with him on an agreed-upon date that leaves you time before the next rent is due. Make sure to discuss with him what consequences he can expect if he chooses not to hold up his part of the deal.
Thanks for checking in. Don’t forget to remember your selves and your needs in this time as well.
PS — We recently published a comment about putting “enabling” into a context and trying to judge where your Loved One is on the continuum of use … here it is:
Enabling is about context. If your son is doing well, is not using, and is doing what is being suggested to him at the house and for treatment and support, then enable him to continue by paying the rent for a specific time period — he still needs to find that job but everything else about his recovery is good. So support this continued effort with the clear expectation that a job is needed by X.
If your son is using or close to using and refusing to do anything about it, then a warning with a specific set of possible remedies and a specific time period is fair, like 30 days. A couple months longer of just sitting there unwilling to stop using or to seek additional help is looking more like enabling, as in you are making it easier for him to spend money on drugs, since you are picking up the cost of rent. You are making his use more comfortable by providing the roof over his head.
You can see these scenarios as two ends of a continuum. You’ll have to weigh the good and the bad, but in first order is the substance use…. is your Loved One heading towards recovery or towards problematic use.
Thank you. We did meet with our son yesterday and had requested that he give us a plan for how he can help move forward to support himself. He has agreed to pay half his monthly salary for his sober living, and claims he will save the remainder for his next living situation and start and emergency fund. While his understanding of finances is unrealistic, he did pay his own phone bill and he says he does want to become self sufficient but is not ready to leave sober living.
I am cautiously encouraged, even though this is not ideal it is far better progress than he has ever made in recovery. The first and last sober living he was in was not a good fit and he moved out after two months and began using again. Now he is on his fourth month in Sober Living and wants to stay. His house manager and the manager of the group of Sober Livings have told me he is doing the work and is good to have around for the other residents, which is good to hear.
My husband is still skeptical as it has been a long hard road. I am trusting my higher power to take care of the things that I must not and cannot. I appreciate your comments and feel supported in our decision to help our son stay in an accountable and supportive sober living. We do attend support groups and will be at one tonight! I often feel we KNOW what we should do, yet struggle with the gray areas. Asking others is sometimes helpful, but also, I think every recovering addict/alcoholic has different needs. Being super tough is appropriate at times, but also encouraging good and positive actions, is to me invaluable to my son’s recovery. Nothing is promised, and I don’t want to enable, nor do I want to have regrets.
I live with my fiance’ of 6 years. He has two boys age 20 and 22. My kids are 21 and 23. His boys don’t live with us but visit a lot. My daughter does live with us. We both have a child struggling with alcohol. We handle things very different with our kids when they are using and agreed that we would each stay out of each other’s choices of how to handle when our kids are using. However, lately, that hasn’t been the case. Every time his son comes here, he has been drinking. But, his dad doesn’t see it, and it is causing us to argue with each other. I love his children and he loves mine. I don’t know what to do when he comes over though.
Everything is going to be easier, and your efforts more successful, if family members dealing with the addiction of a Loved One are on the same page.
Your fiancé and you have decided to address the addiction of your own children, and to stay out of the details of your partner’s response with their biological child. You’ve probably done this because you each believe your approach is best, and because it avoids the possible friction between you when you see the other doing and saying things with which you don’t agree.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Danic9123 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-our-front-is-not-so-united
Hello AIR,
One month ago our eighteen year old daughter relapsed after immediately coming home from a seven month residential treatment program. This was her second experience of a relapse immediately following treatment. (We live in a province in Canada where there are no structured AfterCare programs.) Her diagnosis is concurrent disorders of PTSD (based on childhood trauma) and substance use disorder (intravenous heroin). Every day for the past four weeks she has stayed in bed asleep for most of the day and gone out in the evening (presumably to get her drugs). When she comes home at night she sometimes talks about stopping, or about wishing she could just open her eyes and be in a new place and be at college full time, but the following morning it is too hard for her to act on anything and the cycle continues. I have always tried to follow the CRAFT approach, but until I just joined AIR last week, I had not heard about the idea of distancing myself as a means of motivating behavior change. We have established strict boundaries and are not giving her ANY resources, rides, support, etc. unless it is directly related to her recovery, but I find it difficult to believe that distancing myself is going to be helpful. She has already distanced herself from everyone who loves her and whom she loves, and my husband and I are the only people she has a positive connection with. He works out of town so I am the ONLY person left and if I distance myself, she won’t have anyone. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.
Learning Module 4 describes what you can do when you see your Loved One is not using. In a word, reward! This can include your presence, your attention, a dinner, a loving gesture. But when your Loved One is using (including just before they use, while high, or in withdrawal), you want to remove rewards, allow natural consequences, and disengage. You are a reward, even when you are naggy or angry. You are their anchor; you signal things are normal. Disengaging yourself signals things are not okay. You go to your room. Leave her alone.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Sophie here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-do-i-have-to-kick-her-out
Why is nighttime so difficult for my son. He gets up as one person then around 6 in the evening he gets that panicked, scared look and it goes on till he finally sleeps.
It’s hard to answer the question of why your son is having such wild mood and behavior swings over the course of the day. One place to start is to mark alongside the mood changes what you believe he is doing with respect to drugs or alcohol. It’s the Key Observations exercises 3 and 4 in Module 3 of the Learning Center.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to golf61 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-what-do-these-mood-shifts-mean
Are there any group meetings based around Family support for my wife and I that are around Craft and Support for us. We are both so drained and depressed with no energy left to fight or fix.. never mind maintain our life.
We need to be around people in the same boat that might help.
Any info would be great about groups . God bless thank you
We have trained facilitators to run groups based on the CRAFT curriculum in a number of sites in Massachusetts and one in Connecticut. I am not sure about the status or time of these groups. Let me know by using “contact us” where you are and we will check.
Dominique
Hi Dominique,
There are Resources Education and Support Together (REST) meetings in RI. They are CRAFT based meetings and in fact use the videos and activities from AiR. There are also supplementary activities and guest speakers. You can go to the website to find the places and times:
http://www.resthelps.org
The meetings are very supportive and caring.
My son abuses Xanax. He lives with his girlfriend who also uses, and is very controlling. He is co-dependent with her. Recently he got fired from his job for using while working. I brought him to the ER and he entered a 3 day detox. It was a disaster. He is angrier at me than ever. I admit I approached this crisis using anger, guilting, and controlling behavior, but this was before I enrolled in AiR. We are now estranged and not speaking.
You did the right thing taking your son to the ER and getting him into detox. Perhaps the method you used to engage him could use a little tweaking, that would be true for many of us upon learning that the drug use is serious. Xanax is a benzodiazepine, an anti-anxiety drug that is dangerous to withdraw from. Seizures during withdrawal can cause death.
Your son listened to you and entered a detoxification unit. He is mad at you and you are now estranged.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to gmouse0238 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-detoxed-from-xanax-now-wont-speak-to-me
I can’t seem to retrace my steps and find the resource on ‘housing as a reward’…where is info on that? My son will be getting out of residential treatment and will be on suboxone. We are having difficulty finding a halfway house that permits MAT. I’m trying to think through options and how to not take on his responsibilities while supporting his early stage recovery (once again, I might add!)
Hi DetachLove3,
You can find “home a reward” on the sidebar of the Discussion Blog. But here’s a link to get there even quicker! Dominique Simon-Levine may have another comment, but at least this gets you started on your research… https://alliesinrecovery.net/all_blogs?topic=259
Thanks Isabel. In addition you should know that sober houses that take state monies are not allowed to deny admission to people on MAT. Dominique
All states or just Massachussetts?
I only know about Massachusetts. Other states may also be imposing this regulation on their funding. You’ll need to ask.
My daughter has been 9 months clean from heroin use. She went back to college to the old college where use began, mainly because it seemed natural to finish up classes, and we couldn’t get our money back (35k per semester, and we are broke from Silver Hill Rehab).
Well, I arrived, and she loudly said she had to change her tampon in the bathroom, and I immediately knew. My heart raced. She went to he bathroom, then came back. She then left the room again, and I found her “tampon bag” full of needles. When she came back cheerfully with her laundry in hand, we had a real talk.
What now? I’ve called her treatment team. She has to finish up the next 4 weeks of school, that is our desire. She has straight As, and it will do her good to complete something. She said she had wanted to tell me, and how depressed she is, as she has been shunned by her old friends, and is never invited to a social. There is no drug recovery on campus. No support group. There was one before, but the moderator started sleeping with the newly recovered students.
So far, the plan is she is home on weekends, and I drive 2 hours on Weds to drug test her.
I have an extra Vivitrol shot. She missed her last appointment to get one. I will have to watch her do it, as she is the only one who can. It is an emergency effort now started by a psychiatrist in NYC, if kids miss their shots.
She fell deeply into loneliness and depression at college, and it was easy to turn to the usual substances. She has no friends, and the community has been so cold. I understand: it’s a small college, and everyone knows her story.
What to do after this? In 4 weeks, should she live at home and be in an outpaitent center?
I know the majority of people relapse. I am just so sad.
Advice? Thanks,
Faith In Recovery
Your daughter was in rehab, a sober house in New York, and went back to finish her freshman year at a small college. She has now relapsed on heroin.
One suggestion to be considered right away is Suboxone, which will block her use of heroin and cut the cravings to use. Vivitrol, especially when self-administered, demands a lot of motivation and more treatment than your daughter is getting at college. If you are both set on her finishing out the school year, away at a college that is not providing relapse prevention treatment or social support, then more needs to be done to guard against continued opiate use and possible overdose. A Suboxone clinic will also drug test her, so you don’t have to.
Once on Suboxone…..Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to FaithInRecovery here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-finally-went-back-to-school-but-shes-back-on-h
Hello and thank you for being here. My husband and I are new to AlliesInRecovery. We were immediately drawn towards the positive behavioral approach.
My son rarely drinks in front of us. He was diagnosed Asperger’s and ADHD at the age of 3 (he is now 23). He is on a variety of medications for ADHD and anxiety and depression. We became aware that there is an alcohol problem a few days ago. I had read enough of the CRAFT information to approach him calmly about finding 8 empty wine bottles in his drawers. He told us that he had already quit drinking a couple of weeks ago and that those were old bottles.
His pattern is to stay up very late (my husband and I go to bed at around 11), and that is when he must be doing his drinking. He is very isolated and has very few close friends, except through shows, where he plays music.
He has lied to us about his alcohol use and I am trying to figure out how to reward him for non-use, if I don’t know if he is using overnight or not.
Is Al-Anon helpful for me and my feelings? I am so sad.
I will start watching the modules with my husband. Which are the best ones for my situation?
Also, he has been accepted into Americorps and he goes across the country beginning in October. I am worried that they have a zero tolerance and he may be kicked out if he is still drinking like this. If he needs treatment, I would rather his getting it now.
Hello Tuckernuck: Your son is afflicted with Asperger’s, depression and anxiety, and a possible alcohol issue. He is 23, lives at home, and is planning to leave home to join Americorps in 6 months. You just discovered that he is drinking, probably late at night, alone. We wrote this blog post that talks about Asberger’s and substance use disorder, and our Resource Supplement has a page on the same subject (see here).
First off, let me say your son has courage. We are all scared of things that keep us back, but it shows courage to go towards those scary things that build character and resiliency. Good for him for playing music in public venues and for having been accepted into Americorps…..
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Tuckernuck here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-rarely-drinks-in-front-of-us
Update on our son who is poly-addicted and has mental health issues. This most recent run of his was the worst we’ve experienced in the 20 plus years of his addiction. This time along with heroin, cocaine was involved which made his words and actions very self-threatening, along with the fact that the law AND the bad guys were closing in. Thankfully he had frightened himself into detox, followed by a brief stint in TSS, and is now in a sober house far enough away from our area. He is slowly coming out of his fog, physically and mentally and I’m so very grateful that for now things are ok.
My concern is his demeanour, which seems removed and passive. Right before he gave in to detox he expressed suicidal ideation. He is taking his antidepressant at a lower dose so as not to run out before an upcoming evaluation. We stay in touch by phone or text and try to keep the conversion “normal” while offering lots of encouragement and we try to see him weekly if he’s willing.
I just get the feeling that something is “off.” We have always been very close and I feel he’s walling off. I’d like to hear from others who might feel this way – and I’d like some guidance on what to say to him, if anything, about this.
Thanks,
Mothra
Your son added cocaine to the drugs he was using in this most recent relapse. Stimulant abuse is on the rise. One hypothesis is that opioid users are discovering it in greater numbers and mixing it with the opioid for a better high. In a study we are running on those newly released from jail, I am seeing anecdotal evidence of new cocaine users amongst opioid users being treated for opioids. They are substituting cocaine or crack as a way to get high when opioids are no longer an option.
With the possible exception of methamphetamines, no drug surpasses cocaine in its high or its low. When the cocaine wears off, the world is bleak and dark and pointless.
It takes time for the mind to recover from cocaine but it does recover. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Mothra here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-mixed-cocaine-opiates-now-hes-newly-sober-but-s
Our 20 year old daughter was hospitalized for alcohol abuse a week ago, and is now in a rehab facility for about 2 weeks. We thought that she had not been using alcohol for the past year, but she came to us and told us that she had, in fact, been drinking again for the past several months and wanted to quit, leading to her recent hospitalization and placement in the rehab facility. Prior to her hospitalization, she was using one of our cars to drive to work and to appointments with her therapist and psychiatrist. She hopes to continue to drive after she is released from rehab. Although we have no reason to believe that she has been driving while using alcohol, we cannot be sure. We are concerned about her safety, other drivers’ safety, and our own liability if she were to have an accident.
We have just joined Allies for Recovery, and have not completed all of the modules. We appreciate the softer approach that is being recommended, as it is similar to the approach that we have taken with her. But, because of the very serious safety issues if she were to drive while intoxicated, we are considering installing a breathalyzer in the car. The only other alternative we can realistically consider is to take the car away from her. The idea of a breathalyzer seems a bit harsh and definitely controlling, but seems necessary if she is going to be able to continue to drive. Of course, we will discuss this with her, but I think we will need to present it to her as choosing between the 2 options: driving with a breathalyzer or not driving at all. I am quite sure that she will choose to drive with a breathalyzer instead of not being able to drive at all, but will probably not be too happy about it.
What are your thoughts on the use of a breathalyzer in the car? We would really appreciate your input.
There are many hard decisions and negotiations with a Loved One who is struggling with substance issues. Use of a car is one common dilemma. Cars in our society are pretty much a necessity, the alternatives being time-consuming and much less comfortable.
The Learning Module on rewarding non-use could frame the lending of a car as a reward for non-use. “Thank you for addressing your drinking problem, promise not to drink and you can use the car today….”
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to sunflower here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-she-wants-to-borrow-the-car-were-uneasy
Hello. The 20-year-old son of a family friend just passed away of a heroin overdose this week. As the sister of a brother who’s been a SUD for over 10 years, I understand how complex and difficult it is to navigate being around someone with SUD. However, I have never personally known someone who has lost a child to overdose until now. Typically people bring flowers or food for condolences. But I was curious if the community had any thoughts or ideas on items, prayers, books, etc that could bring a moment of solace to this family. Any ideas would help.
Thanks.
Dear Bigfluffydog2,
I love your kindness and regard. While I too have been connected closely with those deep in addiction, I have not endured the loss of a child. However, I have two dear friends from opposite sides of the country who have both suffered the excruciating loss of a son to overdose. Both have been very honest, open and transparent with me when it came to what they needed and did not need. I was careful to ask, because I did not want to cause further pain with my lack of full understanding. Sometimes even well-meant comments and gifts can unintentionally wound further. It truly is a raw, sensitive situation.
I found that both appreciated gifts that included things like a journal, framed pictures of their child, framed quotes that were comforting. Also – remembering and acknowledging important dates was truly appreciated – birthdays, anniversaries etc. and sending a card that maybe included a favorite coffee shop. This lets them know they’re thought of and supported on those tender days. Their child not being forgotten always seems to be of utmost importance. Sincere words, memories, and gifts related to them has been my focus.
More than anything, both indicated that they appreciate considerate, loving presence. Checking in to let someone know they won’t be forgotten or left to mourn forever on their own…or visiting (as much as they are okay with) and sitting quietly with someone in there pain can be very comforting. Many people don’t know what to say so they say nothing. It doesn’t have to be profound, it just needs to be sincere and compassionate. I have a feeling you will handle it well, to inquire shows the empathetic, kind heart you have. Your friend is blessed to have your friendship.
Best of wishes to you as you send comfort,
Annie
Hello. I am new to this program, and I very much appreciate all that I have learned here. My son is a recovering heroin addict. He went into treatment in Florida on Christmas Eve, and he was there for 45 days. When he was released from treatment, he tried going into a sober living house nearby. A lot of things went against him while he was there, and against our better judgment, we let him move back in with us. Things quickly started to deteriorate once he got home, and he relapsed with weed. We tried to get him back into in-patient treatment, but insurance would not approve it because it was just weed that he was relapsing with. He is attending outpatient treatment, but he continues to use weed…. And sometimes pretty heavily. I started researching the internet and found out about your program. I have been implementing the positive talk with him for a couple of days now, and we have had some days that are just great, but we still have some days that aren’t so great. One thing that is really frustrating is he continues to smoke pot in our house. The treatment center does not recommend kicking him out, and my heart tells me they are right. I have also nicely asked that he stop doing this in my house. I know that I cannot control what he does, but when he is living in my house I feel that I should be able to have some boundaries. I just do not know an effective way to put a stop to this, or if I even can. Also, on two different occasions we have had company at our house. Both times, he has been high. It is super embarrassing to me, and these people specifically came to her house to see him. I know that we are supposed to try to get away from him when he is using. But, I don’t know how to implement this in this situation. Any suggestions for the two issues would be greatly appreciated. We are kind of in a holding pattern right now. Things need to either turn for the better with the outpatient treatment (he just started), or the worse, so that we can get him more inpatient help. Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much again for creating this website. I am so impressed with all it. And I wish I would have known about it 5 years ago. Thanks again!
Your son came home from treatment and has since started using marijuana. He is still abstinent from heroin. From what you wrote, the outpatient place he is now attending knows he is using marijuana and has counseled you to not kick him out.
A couple points about the marijuana. Is marijuana a new drug for your son? Or has he always been a marijuana user? Many people quit their drug of choice and go onto “the marijuana maintenance plan.” Marijuana is easily available, relatively inexpensive, it has few dramatic and chaotic consequences, and gets you high. Perhaps not the way your drug of choice gets you high, but it’s a high. The outpatient treatment program is likely addressing the marijuana to some extent, but probably views it as less harmful than a return to the heroin use. For some treatment programs, marijuana hardly moves the needle, as you found out when your insurance company refused to pay for inpatient treatment…..
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Ivy2015 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-out-of-treatment-for-heroin-and-smoking-pot-at
That is a great suggestion Isabel. Thank you so much for your advice. I really appreciate it. I will definitely follow your suggestions. I am so grateful for having found Allies in Recovery.
We’re so glad you found us, too!
I am just letting out steam really. I find it quite difficult to find an opiod treatment program for anyone who also has medical issues. The resources listed in the community seem to look good on paper…but then the reality sets in when the time comes for action.
A family member is male, age 30 but also has a pacemaker implanted for his heart condition. He is taking suboxone and does not like the way it makes him feel, but he has followed the doctors direction. He seems to have difficulty getting off the suboxone without causing cardiac issues when he gets to the smallest dose. He also has severe PTSD and major depression and is followed by a psychiatrist and therapist.
When he has lost sobriety and needed detox or a longer term placement the big “NO” sign comes up because of cardiac and mental health issues. He has gone into a detox and was not given his cardiac medication because “they don’t do that”, which was dangerous or he was accepted for a few days and sent home on suboxone. His insurance refuses to cover any treatment for more than a few days. He has no financial resources to live at a program short term to really get the support he needs.
My frustration is there seems to be a lack of residential treatment for anyone who suffers from addiction who does not have the financial means to pay privately. When you add in a mental health diagnosis or serious medical condition an even bigger wall goes up. He is thankful for the day or two he gets in detox, follows up with outpatient treatment but eventually transportation from friends dries up. There is no public transportation where he lives. It is easier to find opiods in an isolated community than it is to find treatment options. Very sad to say.
Dear Gardenmom1:
It can be difficult to find treatment under the best of conditions. The public system is often overwhelmed, especially in the winter. Insurance is still limited when it comes to paying for addiction treatment, as you have found out with medical detoxification.
Medical detoxification treats the physical withdrawals only, so out you go after a couple days. Detoxification units are not set up to treat people with serious medical conditions.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Gardenmom1 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-will-he-ever-get-treatment-with-multiple-menta
I Just Got Denied Coverage….Now What? Dominique Simon-Levine suggests you look at this article: https://drugfree.org/parent-blog/i-just-got-denied-coverage-now-what-how-to-file-an-insurance-appeal-for-substance-use-disorder/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=parent&utm_campaign=insurance_appeal#more
HELP!!
my adult child visited a month ago, early February. She has a substance abuse problem, mostly opioids and alcohol. While staying with me, she suffered two seizures, one at home and one at the hospital. I was alone at home when she had a Grand-Mal seizure, and I thought she was going to die. I called the medics and when they arrived her seizure had stopped so they did not see anything. Apparently, her vitals were normal. They asked me what I wanted to do, and I said they should drive her to the hospital by ambulance. I was afraid she will have another seizure if I had driven her by myself. While at the hospital, I found out that she was pregnant. She denies that her substance abuse (alcohol and opiates) caused her seizures, but the doctors at the hospital said it was probably from alcohol and medication withdrawal. At first, the doctor seemed to doubt that she had a grand-map seizure, but she had another one when he was in the room. They may had done a toxicology test though they did not tell me, except at one point three doctors stood in front of her and asked her how many xanaxs she had been taking.
Her primary care physician is still prescribing her oxycotin, even as he is aware of her pregnancy and seizures.
I stayed at the hospital with her right after her seizures. Considering her pregnancy, I was hoping that the doctors will give my daughter a referral for treatment. They refused to discuss anything with me. They said she could continue all her prescription meds except for one. They called that “Medication Protocol”
After going back to her place back south, my daughter asked me to send her an amazon card to help her with buying things for the baby. I know that she buys drugs on the street. I am terrified to send her money, or even an Amazon card to buy things for the baby. I am afraid that she will use it for drugs.
She did text me threatening not to stay with me if I don’t send her money.
She is supposed to come back in two weeks, and I need help.
Thank you.
Your adult daughter had a seizure. You called an ambulance and because you insisted she be taken to the hospital, she was in a safe place when she had a second seizure. If it wasn’t for your sound judgment, this situation would have been far worse. I was just talking with a mom about how parents and other family members can become immune to what they observe in a Loved One with SUD. The person passes out or is acting irrationally and because the family member has seen it before, they don’t think much of it. Rather, they think the kid’s just passed out from alcohol or that the angry mood will pass.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to ritzn here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-pregnant-and-demanding-amazon-cards-for-the-b
Our son decided to stop using alcohol and said he had found something online that would help him. What he found were the chemicals to make his own benzodiazepines. These chemicals are readily available on the internet as research drugs. With no control of dosage, he became a zombie with no memory-a side effect of the drugs. After an apparent seizure, he was hospitalized for a week and released. In hindsight, we should have been in court seeking a section 35 (which is for a short term committal in Massachusetts). But, it was a week before Christmas so we didn’t. After his third seizure, he became committed to withdrawing. He refuses therapy so he can’t get a prescription for any legal drugs. At the moment, he seems to have stopped using and has become the most normal that he has been in years, but without therapy. Has anyone else had experience with “benzos”? I might also add that if someone you love begins getting a lot of small packages in the mail, it pays to investigate.
Benzodiazepines (like valium, xanax) are anti-anxiety medications. They are highly addictive and can be dangerous to withdraw from. Withdrawals are marked by life-threatening seizures. Alcohol and benzodiazepines are the two drugs you worry about most with withdrawals. They are also often taken together. The alcohol makes the benzodiazepines even more relaxing. Judy Garland was famously addicted to both. The other thing worth noting about benzodiazepines is it is a respiratory depressant. Taken in combination with alcohol or an opiate, they increase sedation and depress breathing. A recent Centers for Disease Control report found that 17% of overdose deaths from opiates also include a benzodiazepine.
I did not know you could make your own benzodiazepine through the purchase of legal ingredients online. Thank you for letting us know.
Benzodiazepines can be given to help withdraw from alcohol and, more obviously, to reduce anxiety but this requires proper medical supervision and, in the case of anxiety, with the knowledge by the clinician that the person has addiction issues.
My son got benzodiazepines regularly from a physician. He would say, yes he’d go to therapy, never did, but the prescriptions kept coming. It only ended when there was an investigation of my son using several pharmacies at once to get multiple prescriptions (after a bottle with his name on it was found by police on someone else.) Once the physician’s name was brought up, he finally stopped prescribing. Sadly, I’ve found that there’s always someone with prescription privledges that can be found, and when that dries up, there’s another to take his/her place.
He had also withdrawn from benzos and heroin while in jail for a brief time, had a serious seizure and had to be hospitalized. This was a few years ago, but he kept using. (His detoxes always add anti-seizure meds now because of that history.) Many seizures later, he managed to get off of them on his own, very slowly; and I don’t think he’s started them again. He always says he’ll go to therapy, but has only gone a few times; once things in therapy get more intense, he stops going. I think it’s because it’s hard to face himself and the possible traumas that contributed to his SUD, which he won’t talk about. There’s so much fear.
Right now, we’re grateful that he is in a halfway house, though still sick and withdrawing from long term suboxone/heroin back and forth use. He seems to be just holding up there; not going to meetings because he doesn’t feel good. But he’s safe this moment, far enough away from his connections, and every day clean can bring a little more clarity.
Looking for reassurance
That I did the right thing
I have been struggling with my son’s addiction along with my husband for years but recently the addiction has really escalated
With a lot of angry outbursts and destruction of our house by throwing things and punching holes in walls.
He also has a 2 year old daughter who we have temporary custody of with the other set of grandparents.
He has had screaming fits around her and has been visibly high/drunk around her. I recently told him that I didn’t want him coming to the house anymore because if this.
He has his own apartment so it’s not like he doesn’t have a place to live.
I told him that I would be willing to meet him with his daughter at a kid-friendly place as long as he was
Sober.
I told him that I love him but that it’s time to make some changes. He said that I have abandoned him. I assured him that I haven’t but now he won’t respond to my texts. This has been really hard.
Your son’s addiction is progressing and it is causing more angry outbursts from him, some when he’s high and both at times in front of his young daughter. It is super hard when there are children involved. We have touched on this topic before on the blog. Here’s a link to the “when young children are involved” topic that lists all related posts.
As a parent and grandparent you are forced to manage many things at once. There are these surprising spikes of angry emotion from your son, and your own immediate surge of adrenalin as you quickly try to figure out how to calm things down—which includes protecting your granddaughter from seeing these showdowns—while angling for him to seek help.
…..Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to susieb here at https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-angry-says-weve-abandoned-him
Our almost 18 year old son is about to be discharged from a rehab after a little more than 5 weeks. He has been working hard (he asked to go there) and his relapse prevention plan looks good (in writing). I know this “re-entry” period is critical –I want to give him credit for the work he has done and I want to show faith in his ability to succeed (while realizing that relapse is more common than not). My stumbling block is in my (in)ability to trust him, specifically because he clearly engaged in illegal activities while actively using…aside from breaking into lock boxes at home and taking our car/using my credit card without permission, things began to appear around our home that he has no good explanation for (multiple watches, various electronics, an xbox, as well as stray pieces of silver, etc). Circumstances even suggest he may have stolen from friends. I do feel that he was “not in his right mind” when involved in these activities, and when he is thinking clearly I believe his moral compass is *not* antisocial, but I am having a hard time reconciling these actions and not feeling judgmental, as I’m frankly appalled. I’m also very nervous about the temptation for him to re-engage with whatever crowd he was mixed up with, who clearly had an influence on him and may have even expected criminal behavior in exchange for access to drugs. Do you have any advice to help us move forward? He will be stepping down to a partial hospital program as a transition and then starting an outpatient group and returning to an outpatient therapist in a substance abuse program, while also attending NA meetings.
There is no other disease, with the exception of some mental illnesses, that have such a large and negative lifestyle component. We often hear how a substance disorder is like diabetes, a chronic disease that demands a lifetime of attention. Well, it’s not exactly like diabetes. Diabetes wouldn’t have you stealing from your parents or others, joining a network of people who get along by doing harm, lying, and/or tricking well-meaning family members into meeting their drug needs.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to fanochoklit here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-want-to-trust-him-again-but
Although I am looking into sectioning and plan to visit the court tomorrow to talk to someone about how we ready ourselves for the process, I have a question for Dominique and the community.
We just got a call from our son who is in detox. He went in Wednesday late afternoon. He is saying that he’s told them he’s homeless and has no where to go after release, and that the social worker he’s working with has not been able to come up with any placements for aftercare, like a CSS or TSS or a longer term program, and he thinks he’s being discharged tomorrow (Monday) – that’s only 5 days! State insurance. I don’t know how much he is stressing the homelessness part. He is still quite foggy.
Has anyone ever called the detox center (I know they won’t tell me anything about his care or even acknowledge he’s there) just to stress how much he needs further help? I’m going to do this tomorrow, and am looking for the right things to say. I don’t want to be coerced into saying we’ll give him a place to stay as that is not possible at this time.
thanks,
Mothra
From mass.gov regulatory bulletin:
Access to Acute Treatment Services and Clinical Stabilization Services
Chapter 258 requires insured health plans[1] offered under M.G.L. chapters 175, 176A, 176B, and 176G (hereinafter referred to as an insured health plan) that are issued, delivered or renewed within the commonwealth and considered creditable coverage under section 1 of chapter 111M to provide coverage for medically necessary acute treatment services and medically necessary clinical stabilization services for at least 14 consecutive days. Medical necessity is to be determined by the treating clinician in consultation with the patient.
http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/insurance/providers-and-producers/doi-regulatory-info/doi-regulatory-bulletins/2015-doi-bulletins/bulletin-2015-05.html
Absolutely, call the detox. Tell them he cannot come home. Your son is homeless. Explain that you know they can’t talk to you, but you are going to talk to them. Also, check into McLean’s
From another parent I recently spoke to:
Just talked to insurance and it will cover detox at Belmont and residential at Ashburnham. Due to Chapter 258 in state of Mass. there are 14 days of coverage for combined detox and residential without medical review. After 14 days, the continued stay at residential is subject to review of medical necessity determinations.
Also, call the help line to see if a bed opens up anywhere across the state first thing tomorrow: 800.327.5050 They open at 8AM.
Can others on this site provide further guidance?
Dominique
Thank you so much Dominique for the information and quick response.
I called the Mass Helpline; they gave me information on CSS’s and TSS’s and told me which ones had beds available over the last day and faxed me contact information 6 or 7 of them. I called each one, and a couple said they may have beds available in CSS. All TSS’s were full and had waiting lists.
Meanwhile my son called to say that he was going to be discharged as of yesterday and was very anxious about it. I called the social worker direct and left her a message that he was not safe to be released from detox, that he was homeless and will relapse within minutes of leaving, and needs extended care. I gave her the info I had on the CSS that had had beds the day before. I also gave all the other info and phone numbers to my son and he actually wrote it down (no mean feat!) and brought it to the SW.
He called later saying that he had been given an extra couple of days in detox while the SW calls more places. One place had left extensive details as to how to best contact the placement person, and my son had passed it on correctly and they were able to email that person.
Haven’t heard anything today, but one thing I know is that NONE of the places I contacted were on the SW’s list; she was only calling local places.
Bottom line: although I don’t know the outcome yet, I highly recommend doing this research and contacting the detox. All the time spent was worth it. At the very least he got a couple more much needed days of detox out of it.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
PS Naukeag after detox at McLeans was his most recent extended care – he was there for 2 weeks, seemed in great shape when he left, then went to a halfway house where he used within days. I HATE this disease!
Hello AIR – we are in big trouble here. Our son has been using heroin,
cocaine, fentanyl, and any and all drugs available to him. This has
been going on for over 20 years, with the occasional brief periods of
non use. Too many detoxes to count, multiple failed relationships, most
often with another addict, have caused him to always be in a crises of
some sort. We do not allow him to live with us, but let him come here
when he’s hopeful and trying to get clean, giving him a place to arrange
detox from. This has helped him in the past, getting him a month or a
few weeks of clean time.
Lately it seems he’s been using trying to get into detox as a way to
get into the house for rest or food or safety (hiding from girlfriend,
police or bad guys) and more recently stealing from us. All the little
scams and larcenies are adding up. Fines and court dates abound, usually
ignored unless we push him to deal with things, like constantly
reminding him of court dates, fines due, etc. He recently used my
husband’s car in a crime, which is being investigated. We are horrified
and afraid for him. The last couple of times he’s come here, he’s been
somewhat surly with us, as though we disgust HIM. I’ve often thought of
section 35, and have missed a couple of opportunities to go through with
it. Also I’m a little unsure of the process.
Today he called saying his girlfriend was crazy, he had to get away
from her,and would Dad meet him at a gas station so he could get gas and
then he’d come home and try to get into detox. We do not give money. On
the way here, he managed to turn off the road home and was gone for
several hours. This is not the first time he’s done this. When he came
in this evening I think he feigned making calls to detox, there’s signs
he used in the house; said he was tired and wanted to sleep and would
call detox again in the morning and was going to bed, and quietly
slipped out. Once more he got something he wanted and took off. He may
try to return or we won’t hear from him for a while until he gets
desperate again.
We feel used and helpless. We try to reward his wanting to seek help
by letting him come here to make his calls to detox, have the list ready
for him, but now he’s abusing that. It’s time to Section him I think
but we need guidance. He will say he was trying to get a bed somewhere
and we betrayed him. He’s a physical and mental mess and worse than
ever. I pray for jail and can’t believe he’s not been picked up by
police. Our lives and our health, indeed our whole family, suffer from
his addiction. We know we are probably making a lot of mistakes but
don’t want to turn away from him, and don’t want him to feel abandoned
by us. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Your story could be my story! Our son has a 20 year addiction history! We got a section 35 warrant in mid January and he was able to evade being picked up as they are only good for one week. Things continued to spiral out of control and Brian was picked up on a possession warrant from last year, he called me for bail money, I refused and we seized the moment and went to the court first thing Monday morning. The judge granted the section 35. Brian was angry and trying to intimidate me with a glaring stare. I knew he would fight it and I am thankful that the judge saw through it. He did call me this morning and said “mom you did the right thing”. I am cautiously optimistic!
My advice is to go to the court clinic as soon as they open because this is a process that takes a good part of the day. Have all pertinent info about your son’s drug use, suicidal statements, health effects, etc… The warrant is only good for 5 court days and they will only pick them up between 8:30-4.
Good luck and hang in there.
Thanks for your response. This is a life I never dreamed we’d be living.
I was looking into how to Section. When I called the court magistrates office they told me the warrant was only good for one day, ending at 4:00 when the court closes. We are in Massachusetts and I had no idea where he was. He is on the verge of a warrant for theft and also has been subpoenaed to be a witness as a victim in an assault.
Then got an alarming text from son expressing regrets and sorrow for hurting us so much and saying that he just can’t stop and should end it all. A few minutes after that he sent another text saying he was alive and didn’t mean to send the first text and was ready to go to detox, could he come to the house and use the phone to call places. He was already up the street nearby and showed up minutes after the text. He was a mess, sobbing, shaking and scared. Looks like he dropped 20 lbs in a week. Had been going back and forth from suboxone to H to cocaine. We did let him come in and this time he diligently made the calls as he crashed down from the cocaine. This was probably the worst I’ve ever seen him. He was afraid of himself – and I wondered when did these continuous horrifying events become our norm?
Yesterday he got into a detox with a promising aftercare placement record and is there (I hope) now, but I doubt he is mentally able, although they do treat dual diagnosis . He has severe depression, anxiety, ADHD, PTSD. For now I will learn all I can about section 35 and will be ready to act next time.
When folks here talk about “court clinic” what does that mean? Is it specifically for addiction? I’m assuming different states do things differently.
I wish you the best and hope things work out for you and your son. I’ve been following your journey.
I’m happy to hear your son is in detox. I’m in Massachusetts too and the Section 35 is good for 5 court days M-F during court hours 830-4 So if you get it on a Tuesday it’s good until the following Monday at 4 pm. If granted the court faxes an apprehension warrant to the police department and they will look for your loved one during those hours only.
The court clinic is staffed with mental health professionals who assist in assessing individuals brought before the court for civil commitments r/t substance abuse or mental health services. The social worker will assist you in filling out the paper work, answer any questions you may have about the process and he or she will present the paperwork to the judge who makes the decision to grant or deny the Section 35.
There are 2 facilities in Massachusetts that males are committed to and luckily my son was committed to the better of the two. The average stay there is 21 days and he is on day 5. Our hope is that he will go from there to either a 1/2 way house or a sober house as our home is not an option anymore.
Good luck, I wish you and your family the best and for us it’s good to know that we are not alone! We started going to Learn to Cope meetings and the support at those meetings is amazing. Take care.
Thanks for the info on court clinic – I will find out where and everything I can so I can be ready. If they don’t send him to a longer term program or if he’s not willing, I figure he”ll be on the streets by Tuesday or Wednesday and he will use right away. I want to be able to act immediately. I’ve gone to Learn to Cope in the past and found it very helpful, but it’s been a while. Time to go back! Hope your son gets some clarity while in treatment, and wish you peace.
Mothra
My boyfriend just completed a 7 day detox after 3 months of sustained heroin use (smoking). He has been out of the facility for 72 hours and is still experiencing withdrawal symptoms (muscle pain, nausea, anxiety, insomnia). In detox, he was taking Suboxone day 1) 8mg, Day 2) 6mg, Day 3) 6mg, Day 4) 4mg, Day 5) 2mg, Day 6) 2mg, Day 7) 0 mg. They also gave him an antidepressant but then didn’t give him an Rx to continue it after release, which makes NO sense to me or him.
I have never experienced withdrawal with him before, although he has been through it multiple times and was in rehab/halfway house for a year and sober for a year and a half before this relapse. He has said he does not need to go back to treatment because he already knows what to do, he just needs to do it. He plans to go to 90 meetings in 90 days and meet with an addiction-specialist therapist once per week.
I am trying to support him the best I can but really have no experience with this and could use some advice on helping him get through with withdrawals and into a cadence of meetings and therapy.
An opiate detox is difficult. Buprenorphine (the agonist in suboxone) has one of the longest half-lives—much longer than illicit opioids. Your boyfriend will experience withdrawals over a longer period than he would the heroin. It can be a nasty surprise. He’s going to have to hang on.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to GFAllyATL here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-withdrawing-from-suboxone-at-home
My brother, who is addicted to heroin and is using other substances, seems to be in a dramatic downward spiral. Just last week, his divorce proceedings began and he lost custody of his child, though retaining the right to supervised visits. Drugs were not mentioned at the court appearance because he agreed to the terms so no evaluation was mandated.
My parents seem stunned and traumatized by his behavior in the days since and don’t seem ready (in their shock and fear) to move forward with any changes — my father did call the police because my brother took off in the car drunk and high. He was stopped and arrested, but the arresting officer did my dad the “favor” of not reporting the drug paraphernalia (pipe, spoon, syringe) that was in the car on the police report. Since my dad bailed him out, my brother has gone on at least one other binge — sending very, very disturbing text messages to my parents. At the same time, my brother has expressed deep regret after his binges.
I am in a different state and not able to speak with my brother by phone because he lives in the country with no cell phone reception and no landline.
Because this is my brother’s first DUI arrest, I am worried that the judge will choose not to mandate a drug evaluation as it is not required by law for the first DUI. I am considering contacting the district attorney or the judge, asking for anonymity, to convey my concern that my brother is suffering from serious addiction and requesting that the judge mandate a drug assessment. Is this a good idea? Are there potential negative ramifications? This seems like a moment when bringing the justice system in might be good, especially given the paralysis that seems to be gripping my parents at precisely a moment when I think my brother may be at a “low” and open to change. And also at a moment when he seems to be slipping into using other substances — crack? meth? — with potentially even worse effects than heroin. I’d greatly appreciate your advice on this potential course of action. I am going to talk it over with my sister, but I don’t know about with my parents. Would I be wracked with guilt if I did not tell them? I just don’t know.
It is best if all family members can agree on the nature of the addiction problem, the limits you can each set, and the need to step in when a one of you sees your brother not using. It is also best when everyone can agree on treatment as the main goal.
This unity is hard to orchestrate. Sometimes this is because parents are elderly or a family member is too angry, or too overwhelmed to take in new information.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to worriedinwa here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-can-the-whole-family-get-on-the-same-page
Hi I’ve been on here before telling you of my 23 yr old son. He is or was addicted to heroin or fentanol then went on suboxone which he sells some and takes some He has no job, becomes abusive with his mouth. Physical too. he hasn’t been high in 2 weeks ’cause he has no job and no money but… I give him money for haircut and cigs and feel like …WHAT KIND OF IDIOT AM I…? I ACTUALLY GET SICK LOOKING AT HIM I HATE HIM. I DONT WANT HIM HERE ANYMORE I AM TIRED OF TAKING CARE OF A 23 YR OLD MAN. HE IS DISRESPECTFUL AT ALL TURNS. HES A FREELOADER AND I DONT WANT IT ANYMORE. I WORK 10 HRS A DAY AND HATE COMING HOME AND LOOKING AT HIM HE HAS A TENDENCY TO BREAK MY CHOPE AT EVERY TURN, BEING LOUD AND SINGING OR DOING SOMETHING TO ANNOY ME. I want to come home and relax and not see him anymore. As much as I love him, I HATE HIM. I am gonna end up with him the rest of my days and I cry every single nite, I hide in my bedroom. It’s ruined my relationship with the one man that loves me unconditionally. I want him out. He will never Get It. He has the mentality of a 10 yr old. I’m done I’m sick and getting sicker by the day. Where can he go? Please help me to break away from him. I depleted my money and I just don’t want him around anymore, I dispise him now. I WORK all day while he is home doing nothing and living here for free Any advice…
It’s hard to describe to someone not living with addiction, the all-consuming angst that comes from watching someone you love behave in ways that destroy their today and their tomorrow—and yours as well.
What your son is doing is beyond his control.
He is addicted to very strong drugs. How you are seeing the situation is up to you. That may sound harsh but the immediate answer is in your court.
I can hear the exhaustion in your words, the disgust even for your son. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to jezabelle here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-nasty-and-slothful-im-done
Hello,
My wife and I are new to this site. Our 18yo son has been diagnosed with anxiety and depression. Over the past year he has developed an addiction to marijuana (DABS) and is growing addicted to benzos (xanax). Since he does not have a prescription he buys his benzos from friends, but there is no guarantee they are not spiked with something even worse.
We know that in various ways that we have been enabling his drug use and are trying to scale those activities back. One way is money. He has a part time job (still in high school) but he does not have free access to the money that he earns. A few months ago we found out that he was ordering research chemicals online so we took away his debit card to prevent him from ordering more. Now when he gets paid he gives us his check and we give him some (roughly half) of his money and put the rest in a separate account. Even though he does not have access to all his money he still manages from time to time to get ahold of benzos, which is the main drug we’re afraid of. By us giving him the cash that he earns from work, is that enabling him? Would it be better to give him control of his debit card and make him responsible for his own cash so we’re not seen as financing his usage? We’re so afraid he’ll just spend all his money on street xanax and drive himself further into addiction, or possibly death due to a fentanyl laced pill. What are your opinions?
Welcome to the site. Your son is under 18, so, in theory, you have more control over him and how he accesses and spends money. I say “in theory” because teens can still ignore a parent and do as they please. The elements of CRAFT that we teach on this site through the Learning videos— showing respect, positive communication and listening skills, boundary setting, and engaging/supporting treatment — apply equally well to those over 18 as well as those under 18. These CRAFT elements are the best studied and most successful ways to interact with someone who has a problem with drug or alcohol use. Confronting, dominating, and exerting your authority over someone doesn’t work well regardless of age.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Nkcreature here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-there-anything-we-can-do-to-prevent-him-from-sp
Hi, My son is 37 and has been struggling with opiate addiction since he was a teenager. He has been on Suboxone for about 6-7 years, which was helpful for a while, but then he started drinking and became a severe alcoholic, then was prescribed Antabuse, along with the Suboxone and before long started back on heroin again. This run has been going on for about a year. He lost his job and can’t pay his rent so he is being evicted. I offered to store some clothing and drive him to a detox. He keeps stalling me and now wants me to drive him to detox and pack up his stuff at the rooming house for him. He has zero coping skills and refuses to go to any substance meetings or counseling, etc… I want to help him, but his plan is that I do it all for him. I’ve had enough and know that I am loving and helping him to death, literally. His Dr feels that the suboxone is like insulin for a diabetic and just keeps falling for the bs story that my son feeds him. He uses for 3 weeks then detoxes himself with subs the week before on most months so the tox screen is generally negative for opiates/fentanyl. I don’t know what to do anymore.
Medication assisted treatment (MAT, in your case suboxone) for opiates is rarely enough on its own. We have said this before. It is a critical first step to facilitate withdrawals from opiates and to reduce cravings. Unless other treatments are used in combination with MAT, however, there is a likelihood that the person will start to, or continue to, use other drugs. I am fond of saying that when I was on Naltrexone and Antabuse, I had (scarily real) thoughts of snorting the little white specs in the carpet. I was so desperate to get high on something. I smoked pot, whose high I disliked. I used cocaine, which I was also not fond of, and for which I had to take benzodiazepines to come down from.
… Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to WitsEnd here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-am-i-loving-him-to-death
Hi, I’m just wanting to see if anyone has any advice on how to handle when my son asks for money. He has a great job making good money actually makes more than I do, but when you are drug addicted having a good job and making good money is never enough so he will call and tell me some of the most awesome lies you have ever heard. I will have to say some of them are pretty impressive. I have tried the reflective listening or when he texted for money I have used the I understand what it is like but he will yell and hang up or block from receiving my text and tell me he is cutting off communication because all I think he wants the money for is to buy drugs, which that is exactly what he is doing. I was under the understanding that it’s best to keep communication open but I can not continue to give him money to use for drugs. What do I say or not say when he wants money, I’m running out of ideas and excuses to try to keep the open lines and frankly I’m totally exhausted and dread when he calls or texts me because I know exactly what and how the conversation will end. Oh, and the best part of this situation is he believes that I think he is sober right now and there is no reason now to let him have money for groceries, gas,etc. if I start to say anything remotely close to what did you do with you money that’s when the sob stories begin and the lies follow and anything after that is yelling and hanging up.
Your son is bullying you to give him money. That is what he is doing: bullying.
Sounds like you are doing the right things: reflectively listening, understanding statements…these communication skills reduce the likelihood of conflict. They buy you time to come up with an answer.
Sounds like you have a twofold problem that goes beyond communicating with him. Your son is being abusive. He must be desperate to get high and doesn’t have the money. He is coming to you, his mother, for money. As his mother, you are “supposed to help” in his eyes, you are responsible for his wellbeing. His stance is that the excuses are true and you are being unfair.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to kwg6551 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-bullying-me-for-drug-money
Hi, I am writing on the recommendation of Laurie and with the support of my brothers and sister. We are struggling with the end stage alcoholism of our sisters, identical twins.
They are 53, and reading through the CRAFT material, to embrace CRAFT requires that we have closer access to them than we have. Their husbands, while generally able to control their frustration, keep knowledge and our sisters removed from us. They have listened to our sisters, who described to their spouses a negative picture of our family of origin. This was not true, but enabled them to use us as a way to drink longer.
All of our sisters’ decisions are driven by getting to the next drink. I took one to detox Christmas eve when she was passed out in the back of my car. Her BAC was low for her upon admission – only .30. She routinely is 4.0 or higher, and often hurts herself. In fact, 2 hours before I took her in, she told the police that my brother in law had caused her cuts and black eye. (Not at all true). That brother in law took her out of detox on Christmas day.
The other sister made it to Christmas lunch, without her daughter, who that morning had discovered 18 large bottles of alcohol in her dresser. She has had a mini-stroke, did not pass a MOCA 6 weeks after a detox, and is the color of a cherry all over, and is itchy.
We have made use of a great interventionist. We believe that every detox opportunity might be the one that could work. We are not judgmental of the disease (I have 27 years in sobriety). We do not have the legal power to Section.
Paradoxically, the longer one is active in the disease, the harder it is to implement CRAFT. Right now, our goal is for them to live long enough to have a shot at sobriety. At this point, the brothers in law don’t even return our calls.
We recommended AIR, (our interventionist recommended it) to no avail.
Dear diezil:
There are definite limits to what a family can do. What a difficult and complicated situation your family is in. To watch two sisters fight and resist critical help when they are obviously in much difficulty has got to be gut wrenching. It is simply crushing that their husbands have reversed actions that could have helped when you engaged them into treatment.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to diezil here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-will-they-live-long-enough-to-get-a-shot-at-sobrie
Do you have any information in regards to probuphine implant versus methadone?
Is this implant just as good???? as methadone?
I understand that one implant lasts up to 6 months. I’ve read about this on the internet, however, toooooooo much to absorb and nothing is really clear cut.
Thank you
“…the Buprenorphine implant performed as well as the sublingual/transmucosal daily Buprenorphine. However, it is only indicated for people who have been stable on standard Buprenorphine transmucosal (under the tongue) at 8mg per day or less, which is a lower than average dose. The implant lasts 6 months, and can be repeated once (in the other arm). Insurance coverage varies, and specific training is needed for health practitioners in order to provide the implant. Given these limitations, few people have received the implant compared to transmucosal Buprenorphine such as Suboxone, or Methadone. Now, a monthly injectable form of Buprenorphine was recently approved by the FDA…”
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response, in which she sites two MAT doctors, here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-is-injectable-probuphine-a-better-alternative
Just recently found out that my son was abusing prescription drugs. I had a gut feeling something was wrong for about 8 months but because he was having ACL repair for the second time wanted to believe his issues were because of his knee pain but after the surgery and well past healing time he was still looking for meds. He has agreed to mental health counseling because before he started abusing he did have severe anxiety on top of having ADD. My problem is he lives on his on and is hard to monitor or tell what he is doing when you only talk on the phone somedays. To help with the not knowing his older brother has moved in with him under the assumption that he is helping out will bills. I’m still in the anger and sadness stage but with him at least taking a step to address his mental health issues I do find my days somewhat bearable. I have always been close to my son. He is the middle child of three boys and I have always given him my special attention. We are still close and when I try to say something about the problem he says I’m blowing it up bigger than it is. I just don’t know what to say or when to say it since I don’t physically see him everyday. I just want to do the right thing at the right time and I’m lost.
It is shocking to learn that a Loved One is part of the opioid epidemic ravaging this country. This site can help. We’ve written before about having a Loved One at a long distance away. Here’s one post containing some suggestions you may find helpful.
As you have learned, it can be hard to tell over the phone when your son is high. He will probably not slur and you have no visual cues. It is subtle… is he in an unusually good mood and therefore high, or really cranky and therefore probably in withdrawals?
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to kwg651 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-can-i-intervene-from-far-away
My daughter is 22. She’s been using heroin for about 5 years now. She’s been in and out of treatment. Mostly she just up and leaves them. Her last plea to us was to do a 30 day treatment program and come home to an outpatient setting. We agreed. She did ok for about 3 weeks. Started staying out late and hanging with some unknown people uto us. She then took our car and didn’t return for over 24 hrs. We reported to our local authorities that our vehicle was taken with out permission. We were also certain she was using drugs. We did this to be responsible and didn’t wasn’t her to put other people in danger. She was arrested for taking the vehicle and a 7 degree possession charge. I went to see her in jail to find out what her plan of change was. She’s very angry at her father and I . She blames us for her arrests. She says she doesn’t want our help. Just made attempts to treatment only if I bail her out at that moment. I told her we needed to have a plan in place. She wanted no part of it. I don’t know how to handle this. She’s mad and defiant. She has it’s everyone else to blame. I will take any suggestions on how to approach this dilemma. I have minimal contact with her as she lost her phone and email privileges. I can write to her but she can’t write back. I can see her only one hour on mon and wed. She said she was denied early release. It’s not clear why but it may be because she is fighting terms of treatment. I don’t know where to go with this?
Dear ygarnsey, Well, you sure are in the thick of it…does it help to hear that what you are experiencing is not unusual?
You’ve succeeded in getting your daughter to treatment several times over. That is a testament to your relationship with her and to some motivation on her part to address her addiction.
All of this may make you want to give up on treatment. Please don’t. In one study of treatment, it took 4 treatment episodes on average to get any traction into sobriety. It’s hard to do, but every new treatment episode should be looked on as a new day…it has the chance of working; your daughter is in a new place, she may listen and be more willing; it is a break in the action and gives her body and mind a pause; and it is what you can do and stands the best chance of her recovering.
Right now she is in jail. I commend your courage in calling the police when she stole the car. It is a hard consequence to be arrested for doing something illegal but it is a natural consequence. By calling the police you protected her from driving under the influence. You helped create the contrast in her world between use and non-use….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-after-treatment-and-relapses-now-shes-in-jail
This is a question regarding the Thanksgiving holiday and how to handle it with my 24 year old son who has an alcohol substance use disorder and currently is drinking heavily. I am concerned about him being alone on the holiday. His Dad and I are divorced and there will be separate gatherings with his father’s family and my family. My son has removed himself from most involvement with extended family on both sides and has had negative interactions with some that makes him fearful of family events. He is not interested in attending family gatherings, holiday or not. Just this month he got his own apartment after moving out of his father’s house. While recognizing he is making a big effort at accountability, I am worried about him isolating in his new living arrangement. His depression and anxiety add to my concern of leaving him alone on Thanksgiving. On the holiday, if it is like a weekend day, he might likely be sober through the morning, though becomes agitated by early afternoon before drinking. What would CRAFT suggest?
Thank you very much for your help.
The holidays are a huge challenge for families. Thank you for writing in. Annie and Laurie are also working on a podcast on this topic so stay tuned.
The question you raise is a difficult one since CRAFT would suggest you wait for the day to arrive and gauge your son’s behavior in the moment. CRAFT would ask that you stay flexible. If you see your son has been drinking, you take him back to his place or cut things short if that is possible. If he is home isolating and drinking, you leave him be. If you are concerned that his anxiety could become dangerous, you call for a police wellness check.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-the-huge-challenge-of-the-holidays
My 26 yr old daughter who suffers from substance use disorder (alcohol, some cocaine) primarily and an eating disorder secondary has just agreed to go to treatment. We are looking for a reputable dual diagnosis treatment center and are bogged down in trying to find just the right fit. Location is not an issue. She has previously worked through an IOP and extensive DBT program locally with some success but symptoms have reoccured. We and she feel it its time for a residential treatment center. Any experience with specific centers or suggestions?
I have a 17 year old son who is in college. We discovered he is doing weed, vodka and nicotine. He also plays video games extensively. We think he is addicted to video games too. He skips classes very frequently. When we talked to him, he said he likes marijuana and would not give it up. He thinks the marijuana gateway drug theory has been debunked. He said he only does that once every 2 weeks which is hard to believe. We offer him to quit college so that he can play video game full time until he figure out himself. He did not want to. In the mean time his grades go to C and D levels according to him (the reality may be worse since he does not go to so many classes). Should we take him back from college? Should we pay for next semester’s tuition and living expenses so that he can “try” again?
I want to add he said when he did alcohol or marijuana he felt strong bond with his fellow users regardless of everyone’s race or kids pecking order, although temporary he admitted. We are Asian. I guess he felt lonely among the people of other races. What can anyone do to break that bond among the users?
There are other families on this site who struggle with adult children in college who are using drugs and alcohol, so thank you for writing in.
The question of paying for college is indeed a tricky one since it can be both a reward for non-use or conversely, an enabler of use, when the person uses drugs and alcohol and disregards their studies. Rewards need to be things that can be taken away quickly if and when you see the person is using. That’s hard to do with a college semester. College can be a positive behavior that competes with use. CRAFT would suggest you place these competing behaviors in front of your Loved One to discourage use…..
Read Dominique’s full post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-were-paying-for-college-while-he-parties-and-plays
I finally had an opportunity to speak with my middle-aged brother, who has been using heroin for (months?), opiates for years, and pot since high school. My family only recently learned of the heroin use. I am encouraging the entire family to learn about the CRAFT method, but I have a question about suicidal talk. It is really clear that my entire family has helped my brother avoid natural consequences of his actions for decades. We would like to start changing this. At the same time, when we talked my brother kept referring to the fact that everyone dies, their time comes, I should get used to him being gone, etc. (I had opened the conversation by saying I was worried about him because he is going through a divorce.) His tone was defensive, but he also clearly cared about me and recognized I was upset, holding my hand and giving me a hug. He has not expressed a clear plan for suicide, but he owns guns. We are all scared he might take his own life at some point, and this makes us scared of allowing natural consequences to play out. Right now, only one family member still gives him a little money from time to time, but he is allowed to come to my parents’ house for laundry, showers, dinner, and to see his daughter.
I guess my question is about how to apply CRAFT and any other advice when someone might be at risk for suicide. Or perhaps, this sort of talk is common and not necessarily a real expression of suicide intent? I didn’t see the topic on the list of discussion forum topics.
Thank you
The talk of suicide is indeed very worrisome and can stop families from allowing natural consequences. The fear is that taking away money, or not answering their phone calls, or leaving them alone when high will lead the Loved One to suicide.
To this I add two other frightening behaviors that stop families in their tracks when it comes to instituting changes in the family dynamic towards the alcohol or drug use. The first is the threat of overdose (or for that matter, any dangerous behavior like driving drunk) and the second, in adolescents and teenagers, is the threat of running away.
There are a couple reasons to worry about your brother’s situation. The risk of suicide is higher among older males, those with the means for suicide (like guns), and the crisis he is going through with his divorce. Suicide is also higher in those who abuse drugs or alcohol.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-if-suicide-is-a-risk-is-craft-still-appropriate
I feel like the most frustrated person in the whole world. I have been dealing with drugs, alcohol and my 2 adult children being in jail on and off. My oldest son, I have to admit, has not used either alcohol or drugs for about 7-8 years. But, he was abusing his prescribed meds, especially the gabapentin, and it was changing his mental health status. It seemed that no one at his mental health clinic wanted to listen to me until I threatened a law suit. He was a danger to himself and others by this time. Finally an order for a section 12 was put out to all the surrounding towns as far as Worcester. He was finally picked up there and brought to UMass Medical. Finally someone listened and all his meds were changed and he was taken off the gabapentin, something I had been begging for for almost a year. He finally started thinking clearly and admitted the gabapentin was not good for him. He is now doing much better. My other son on the other hand just got out of jail and of course for probation he is not to use drugs. He got out on a Thursday and by Saturday he was using already. Of course 2 days later he gets called in to be tested and panics. Somehow even with the strict rules he passed. Also my husband who was abstaining from alcohol now is using on and off. It so depressing and disheartening after all these years. I started the program from the beginning again and have started looking to do things more for myself and let them fend for themselves. I just feel like the only time I will really be at peace is when I am no longer here.
When three Loved Ones in your life struggle with mental illness and addiction what do you do? How do you find a safe place and some peace?
With three, I suppose there are still good periods and then there is the increased chance, given there are three, that one will end up in crisis. I know I speak for many of us who have a Loved One struggling with addiction and/or mental illness, when I tell you we get it and we deeply empathize with the added threat of unforeseen crisis that you live under.
It is traumatic to live like this. It affects your physical and mental health. … Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mlb2t here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-three-loved-ones-in-addiction—a-triple-threat
Watched Dr. OZ this week and he had a guest speaking to medical marijuana use to end addiction.
Any thoughts on this?
It sounds like the easiest and effective solution.
Is marijuana the answer for getting off of opiates? That’s an interesting question. I found and watched the segment of Dr. Oz that you are referring to. It was certainly provocative.
I am not a scientist though I strongly believe in the scientific method as a superior process for separating anecdote from harder fact.
Science has its criticisms, two of which are worth noting here: science is carried out by humans, and humans make errors and hold biases.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mom101: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-could-pot-help-with-addiction
I’m trying to do the modules about when my loved one uses.
To tell you the truth I was totally blind when it came to his use, I’ve been told he’s been using for about 15 years – EVERYTHING – I don’t know the signs – he just seems normal to me (his normal); are there certain things I should be looking for?
He’s told me he stopped heroin but was using cocaine (maybe that’s where all the money went) and then smoking crack, pot. He’s very proud that he’s not drinking.
He tried suboxone (sp) -said it didn’t work, then was on methadone – got his dose down to 30 – so I think he was using during this time (also two car accidents within a month – told someone else he blacked out – still waiting on court dates)
So I guess my question is – how does a person normally act when using Heroin, Crack, Cocaine?? MJ?? And how do they act when they need to use??
Any help is appreciated
Dear 920Sunshine!!! – thanks for writing in and I’m so glad you found this site. It sounds like you are currently on a steep learning curve, given all that you’ve realized about your Loved One’s behavior/use.ing I can imagine that everything feels really overwhelming right now but I’m sure that by watching the modules, you will find some great guiding lights for the challenges you’re facing.
Dominique Simon-Levine will respond to your request for guidance, but in the meantime, I just wanted to point out the “signs & symptoms” page that’s in our Resource Supplement. If your Loved One is mixing, or bouncing between different substances, the signs and symptoms will also likely be a bit mixed up… but it can’t hurt to become informed on what to expect from each drug he has used seriously. https://alliesinrecovery.net/supplement_04_signs_symptoms
We’ll be in touch soon to let you know when Dominique’s response has been published. Wishing you strength,
Should my daughter return to college?
My daughter used heroin for two months, in her Freshman Spring semester at college. She then reached out for help, and we put her into a wonderful rehab program in CT. After rehab, she lived in a sober house in New York City, and met a new psychiatrist, and therapy team. Her first psychiatrist wanted her to return to college right away, in the Fall, because her use was related to people and events off-campus. Her college friends are hardworking people that watched her go down the dark path, and helped her to call us, and get treatment.
Anyway, my girl really wants to go back to college. But her NEW psychiatrist is dead against it, and thinks she will relapse…So the conflicting opinion, of two psychiatrists, has her confused and feeling really anxious and scared.
How should we support her? I am tempted to go against what the psychiatrist says, and defend her ambitions. I would put in place drug testing each week, therapy each week, a sponsor, and ask the staff to let us know, through her professors, if she is going downhill academically. This would require legal releases signed by my daughter, so we are part of her treatment, etc. It is so frightening.
What if we support college, then she relapses? And what if she takes a semester off (second one), and loses touch with those friends who were so supportive…and has to start all over again to establish good friends at college. I think my daughter has a Fear of Missing Out feeling about watching her friends return to college…But I also feel like college is familiar. The fall would involve finding an apartment, or living in sober living til December. Yes: she would have the continuity of the psychiatrist and the sober living staff, but the sober house is so awful! Anyway, would love some advice. Faith In Recovery.
Attending College: will it help or hinder a relapse?
Thanks for writing in. I am thrilled to hear your daughter is doing so well. She is taking suggestions and is in treatment. It’s time to figure out next steps and you have been given conflicting advice. Should she or shouldn’t she go back to college?
What stands out to me is your daughter’s motivation to return to school. The CRAFT framework seeks to encourage pursuits that compete with use.
Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to FaithInRecovery’s question: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-will-she-relapse-if-she-goes-back-to-college
How to best handle the fact that I know my daughter is using, but I don’t know what drug. She has a good job (now) but hangs with people that don’t work and also her boyfriend is in and out of jail for drugs (I do not know more details). She’s very secretive. So I guess I want to know the best ways to handle her and talk to her in light of the fact that she is on a bad path. People probably say to themselves they wish they did this or that before their loved one lost everything to drugs, well, I’m trying to figure out how to help her avoid that.
Feeling powerless over a Loved One who is secretly using and who is putting themselves at risk is a terrible feeling. Everyone on this site can relate to your distress. Allies in Recovery is geared to giving you power, because you do have power. You have power in how you respond to your daughter, what you say, what you do, how to spot a moment when she may be willing to get some help, and how to find and get her to agree to getting that help.
1. Are they high? The place to start is when you see that she is high. She may be secretive but she can’t hide the changes that come over her when she is using.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Cokeeke2013 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-secretly-using
I have been practicing the CRAFT method, rewarding nondrinking behavior and disengaging when my husband is drinking, and he is aware that I am doing that and it is making him angry. When I disengage, he brings up things I did and said in the past that were blaming or shaming. I am not defensive, as I was indeed blaming and shaming and I am committed to change. I engage as little as possible.
There definitely has been movement in how he talks about his drinking. He is now willing to say he has crossed a line with his drinking, so I see there is some progress. For a long time, he refused to admit it was a problem and still sometimes says that is just how he is and I must accept it. His goal seems to be to control his drinking.
He quite recently lost his job and sometimes seems to understand that his drinking played a role and at other times acts like it is a gift. I can see that he is struggling. I am working to remain calm and deal with practical realities.
How can one practive positive communication while disengaging? Is that possible?
If I were more technologically inclined I would end this post with an audio of wild applause. You are making the changes in your relationship that are most likely to work. You are cleaning up your end of things, and in the process highlighting and pushing onto your husband what is his responsibility to resolve. You are giving him the chance to see and address the drinking. This is huge.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Hope here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-applying-craft-but-hes-getting-angry
Our son is in jail. He is still addicted and suffering from PTSD.
He possibly can gradually earn more freedom on his way to society. He can spent a few weekends at home. Last year he lost his home. Therefore he asked us to spent this weekends in our house.
This is a dilemma. What is the right thing to do? How to help him? Refusing? Or let him stay these weekends?
He already did spend a couple of months in our house because of homelessness.
It was a difficult time for us because of prolonged heroIn use, sometimes hostile behaviour, avoiding contact. Most of the times he stayed in his room. It was not possible to come to agreements.
Then he went back to his home and his addiction got even worse, escalating into problems with the law and ending in jail.
Frank
I see these weekends as an opportunity for you, the family. He is mandated to your house, and most certainly urine tested. If he uses, he will lose the privilege. So it’s likely you don’t have to worry about drug use. If he does use, you will be quickly off the hook for weekend duty.
I would suggest that you:
watch Learning Modules 4-5-6 prior to his arrival,
hold hands and take a long collective breath, and
make a commitment to not react to him and instead to respond in a CRAFTy way.
The short answer is to apply CRAFT to the weekend like any other situation. At least you aren’t faced with the dilemma of whether or not to ask him to leave….. the period is just too short and his mandate is probably to stay at your house.
You can look upon this as a CRAFT intensive. Review Learning Modules 4-5-6 …it’s about practicing communication and behavioral responses to your son’s behavior.
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full post in response to frankstr here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-home-for-the-weekend-on-furlow
I am new to AIR. I have not yet completed the modules, but I already have a question. My concern is for a 30 year old daughter who lives about 4-5 hours away from me. She has a good job that absorbs a great deal of her energy and attention. She also has a young child. She is currently in the process of trying to split from the child’s father, who recently quit his job to become the child’s primary caretaker. They had been fighting a great deal and it was escalating to violence. They were both heavy drinkers, although the father stopped drinking about 6 months ago (without support).
My daughter knows she needs help, although she tends to focus on underlying depression rather than alcohol as the main problem. I have been aware of her alcohol abuse for several years, but have been unsure of how to approach it. I am hopeful about the CRAFT approach.
Now my question–How do I go about connecting with her when she is not using, and distancing myself when she is? Because of the physical distance, I do not know when she is drinking, and I do not think she is drunk when we do talk. Sometimes she will admit that she is hung over, but she is always very coherent. I really want to see her happy and free, but am not sure how to influence her long distance.
How to be effective when your Loved One is physically far away is a good question. Thanks for writing in.
In the research, CRAFT was designed for family members who have a good deal of contact with their Loved One. You’re right, it is more difficult at a distance. Over the years, Allies in Recovery has learned how to increase the reach CRAFT has across long distances, and our families have had some success in doing so. Here are a couple of ideas.
I wonder who does the calling? Is it both ways? Is your daughter careful not to get on the phone with you when she’s been drinking? Do you know enough about when she drinks to purposefully initiate a call at those times?
Read the rest of Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to mlynch56 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-can-i-influence-her-from-far-away
Question about addiction and boyfriend and girlfriend.
My son recently started dating a girl sober but within a month they both relapsed together. We tried cutting him off from all monetary help hoping he would get help. His girlfriend took over going into debt paying for both of them to live. I feel they are very co dependent on each other. He has always known when it is time to get help and has always gladly gone in. We had him on his way to treatment many times in the 2 months of relapse and he would back out at last moment. By the last week they were getting into all kinds of trouble together, accidents etc. Had he gone in earlier they could have avoided all of that. My concern is that having a girlfriend is the reason he chose to wait so long. He says he loves her and I think he was concerned with leaving her To go get help when she couldn’t. He has finally gone for help and she is somewhere only for 30 days. I fear that he will want to leave when he finds out she is out and alone. No matter how much work he does on himself it will be difficult not to fall back into the same habits together. Does anyone have suggestions for how to make them realize they will have a very difficult road ahead if they stay together. Or share a story of how it has worked. Thanks
Dear Exhausted4now, you have come to the right place. There is a wealth of helpful information in Allies in Recovery! From the blogs, to modules and even the podcast Coming up for Air. If you listen to the episode about Drama, it covers some of these dynamics. https://alliesinrecovery.net/podcasts_index#pc9
The constant upset is stressful, frightening and always tempts us to get pulled in. The thing is, we can’t make anyone realize anything and sometimes the more you try, the less they hear. I personally believe realization happens by planting seeds of truth and hope and then taking care of ourselves. You never know, in a moment when caught up in the madness, one of them might stop in their tracks, remember something said to them and instantly realize this is a life they do not want. It only takes a moment to change direction.
I also found that the more I spoke against a relationship, the more it seemed to have an effect like glue on it. Finally. I started learning and trying new ways of managing my life as it related to my son. When the madness would flare up, I found a calm place for myself and let my son ride it out on his own, always reminding him I was in his corner rooting for him to want a better life. Eventually, he realized he did want it and grabbed onto the offer of treatment and recovery. Relapsing a couple of times at first, but then he found momentum and strength and is working on over 4 years in recovery. I had to realize it may not play out the way I expected and it surely didn’t! But once I started getting healthier in how I handled it, it put all of us on the path to recovering.
You are not alone in it, check out modules in the Learning Center and the blogs as well as the podcast. I may have calmed down a lot earlier had I had Allies in Recovery 10 years ago! There’s hope, take care of yourself in the meantime. ~Annie
My son is in jail. He uses heroin and crack together with his girl friend. Both have a long history (17 years) of addiction and criminal acts. He also suffers PTSD. He probably will be convicted. He has never been in therapy. I hope the judge will force him in a clinical treatment. Is there anybody who can me tell more about how to give the most effective parental help?
Frank
Let’s start by underlining the fact that locking people up for their addiction and the non-violent but illegal behavior that accompanies that addiction is completely unacceptable. Our society, and we may be headed that way again, has tried to jail its way out of the problems of addiction and it simply doesn’t work. It flies in the face of what solid behaviorism suggests: remove rewards when you see use…. With incarceration, you’re often removing rewards months after that use: when the offense finally gets before a judge, the person may already be trying to address their addiction issue….. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to frankstr here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-could-be-better-off-in-jail
Has anyone heard of or used RDD method of rapid detox? An intravenous detox?
Rapid detoxification from a drug involves anesthetizing the person and then injecting a high dose of opiate-blocking drugs. The idea is that the person sleeps through the worst of the withdrawal.
I am not an expert in medical detox and there is little study of this method. My common sense tells me that having your system flushed with opiate blockers, whether you are awake or asleep, will leave you in withdrawal, and withdrawal then takes its inevitable course, the worst of which typically lasts several weeks to a month.
Read the rest of Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to mom101 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-rapid-detox
My loved one hasn’t had a dip or a wish in well over a month. (before I found this program, so I was not prepared at the time.) His drug use seems to be escalating; more frequently and his behavior is more erratic and self destructive as a result. I am concerned for his safety.
In times like this, is it still best to wait for that wish or dip, or is this a situation where a planned discussion is needed?
You are concerned for his safety, you wonder if waiting for a wish or dip is appropriate when the situation seems to be escalating. Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to this question in the following new post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-havent-seen-a-wish-or-a-dip—should-i-wait
I am new here. My son is having addiction issues and my family and his friends are planning to intervene with him tomorrow night. I do not want this to be an accusatory situation with him but more a “how can we help you help yourself” conversation. I would love some guidelines on the CRAFT method and how best to achieve this. I fear he will be defensive immediately upon seeing everyone gather and that it will go poorly from there. :o(
I need help with a very sensitive subject. My partner is an alcoholic and she has been in and out of recovery for a while now. She had a drinking episode last night and ended up getting on a bus to a tough part of town and was assaulted. I am devastated for her. I am devastated for us and just overall so overwhelmed. She is with people from her AA group right now at the hospital and she is in contact with her counselor and doctor. I feel like I am in shock that it even got to this point. I am trying to keep the focus on myself and I just have so many mixed emotions. I wish I could change it, but I can’t. She has to learn it for herself. I am just so scared for our future. I can’t keep going like this. She is great one day and then off the wagon the next. I feel I have been really supportive and I feel bad for her but I also can’t keep up with this chaos. Any words of wisdom would be helpful. I have found this site to be so great, I really appreciate it.
Oh my goodness. I am so sorry. Yes, alcohol is risky, in all the ways we can think of and then in ways like this, that are beyond comprehension. How devastating for both of you.
On the one hand, there is room to talk about the consequences of drug and alcohol use. This is one your partner will now have to live with. I am heartened that she is with supportive people. I hope the hospital can provide some emergency counseling. There is evidence that dealing with a trauma quickly can lessen its long-term impact.
On the other hand, rape can happen to anybody in any state of mind. To rape someone who is weakened by intoxication and vulnerable makes it even more cowardly. Rape is an act of aggression…..
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Veritas19 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-assaulted-while-under-the-influence
Since my son has been sober he basically doesn’t call or get together with me. I am in the process of selling family home and I know it is coming with alot of emotion.But I just want him to communicate with me. I am trying to do everything alone. (my husband passed 4 years ago).
I would love to hear how others cope with this. after I was always trying to be sooo supportive. It hurts.
Thanks peppermint patty
“In my experience, while going through crisis and chaos I was in a constant state of anxiety, hyper-vigilance and on alert twenty-four hours a day. I maintained this state for a lengthy period, so lengthy that it felt like it became of part of who I was. Always in turmoil, so I was always ready to respond or react.”
Read Laurie MacDougall’s full response to peppermintpatty here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-comfort-in-chaos
Help – I need advice
My child has been an addict to heroin and is now on a large dose of methadone (since October). He has been in two sober houses in the last year and has had to leave due to using crack. Still using crack and staying with me.
He has been on probation and went to court recently (he tested positive for fentanol??+++) – they want to give him 2 1/2 years in jail – unless he has a plan: vivitrol, (which he tried and did not agree with him), IOP, counseling/therapy, etc.
He said he doesn’t care if he goes to jail – but just does not want to detox from methadone in jail..
Can you please let me know about detoxing off methadone in jail (medical attention, etc.)? He said that he would be so sick for months, that would consider suicide……..
Help – what if anything should I do????
Your son is right. Jails and prisons across this country, and even in Massachusetts where things can be more progressive, have limited protocols for addressing opioid dependency newly incarcerated inmates. If a person who is dependent on a drug lands in jail, health services are very limited in terms of medical care to help with detoxification. Methadone is probably the worst drug imaginable in this scenario.
Read Dominique’s full response to 123peace here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-what-if-he-has-to-detox-in-jail
Hello- My 21-year-old daughter experienced a relapse last fall (Nov 2016-Jan 2017), in part because, after a year of sobriety and treatment, she moved into her first apartment and got involved with a young heroin addict. He introduced her to crack cocaine and within a short time she was using again, losing her apartment and her job. She returned to our home, got a job, but gradually began hanging out with old high school friends and began drinking and using cocaine again. She tried to enroll in an out-pt program, but couldn’t maintain sobriety. In mid January she initiated another inpatient rehab stay, seeming very positive and determined to stay sober. After a month, she moved into a rooming house near the rehab (three hours away from home) and got a part time job, reconnected with her very mature sponsor and kept a regular AA meeting schedule. She also developed a new romance, against standard recommendations. A few days before her 22 Birthday (last week), my husband had a heart attack (he is now fine). As a result, we did not visit on her bd, but I did drive out to see her the day after, the same day the new guy broke up with her. I can see her phone log and realized that she now is back in touch with the heroin addict and his family, who like her very much. After about a week of knowing this, I confronted her in what I tried to be a positive and supportive, non-judgemental way. I admitted that we saw the phone bill, told her I don’t like checking on her and that I want to have an honest relationship, which is why I came clean. I asked her why she had been in touch with the guy and his family. She became angry and defensive. I told her I loved her very much and said goodbye. That was last night. I am not planning to call her again, hoping she will stay sober and call me. Any suggestions/advice/comments are welcome. Thank you. .
A sustained recovery takes repeated efforts, it’s a process. While knowing this intellectually, it is hard to live by the reality of this statement. Your young daughter is making repeated attempts at getting and staying sober. She is young and this level of effort on the part of someone so young is rare. It may seem like an endless circle but your daughter is continuing to make an effort. I hope you can take some solace in this fact.
Being the family of a person struggling with substance abuse is not a fair fight…. (Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-saw-her-phone-log-and-shes-back-in-touch-with-he)
my son just came home after doing 45 days. was going to do 90 days but didn’t. hes been going to meetings and is still sober. He just hanging out in his man cave which is dreary and is not eating properly once a day if i’m lucky. i keep on him to do more to eat because he says he not feeling good because hes on medicine and not eating. i know im wrong to push him but he just came from a regimented living eviroment to doing nothing. i’m worried and scared but i know im handling this wrong. i want to do whats best for him so he stays successful.
“One would hope that the structure and activities of an inpatient facility would rub off on your son after 45 days, and it has. He is going to meetings and is taking medication. How much change can someone expect to see after a month and a half? Your son isn’t eating correctly and seems stuck in place, just sitting around in his room all day.
This period after treatment is often cause for concern for many families. Getting off drugs and alcohol isn’t sufficient to immediately embrace a new life. It takes time. What replaces those long periods of drug use? Your son has to discover substitutes that provide meaning in his life and that are rewarding. Getting off drugs and alcohol doesn’t miraculously translate into coping skills for life, or to good healthy behaviors, like healthy eating…..”
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-home-and-stays-in-his-man-cave-all-day
My son is living in a halfway house and is in a methadone program. He seems to be doing better, however, he has anxiety and of course constipation which comes along with the opiate?? use.
This past Friday he went to an acupuncturist for addiction, anxiety, constipation and what ever else. Today (Saturday) he called and said he feels that he is having good results from the acupuncture. The first thing he said was that he had a “good bowel movement today” – I just had to chuckle.
Just a thought that perhaps – acupuncture is a good supplemental aid, however, the acupuncturist did say that it is not a cure for addiction – but can help.
The cost was minimal and he feels that it is definitely a good tool.
Methadone, like all opiates, can be terribly constipating. We are not familiar with all the outcomes possible with acupuncture, but if it did relieve your son’s constipation this would certainly be an important finding for him. Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-on-methadone-constipated
Excellent job on the podcast Annie and Laurie !!! I listened to the first and wanted to share how much I enjoined listening to your stories, your strength, and how SUD transformed your lives; miracles do happen in the face of devastation! I had the pleasure to meet and hear Dominique discuss her website at a training for SUD professionals years ago and I’ve been reading and promoting AIR ever since. My name is Shawn, I’ve been the family coordinator at WATC for the past 6 years, and I get to guide families and patients to reunite in recovery and learn to begin again with love and optimism. I so believe that good can come from tragedy and the two of you are outstanding examples of how to detach with love and allow your loved one to find their way through this life-threatening challenge. Loved your podcast, I will recommend it to all as I do AIR … Recovery does happen
Hi recoveryhappens,
It’s great to hear that what we are doing is supportive and helps others. You keep up the good work at WATC as well. It can be difficult for families and loved ones to see any sunshine through the haze caused by the storm of SUD. If there is any topic you would like to see covered let us know, we would love to hear from you!
Hello Recoveryhappens,
Love your user name, recovery DOES happen! Thank you so much for the feedback, Dominique has an amazing team, AiR has helped me so much. I believe we are covering some really good topics on Coming Up For AiR, please keep listening! Some moments are tremendously emotional and some are even funny. What a gift to speak hope to families! Please let us know any topics or suggestions you have. 🙂
Thank you for your note Annie,
I have been recommending your podcast, and AIR, to the families I get to work with each day. It’s such a pleasure to hear you two share how you are surviving and thriving in the face of SUD. I’m so happy that your sons are investing in their recovery, and you and Laurie too. Giving back is so rewarding, so powerful when you’ve been there. I love to hear how others actually see the positives in the challenges. Laurie has my contact information, let’s keep in touch. All the best, recovery happens, so do miracles
We have a rule with our son that he must call us before coming over. He showed up here a couple days ago banging on the outside door and knocking on my kitchen window. I did not answer the door. Some how he got into the building and he just walked in. Calmly I had to remind him that he no longer lives here and cannot just walk in as if you own the place. He had no response for me until he took out something from his pocket. He simply said I wanted to show you this. He had a 24 hour coin. I was surprised and happy. I gave him a hug and told him I was proud of him. He said he’s been to a couple AA meetings. He asked me where a couple of night meetings were and I told him. I’m going to go to them he says. So I figured I’d give him a chance to attend a couple I normally go to and I did not go. Don’t I get a text at 3:30am telling me he didn’t go. I told hubby that I was trying to let him get comfortable going without having to see me. I told hubby I’m just going to attend those meetings I choose to go and let him work on being comfortable whether I am there or not.
I don’t know if there are other parents who attend AA meetings here but I am trying to figure out how to be a supporting mom but yet not get on his butt when I get excuses from him as if he was just another member of AA.
“While helping your Loved One engage with treatment is a critical piece of this program, we suggest you stay out of the specifics of that treatment or self help. There are two reasons for this:
1) Your Loved One needs to determine what works best for him, and to find enough motivation to go.
2)…” Read Dominique’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-in-treatment-its-your-cue-to-step-back
This website was recommended by a Professional that I sit on a Committee with.I’ve been in recovery for over 28 yrs. I have the tools at my fingertips to help myself but I seem to be struggling with having patience and not arguing with my son over his alcohol and drug use.I’m trying to use Tough Love and not be co-dependent but I feel so damn guilty because I cannot help my son.If that makes sense.I just don’t know where to turn next. I thought since I have a good foundation for my sobriety that it can help but its not helping with my son.
“Dear Leanne63:
It’s extremely hard as a parent to watch your child make mistakes, especially dangerous mistakes. You can see it play out, you want to point it out, even scream it out, “watch out, don’t you see what’s going to happen?”
As someone who has managed to stay free from drugs and alcohol you may want to point out the pitfalls and suggest what he should do next. It must be infuriating to watch him take the wrong path, again and again, when you yourself have learned how to overcome a problem with addiction.
It took me years to realize there is more than one way to overcome addiction. Your son can find his way. You can help him to find his way by following the principles we lay out in the learning modules on this site.”
Read Dominique’s full response to Leanne63 here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-sober-so-why-isnt-my-son
Please help me to know if i should do a CHAPTER 35 on my 22 yr old son In my heart i know he is on drugs but feel its not all the time. I am panicking because i cant face that fact. he tells me if he gets saboxin he will be ok he will get off oxys cause he gets sick. i feel like if i have him forced into treatment he will hate me and i am adbandoning him please help me kno what to do what steps do i take i am scared
Dominique Simon-Levine wrote: “Sectioning a Loved One is an option but may not be the first thing to try if your son is willing to be treated, in this case with suboxone. (Click on the topic “suboxone” in the column to the right of this post to learn more about medication-assisted treatment).
I may be wrong, but from the sound of your comment, it appears you’ve only recently learned about the severity of your son’s addiction to opiates. It makes total sense that you are reacting urgently to what is a serious problem……”
To read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to jezabelle, read her new post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-suboxone-vs-section-35—what-do-i-do-about-my-son
Hi Jezabelle,
I can hear the panic in your post. Everyone here understands what you are going through. You are not alone in this, ever. It is important to take care of yourself the best that you can right now. I know that sounds impossible but you are already on the path of healing. It takes a strong person to reach out for help and your post is just that!
You have come to the right place. The CRAFT method taught here at Allies in Recovery helped bring serenity to my life! When I was in crisis mode and did not know where to turn there were a lot of outsiders bombarding me with what they thought I should do and I got a ton of conflicting advice and information. It made it really difficult for me to know what I should and should not do. People would tell me to just take care of myself or to “detach” and I often felt like this was abandoning my son. I felt judged and I believed that if I did not do what others said then everyone would think it was my fault. Everyone kept telling me there was nothing I could do. Once I found Allies in Recovery I realized there are things I can be doing without abandoning him. In fact I could detach, but with love! Detach did not have to mean completely abandoning him. At the same time, I could take care of myself. The more I challenged myself to encourage the good behavior and totally ignore the bad, the more I felt like I was a huge factor in improving my situation. I found that my response to the situation was key to my getting better mentally and that just snowballed into finding methods to take care of myself across the board.
I know that right now you are considering sectioning as a possibility and it may be difficult to think of anything else right, but maybe when you have a free moment watching the videos and practicing might help?
In the mean time, know that you are not alone. You can always come here for help and people that will always listen. We are all in this together.
The person who directed me here mentioned Section 35 to me.I asked her one question,If he chooses to walk out,can he? And her response was yes he can walk out.If my son would be forced to stay in the treatment center,I would definitely go in this direction. I’m to the point,I don’t care if hes angry at me.
Hi, This is my first post. I’m grateful for this resource.
I’m a single woman with a daughter with a dual diagnosis. I’m 73. I have an on-going health condition that seriously restricts my energy, making bed-rest necessary for part of the day, and severely limits the number of activities I can do in a week and the time I can spend on an activity at one go. A lot of my energy has to go into self-care. My financial situation is limited. I attend SMART Family and Friends meetings and find them helpful.
My daughter was born at home, with a mid-wife and we are very deeply bonded. I have been a single parent from the very beginning.
After living out of state, she now lives a five minute drive from me.
My daughter is 38 and has a problem with alcohol addiction, depression, anxiety, and, I think neuro-cognitive issues.
She began drinking when she was in High School. In about the past three years, she’s been through two cycles of out patient treatment. ( Arbour care in Woburn MA) The last ended about six months ago.Her financial resources are limited. She has health insurance through Mass Health.
In about the last three years, she’s been fired from three jobs for making too many mistakes at the computer. She says “My mind thinks one thing and my hand does something different.” Her last job was high-end wait-staff/bartender/manager-in-training. Also, in about the last three years, she’s totaled three cars. She was not under the influence at the time. I can know that for sure because the police were involved. (She’s had previous DUI’s, lost and regained her license.) The problem seems to be attention.
Also, she’s repeatedly had terrible fights with, broken up with and then gotten back together with the same boyfriend.
I think she’s in counseling, but I’m not sure. I think she drinks off and on, but I’m not sure of her pattern.
I see her as at a crossroads. and as having to do something different. She wants to get another job and another car. I can’t support her in this plan. I feel I don’t have anything else concrete to offer her.
I’m going to stop here, even though I have more to say, because I’m afraid that by some mistake or glitch, this will get deleted before I send it.
Thank you for reading this. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Alicia
It is hard to appreciate—from the outside—the kind of worry and frustration involved in having an adult daughter struggling with addiction. At your age, and with your own health concerns, your situation saddens me. It is taking vital energy away from your own life and health. I’m glad to hear you speak of the importance of self-care and family support through SMART recovery.
……To read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to Alicia, see her post on the Discussion Blog: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-air-can-help-you-to-shift-the-balance
My adult son is about to be discharged from the hospital after a very extreme ICU detox. He initiated the detox himself, after admitting that he was, indeed, out of control and needed to make this change. Unfortunately, he refused help until it was too late, insisting on a cold turkey approach, and ultimately landed in the ICU & vented for 2 weeks. He is interested in residential treatment for his addiction for a few weeks, a month or whatever. However, the discharge planners are telling us that his insurance (Fallon Mass Health Managed Care) will not cover residential treatment, only outpatient. I am shocked and incredulous! To your knowledge, could this possibly be true? I will, of course, call his insurance company on Monday, but sitting helplessly here on a Saturday night…I just wanted to reach out to SOMEONE for information & guidance. I feel like this is such a vulnerable time for him and that he needs all the support, education & help he can possibly get. This has been his second lengthy hospitalization in six months related to his addiction and it seems like it would be money well spent from the perspective of his insurance company if it could help prevent a repeat. Thank you.
I am so sorry to hear about your son. How frightening. There are two drugs that are particularly dangerous to detoxify from: alcohol and benzodiazepines. You must have medical support to stop these. Other drugs can also be dangerous in some circumstances. It is best to call a detox program to be sure.
Insurance companies will typically pay for less intensive, less costly treatments first, like an intensive outpatient program. Only be failing from these can you build a case for more intensive levels of care like residential treatment.
I realize how crazy this sounds given where you are tonight. A couple things to try:
Tomorrow morning call: Substance Abuse Information and HELPLINE: 800.327.5050 (M – F 8 AM – 10 PM; SAT/SUN 9 AM – 5 PM). They can explain Crisis Stabilization Services and Transitional Support Services and they can check bed availability. These are publicly funded inpatient programs.
I would also contact a couple solid inpatient programs in the state and ask their opinion. A good program goes to bat for their patients with insurance companies. I don’t know all the specifics about your son, but you need the opinion and the experience of a local treatment program that knows this insurer.
Also, keep in mind that, while studies are not exhaustive, the findings suggest that inpatient and outpatient treatment work about equally well. Your son could walk out of the hospital, go into an intensive outpatient program, see a good therapist, attend some kind of self-help, and find a sober living situation. He would do as well with these community supports as in a residential program. The key is the home life in my opinion. Community treatments are much harder to keep up with if the home isn’t available or isn’t safe from alcohol or drugs.
I realize that being back in the community may sound risky right now, and you and your son likely want the protection of an immediate, safe, therapeutic environment. If that does turn out to be impossible, you’ll need to consider the community alternatives.
I hope your situation has improved since you wrote this.This may help you.My son’s Pastor through The Salvation Army church, has recently told me that they have a free 6 month program.I didn’t ask questions because it would have been up to my son to get the information.He did tell me they had programs in Worcester,Mass and Springfield,Mass. I do not know if you need to be a member of their church but it may be worth looking into. It’s just a thought.
today is our son’s 24 birthday, last night I did not sleep at all, realizing that he has been using pot for half his life. he is in community college now and doing well. we are paying for an apartment, but trying hard to not pay for anything else, which is hard as he has a car and he needs it to get to school.
he is pleasant and loving and very respectful in that we never see him high. he does not do other drugs or abuse alcohol. he does smoke cigarettes. he has not been able to hold a job, he gets them and then they peter out after a few weeks. so he is totally broke all the time. he gets odd jobs and spends him money on “his weed” and cigarettes. and food and gas as well. he has bills piling up and is very stressed by this. he has a few friends whom he gets high with and no girlfriend for the past 3 years. he also got DUI for pot smoking as he told the officer that he was “really stoned”.
we have a really good relationship and he loves to talk to me and tell me what is going on as I have been nonjudgmental and just listen. but this past weekend, at his grandparents’ for Christmas, he was out of cigarettes and started talking about how much he needed a cigarette and I lost it and got upset for the first time in years. he felt terrible and said he hated being that guy who got me so upset. then he said. “why do I have an addictive personality?” he goes to therapy once and then stops. he does not want to stop smoking pot. he knows how it zaps his motivation and he is so full of rationalization. but mostly he says, ‘life is short’ and ‘I like it.’
I don’t know how worried to be and whether we should be doing something different. all we are doing is paying for school and rent. I am worried about hurting our good and loving relationship. but I am thinking that maybe I need to stop worrying about that and have school and rent come with more requirements. any thoughts would be appreciated. also, he does not smoke every day. he just spent 5 days with the family, weed and cigarette free. I was home working, worrying and not sleeping. they all had a great time. he cross country skied with his sisters and played chess with his grandfather. I am the one who is a wreck and wonder if I am overreacting. thanks!!!
Marijuana use can be difficult to categorize. The drug appears less harmful than alcohol and has fewer withdrawal symptoms. It is still, however, a powerful drug, made ever more so in its current manifestation. THC levels in the drug (the active chemical in cannabis) can be as low as 10-15% (more common in the drug of our youth) and as high as 80-90%. Experts describe the pot of today as a completely different drug.
If I had to characterize pot users in one sentence I would describe them as observers of their own life. This passivity cripples ambition and motivation.
Your relationship with your son is unusually strong. That he shares with you and that you listen without judgment is the bridge we talk about building between family and Loved One. With this connection, your Loved One will come to you when it hurts.
…..Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-been-smoking-pot-half-his-young-life
My daughter has been in recovery, on methadone for almost 2 years – in and out of treatment for 10 years. Still not seeing much improvement. Not completely sure if she’s going to the program. Along with other family members I am concerned about her behavior. Her program can’t give me any information because of confidentiality. She has a child that I need to know is OK. Any ideas on how to approach this or get help?
Trying to talk to her puts her into a screaming and yelling state. Then she won’t let me see my grandchild.
I just this week spoke to a father I have stayed in touch with for over three years. Year one was spent helping him apply CRAFT strategies in response to brief periods of sobriety followed by horrendous relapses. After about a year of this, the young man followed through on a program’s suggestion he go live in a three-quarter sober house, and his active substance use almost entirely stopped. But, his behavior was still concerning. It was as though the young man was frozen in place, unable to keep a job, he was sluggish in his demeanor, we wondered if he was depressed. He was clearly scared of the world while also feeling quite entitled, like no job or situation was good enough. His parents were relieved by the sobriety but still upset and worried about their son’s future.
I heard from the father this week. He told me their son was now on a much better course…..
Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to mbir here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-even-after-the-addiction-is-resolved-you-may-need
A question about safety and about the ability of people to go through with this program.
I can see the reasonableness of this program. However, I am not the principal person in contact with my alcoholic brother. My elderly parents (mother nearly 90, with impaired mobility, and my dad nearly 95 and losing his memory) have taken in my alcoholic brother. He has been living there for 18 months. My parents took him in with the understanding that he would not drink when residing at their house and that there would be no smoking inside the house. Just the other night, he got drunk and set fire to his bedroom.
As a daughter, my principal concern is for the safety of my parents.
Even after the fire, my parents are unwilling to turn him out of the house. They also brought up treatment, at a particular facility, which he refused.
I would like to share these videos–chiefly the last module–with my parents, since the entire set of modules may be too much for them. However, my concern is for their safety. Since most of the talk of safety is about the potential for violence from the loved one, I’m not sure how to present the emphasis on safety from these videos to them.
Any guidance on whether or not my parents (and, due to some memory loss on my father’s part, really my mother would have to do all the work at a time she is rather busy looking after my father) could benefit from these videos at all or is this just too much for them to try to take on.
Also: when it comes to their safety, I am concerned not about violence, but instead about two people with hearing loss, impaired mobility, and impaired cognition continuing to reside with someone who has demonstrated that their substance abuse can lead to a house fire.
Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Your reach is mostly limited to your own actions and words, when it comes to your Loved One. What others say and do, often well intentioned, is largely outside your influence. How infuriating it is when you work hard to adhere to the basic principles set out on this site, just to watch your Loved One get enabled by someone else. … Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-got-drunk-and-set-fire-to-his-bedroom
Things came to a head in my house this morning. I feared for both my life and my son’s. My oldest one with paranoid schizophrenia went into such a rage that as much as I did not want to do it I had to get the police involved. He accused my middle son of stealing his suboxone and no matter what I said or did I could not get him to calm down. I honestly don’t think that the suboxone were stolen. He got so violent and attacked both my son and myself. When I tied to call 911 he grabbed the phone and my pocketbook with my phone in it and would not let me call. I finally just told him to give me my pocketbook and I was going to leave. He did that and when I got in the car I called crisis and they eventually connected me with the police. I met with them and they went to the house and brought him to the ER. It was such an emotional event. It wasn’t even the active drug abuser that was the problem. Going forward though there is not way that the 2 can stay in the same house as me. I really want the addict out. He does not seem to want to get clean. I don’t want drugs here. I need him out. I need help in how to do this. I feel like I am so alone. I reached out to my family this morning and have not heard from them since. It is like I have the plague when it comes to them. I was given a domestic abuse support number to call and I did, had to leave a message and never got a call back. That was 2 days ago. To go to counseling myself I have a sixty dollar copay each session, that gets so expensive. I’m not sure where to turn anymore.
It’s time for him to go! Read Dominique’s response to your concerns in her new post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-its-time-for-him-to-go
Thank you for responding. I did read module 2 even before you said to. I left the house for a time last night. I did not stay away for the night but left again during the day today. I have to do this for my own sanity. I told the son that is using that he needs to stay away from here and get himself into a rehab. I packed a bag for him and left both his bike and the backpack on the back deck. I did notice that after it got dark the backpack was gone but not the bike. He denies stealing anything and said that he is being punished for something he didn’t do. I told him that I should have done this a long time ago and that he isn’t being punished but that I am trying to help him. I told him that I loved him and said good luck. The oldest apologized for what he did, but it doesn’t fix the broken doors and holes in the walls. I am so tired of this.
I am scared. I came home from work today and I walked in the house and felt immediate tension. I never know what to expect. My middle son is the one still using and by his behavior I could tell he used today. I got so angry because he had just finished telling the suboxone clinic the other day that he was really going to try. But his behavior I at least understand. But, my oldest one that is not using flipped out. He has not used drugs for over 5 years, but he is a diagnosed schizophrenic and he reads u-tube with every minute he has to spare when not working or going to school. I asked him how his day was and if the cats were fed and he started yelling at me about how bad the earth is and that I should have bought a geiger counter by now to measure the radiation that is in the air so that we can go live in the cellar if there is too much. I asked him what we were going to do if there is radiation and he said get away from it. I asked him where we would go and he went crazy. I was petrified of him. He goes to a psychiatrist and I think his mess need to be adjusted, but I don’t know who to call to tell them. He is 32 years old so I have no charge over him. He goes in and out of a rage and most of the time it is because of things that he reads in u-tube. He is so influenced by that. Within the last 30 minutes he went from a rage of yelling and breaking things up to saying thank you for dinner and saying how wonderful it is. I have been dealing with mental illness, alcoholism and addiction for at least 20 years now and I have had it. When is God going to say I have had enough. I try to work the AIR program, but I am so alone here and scared that it is difficult. I just wish so bad there was just someone to call and talk to when an incident like tonight happens. I have called the crisis hot line and I usually just get these young people that seem to only be able to say call the police. They offer no other suggestions. I am sick of police. I think I would rather die than deal with police anymore, especially in my town. I have been doing the modules, but when you are in the middle of a crisis it is hard to stay calm. But I have to admit that I did stay calm tonight and try to talk to him very quietly, but he just would turn and scream at me. When is this going to end?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me, this is beyond a simple fix. I am so scared. I am so afraid that one of my sons will end up dead here or even possibly me. The drug addict keeps stealing from his brother and his brother is getting so violent towards him. I am so scared. The drug addict left the house this morning after his brother attacked him because he stole some of his suboxone. I do not want the one on drugs back here. The one using his suboxone properly should not have his suboxone stolen so that the other one can just steal it to sell and buy heroin. I really fear for someone’s life. I am so confused and don’t know what to do. Why can’t things just get a little better. If someone came into my house they would thing that a war went on in here. Holes in the walls, all the inner doors off the hinges and broken. I don’t want to replace things because I am afraid thing will just get broken. Help me please. I want to get rid of the drug addict without involving the police anymore.
Dear mllb2t,
Dominique Simon-Levine will respond to you as soon as she is able. In the meantime, everything in your email is pointing towards the fact that you (and your family) are in crisis mode right now.
I wish I could swoop in and bring each of you to a safe and better place. But right now, you may need to make some – unusual – decisions with the primary objective of GETTING YOURSELF TO A SAFE PLACE.
If you can, spend 15 minutes watching Module 2 on Staying Safe. This is not theory — these are concrete, practical suggestions for removing yourself from perilous and/or violent situations.
You may not be able to find an immediate solution to guarantee safety for each of your sons, but this may be where you need to accept letting natural consequences occur. They are both adults, and you can not make them act differently than they are at this moment.
On the other hand, your removing yourself from this situation will preserve your safety and sanity, and may actually serve as a shock for them both. Perhaps something that will make them think twice.
Please consider your next moves and where you can go, who you can call, to get yourself out of immediate danger.
– Isabel
My partner refuses to acknowledge there is a problem, even though he has been arrested for DUI and has been written up at work for intoxication. I know you encourage me to allow natural consequences to happen, but I fear if he loses his job things will only get worse. Can you recommend a strategy for getting him to open up about his problem?
“When pressed, people with addiction issues 1) defend their right to drink or drug or 2) deny there is a problem. In short, they Defend or Deny.
I can assure you, however, that somewhere in the recesses of their mind is a belief that a problem does exist. It may be intermittent and it may not take in the severity of the problem, but it’s there….”
Read the rest of Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to palm springs co here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-gotten-in-trouble-but-still-wont-admit-theres
How do we handle our son’s marijuana addiction? our world turned upside down in the spring when he ended up in the psych ward with an acute manic episode b/c he was “dabbing” and snorting extended release Ritalin & Adderall in order to catch up on his school work b/c he was not going to classes. He had to take a medical leave of absence from college. He has pretended, and at times may have been slightly on board with quitting, but has recently admitted that he does not intend to stop and wants to smoke everyday. We ave 3 other (younger) children and it’s just a nightmare! He does not get violent or even yell, but we feel he can not live here if he continues smoking. We are able to have good conversations that seem to be getting through, but the fact is, he just does not want to stop. He was able to transfer and get into the Engineering School at UMASS Amherst and is commuting and doing well in his classes. He does care about school, and that is awesome, but it does not trump everything else and make us turn a blind eye to his using. Any decrease in his use has been b/c he is living at home. He has actually does 1-2 weeks several times this summer, but only b/c he had to. ex. we told him he had to test clean or we wouldn’t pay for college. So he passed the urine test, and smoked his 1st day at school. We don’t want him living here and using (he does try to hide it, but I have become very astute at knowing when he is high), but we are also gripped in fear with the knowing that he will certainly go back to smoking multiple times a day again and have some MORE serious consequences. We have been dealing with this for 4 years (although we didn’t know the severity of his addiction until this spring) and feel we have tried it all. Now we found CRAFT, and it is giving us hope. We are struggling with where to draw the line. I feel like we are just letting him live in comfort while he continues to use. We need to take care of ourselves and our other children. Any and all advice is GREATLY appreciated! I would also love to get some recommendations for a therapist for my husband and I, and for our son. My son doesn’t think he needs therapy, but is willing to go. He did go to a therapist after his hospitalizations, but it was not very helpful and more of a “check in” session. Luckily, we do have a good, loving relationship with him and our entire extended family is supportive. Thank You!
“It can be hard to grasp that marijuana, as a drug of abuse, has serious consequences, as your comment suggests. For your son it threatens his family relationship, his home, and support for his education. For you and your family it creates fear of more serious problems to come….” Read Dominique Simon-Levine’s full response to your comment here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-serious-about-school-but-doesnt-want-to-stop-s
I have been reading and hearing more and more about Ibogaine. It is illegal in the US, however, there are clinics in Canada and Mexico. The success rate for overcoming addiction is high (however there are risks). Addicts have stated that after 4 days they were back to normal – really normal.
Whatever reason the US has for not permitting – should be looked at twice. It seems that because of the success rate – it is definitely worth trying and a much easier and quicker way to eliminate addiction.
Ibogaine & Baclofen – magic pills for addiction? Dominique Simon-Levine has addressed your questions about these MAT drugs. Read her new post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-ibogaine-baclofen—a-magic-pill-for-addiction
We have a family member in a 30-day treatment facility now. We have questions about how we should treat him when he returns. Is there a section to help us? We don’t want to be walking on egg shells when he returns.
Wonderful news that your Loved One is in treatment! He or she will soon be heading home and in early recovery. Here are some posts which address a Loved One being home and in recovery…
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-the-roll-up-your-sleeves-guide-to-assisting-in-rec
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-charge-rent-to-my-son-in-recovery
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-shes-headed-home-now-what
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-using-home-as-a-reward
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-please-dont-come-home
I’m in complete distress. Last week and loved one took some of my money and got high, out of his mind. After that, they were clean for a week. Once payday came, they took even more money and took off. Haven’t heard from them in 3 days. They never just left, with no contact. I don’t know what to do
Your Loved One is stealing and disappearing … you don’t know what to do … Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your comment in the following post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-now-theyre-stealing-and-disappearing
I have a question about my own use of alcohol. My husband uses daily, almost always to excess and where I don’t see him. At an earlier point in our lives, I drank wine at home and drank with him at bars regularly. I stopped that about six or seven years ago, as it felt depressing. I also figured that I might as well stop as I knew I wouldn’t want to drink around him if he were to stop drinking.
It was a good thing, as I realized I really didn’t want to drink habitually. From time to time, I want to have a drink or two with him, at restaurants, and I also bought a bottle of wine and a six-pack when guests were coming to dinner. I feel generally satisfied about my own drinking, with a few exceptions over the last six or so years.
He quit drinking for a few weeks earlier this year, and I abstained completely and would do so if he were to quit drinking. Does it matter if I drink around him occasionally when he is drinking? Is there any research around this?
Part of me thinks that fact i am asking means that I should just not drink, but I also think that it is a little bit of magical thinking, that if I just don’t drink, he also will stop. Thanks for any insight you can share.
Should you abstain from alcohol if your Loved One is an alcoholic? To see Dominique’s response to this question, read her latest post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-abstain-completely-when-my-loved-one-is-a
Is section 35 a good option? My son-in-law is addicted to alcohol and cocaine. He also has ADHD and bi-polar. His doctors are trying to regulate his meds but he is still using. He has threatened suicide. To make his wife feel sorry for him. He also has a two week old baby. I am nervous for my daughter and grandchild.
Regarding the viability of Section 35 for your son-in-law, Dominique Simon-Levine has written a response to your comment: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-look-into-section-35-but-keep-learning-craft
Hello Dominique
I have written to you before in an email. My situation is kind of odd because I never actually witness my husband using. We drink alcohol and smoke marijuana. But he more so than I. As I can go without it. I feel he uses those substances as sustainer until he can get the harder stuff. Which I believe to be crack cocaine. However his behaviors over the years have pointed to that with unexplained use of large amount of money and loss of time. I was always confused with it with affairs with other women. But after careful review with an older friend who has had past relationships with users it seems as if that is indeed the issue . He is really good at hiding it by disappearing usually over night. And when he get his hands on large amounts of cash he leaves for a few days a time.
I have been reviewing the modules but not quite sure how to implement rewards and remove rewards as he never admits to use and usually returns when he is sober. Please advise what action can I take. He has tried saying he will start coming home on nights he go out which is at least half the week or more at times.
Vocalist72, Dominique Simon-Levine has addressed your concerns regarding your husband’s possible crack cocaine problem, in the following post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-comes-home-sober-how-do-i-use-rewards
Thank you for this website. I am having trouble with how to act when when my son (age 21) is using vs not using. He is pretty much continuously under the influence of something (pot, Kratom, nicotine, or enormous amounts of caffeine– all of which he uses throughout the day). When he first gets up is the only window of non-use, but he is generally very agitated and often verbally abusive, probably due to being in a state of withdrawal. I can’t reward or praise him at these times.
So glad to hear you are finding the website helpful! See Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your excellent question here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-from-kratom-to-pot-hes-always-on-something
After almost 15 years of going through living with a drug addict I am giving up on my middle son. I believe he is beyond hope. Just when I think things can’t get any worse or he can’t do anything more to hurt the family he does one more thing. His sense of entitlement is beyond belief and living with him I find it hard to believe that drug addiction is a disease. I recently had total knee surgery and as much as I tried to hide the pain medication and carry it with me at all times he stole half of it. How can one feel for a person like this and how can I even call him my son or have any love for him? I feel terrible saying this, but he is not the son that I raised at an earlier age. The son that was so brilliant that he wanted to become a vet. Now all he can boast is that he is a drug addict and a theif. He not only steals from me but he also steals from his brother. He blames me for everything in his life. I have given up my life and spent it trying to help him. I want to live and enjoy the rest of my life. When I thought I was safe because I had no more pain med he stole gabapentin from me. He knows how bad a neuropathy I got from the surgery because he saw me in tears many a morning before it was prescribed to me and he just steals it. I have lost it so much with him lately screaming at him, hitting him and even spitting at him once. I know this is not the proper behavior and I just beat myself up after I do it. He has no remorse, calls me names and says that I never gave him anything but that I still give my daughter everything. She has a good job and pays for everything herself. If we do anything together we split the bill. I am so tired of crying, I am so tired of fighting and living like this. I am at the end of my rope. I have given up.
How you have held up through the alcoholism of your husband, and the drug addiction of both your sons is beyond comprehension. For those of us who struggle with the substance problems of a loved one, imagine what it would be like to have three in the family……. Read the full response from Dominique Simon-Levine here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-m-so-tired-of-fighting-and-living-like-this
This is a great resource, and helpful. One thing I would like to see are resources for family members who want individual support. Are there counselors out there who are familiar with this approach? I don’t find it helpful when someone I am consulting tells me to just turn my back on my son. I would like to have a resource for myself, someone who can listen and advise, with an up to date understanding of addiction, CRAFT etc.
Hi Ava, good question! See Dominique Simon-Levine’s response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-id-like-to-work-one-on-one-with-a-craft-counselor
This was extremely helpful and eye-opening how to use the site and behaviors I need to change.
Thank you
How do I find a recovery specialist for a 19 year old who has completed a rehab program and is returning to college in ny
Hello: Are you looking for someone to coach him through early sobriety — they are called recovery coaches. These are lay people, often with lived experience, that have been trained to coach? Or are you interested in therapeutic treatment that is outpatient and a step down from an inpatient rehab?
We are looking for a recovery coach – My son is finishing a program that included in inpatient wilderness program for 6 weeks and an intensive outpatient program that included living in a sober house for 4 additional months. He is attending aa and na meetings in the sober house. We want to find someone back in NY to assist him now and as he returns to college in ny.
I’ve put out a request for the name of someone who we can ask. I will reply offline. Dominique
Hi! I have been married for 23 years and with my husband for almost 30 years. He is addicted to meth and pills. A little over a year ago, I left our home hoping that he would stop using meth and gambling. Since then, he has told me how he has changed. When it is just him and I, I can see the change (he is not using) but after a couple of days, he goes back to his house that he and his girlfriend share. She provides him with meth and now pills. She is also an abuser and an alcoholic. They have violent encounters with each other which has never happened in our relationship. He says he wants to work on our marriage (I know addicts lie) and work out his relationship with his children. Since our last time we spent together, she has began to seclude him from his family and all friends. The only contact he has is with her family and friends (all users).
After watching the videos yesterday, I have realized that the way I handled his use was all wrong. I blamed him for everything not realizing that it is a disease/illness. I have been looking back through our relationship and now can see the signs of when the use started (always after something traumatic). I don’t hold any hard feelings against this other woman because I am the one who left him instead of trying to understand the situation. I am praying that the more he and I talk he will see that she is not with him for him. Thanks for listening to our background.
Now for the question…When I met my husband back in high school, he smoked marijuana and still continues to today. In the beginning, it was strictly for pleasure. After being electrocuted by an underground cable at work and being unable to work due to injury and pain, he began to smoke marijuana to relieve his pain. Pain medication just made him sleep for days and no real life. Smoking marijuana allows him to function and live with a little less pain.
So my question is…in the video, it talks about moderation. If my husband were able to quit doing meth and pills would it be wrong for him to smoke marijuana? I really don’t have a problem with the marijuana because it does not change who he is but if he continues to smoke marijuana will that just tempt him more to do meth? At this time, I don’t think that I can get him into rehab, but I am going to use the strategies in the videos to try to get him to moderate and show him that I am there for support and that I understand. A lot of my problem was my beliefs but when I take the time to understand and to think I can see what is causing the addiction. Thank you for any advice and for listening.
Compassion for the person struggling with addiction is important, AND hard to keep up. Our approach is based on behaviorism and communication skill training, when put together so much more effective on your Loved One and less exhausting on you. I am glad you found us and I hope we provide you a way forward. You’ve asked an excellent question … one that is hard to easily answer.
Polyusers are individuals who use more than one drug/alcohol. It is extremely common. Your husband found pain relief with the marijuana and uses it regularly. It’s the methamphetamine, the pills, and the gambling that are clear problems for him and for you, and the reason you left your husband a year ago.
It is probably safe to say that both you and your husband would be happy to have him just smoking pot. If your husband succeeded in stopping all other drugs and gambling, he might actually find that the pot use would go up. It would depend on what he is doing to cope with his life and his cravings for the other drugs and the gambling. Is he getting solid therapeutic help? Recovery help? If not, he might fill the void for those other addictions by smoking much more pot.
Or, the high from the pot may not totally satisfy your husband, when compared to the highs he reached with the other drugs and this could cause him frustration. If he’s already smoking pot, a drug, it is easier to justify taking it up a notch to another drug: the methamphetamine or an opiated pill, as opposed to being drug-free and justifying ruining that run of drug-free time.
Bottom line: if the pot is the moderation drug, and he is working on moderating it (hopefully with some good professional help), he would learn whether he can succeed at moderation.
Not sure how helpful this is in the abstract.
What you want to look for now is whether your husband is taking responsibility for the drug use and doing whatever he needs to stop using the big three: methamphetamine, pills, and gambling. I would agree with you that for now, let the pot alone. If and when he is just smoking pot, he can try moderation to see if he can succeed with it.
You’re in an interesting spot. You’ve removed yourself from your husband by moving out, and when you do see him, he refrains from using the hard drugs. It could be said you are rewarding his non-using behavior by spending time with him (leaving the pot out of the equation for now, which I suggest you do, by ignoring it). This is one of the main points in Module 5.
The question is whether you as a reward, your home, and your kids, are enough to motivate him to want more by addressing the drug use. He has a strong pull going the other way with a woman and drugs at-the-ready. That all sounds very turbulent. He says he is interested in returning to the marriage. It’s going to be important to maintain the boundary of your life together as drug free.
Treatment is still the best answer we have for addiction. This blog post: the “roll up your sleeves” guide to assisting in recovery gives you a brief introduction to the work on this site, which includes an intervention to engage your husband intro treatment. The work isn’t for everyone. You’ll need to look at making some changes too, in your communication and perhaps in your behavior, especially in terms of holding the drug-free line. If he uses while with you, you’ll want to pull back, remove rewards, and allow natural consequences (Module 6).
What will be hard is how those consequences may also affect you. You’ll have to ask your husband to leave perhaps, or you’ll need to suspend your ideas of a time line for when you get back into your marriage. You’ll want to get really centered in your own life and watch your expectations.
With the AiR approach, we help you move your Loved One towards recovery. The suggestions on this site are carefully made to do just that. I wish you all the best. Please check in and let us know how it is going.
Dominique
Hi my husband seems to suffering with addiction to crack cocaine. I have never seen him do it but he is very good at hiding his use. I have had experience with my oldest daughter’s dad who had the same addiction. However my husband hides his use and drinks and smokes marijuana around me only. When I think he used crack he goes missing. Sometimes for days and sometimes just for the night. We have lost thousand of dollars to his using which he always claimed to be used for something else that is not tangible. I don’t exactly know how long he has had this addiction. But at first I thought he was just having multiple affairs. I can’t trust anything he says or promises. The last time he went missing and wanted to come home he finally admitted he had a problem and needed to seek counsel. However he did not admit to the addiction. He claims he has anger issues and something mental going on that needs to be addressed. I think he suffers with some kind of anxiety as he claims his mind races and too many thoughts when he doesn’t smoke or drink.
He came home Friday but was too late to call counsel for therapy. He still stayed out Friday and Saturday night. Stayed home Sunday for Father’s Day and agreed to work with me Monday as we normally work together when he is around. But he made up a story in the morning that he needed to help a friend bring back a rental car and I was to come get him 2 hours. It never happened and it is now Tuesday. I want to tell him he can’t come home until he gets help. I think it is time. But all my responses up till now have met him with anger and frustration. I just found this site recently when seeking help for him. I have been to therapy in past for his behaviors and will be starting back up on Thursday. Please advise on what I should do. Thanks.
Dear Vocalist72 ,
Thank you for sharing your story. Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your comment in a new blog post. Read it here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-hiding-a-crack-habit
Hi, I wrote before this regarding my nephew and sister who are both on something or other. About a month ago, they were both rushed to the hospital and were actually in at the same time, my sister, for respiratory issues…when i went to check on my nephew at home, i saw needles and booze all over his room…i told him he either goes into tx, or i go to court…Naturally he didn’t want to do either, so i went down and had him sectioned. They saw he was very sick with fever and blood poisoning and sent him immediately to the hospital. I guess it was r/t blood poisoning from needles…He almost died!! When he got out, they wanted him back and court to finish the sectioning and was sent to Highpoint Brockton…At the end of that time, he had choices and to go on to further recovery…Like all the other times, in spite of her claims to refuse his calls etc, she let him come home!!! That upset me so much! Now he’s back, still taking drugs and has NO LIFE whatso ever…I refuse to talk with her or get involved with her craziness anymore. I got so mad on the phone yesterday and told her that she is killing her son …I know I should have butt out, but it gets me so mad that she’s so indifferent to his situation!! They BOTH seriously need help. A nurse is coming in daily for my sister, since she’s elderly and giving her her meds so she can’t over use them, since she forgets. I am so distressed over this whole situation. HE ALMOST DIED, and she would have never even known! This boy was a normal little kid, but his parents screwed him up totally to the point he just does not care. She had the NERVE to ask me to help her AGAIN to section him! So typical of her…So selfish! I told her this time, she has to do all the work herself!! I’m at a huge loss right now. I am so sad and downtrodden. This beautiful child ruined by their selfishness and addictions, which they never sought help for….Just needed to vent, since I am sick to my stomach about this situation. It will only get worse. I feel so burdened, because my whole life was caretaking either my parents or both…and now that they’re gone, it’s my sister and nephew…I’m too old for this!! I can’t take it anymore!! Please offer some advice because watching him die, is more than I can bear!
Dear Christy, Thank you for the update on your sister and nephew. Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your concerns in a new blog post. You can read it here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-had-him-sectioned-but-hes-home-using-again
This is a wonderful site and I will be utilizing it a lot to share my wisdom to others who are struggling with a loved one.
Sincerely
allaboutrecovery
Dear allaboutrecovery,
We’re thrilled that you’re finding helpful materials/tools on AiR. Part of Allies in Recovery’s website is the community element, so of course we encourage members to share their experiences and reach out to others.
May we simply ask that you be mindful, when you “share your wisdom” that what works for one person is not necessarily going to be the solution for another person. In your other recent comments you have spoken of how powerful God has been for you on your journey.
At AiR we completely respect each person’s personal and spiritual leanings. Faith, and spiritual practice, can indeed be an integral part of taking care of oneself and finding hope. We see God – or spirituality – as ONE avenue that can bring great peace and relief, but not the ONLY avenue.
We ask that members ALWAYS abstain from giving advice, as tempting as it is, to other members. The greatest gift we can give our peers going through difficult times is reflective listening, and support. Thank you for your understanding, and welcome to this site!
Though I can’t claim I used the principles discussed throughout this site as well as I could or should have, my son did elect to enter a residential treatment program. That brings up a whole new set of questions regarding supporting versus enabling after he is out. To what extent should we go to set him up for success, perhaps rewards for completing the program? His counselor talks about “ropes” he should hang onto versus those he should let go of. Would it be beneficial to take some of those “ropes” from him? For example, his car needs some repairs, would it be helpful to him to fix the car before he is out so he does not have to worry about that, or have that “rope” to hang onto? If he is committed to seeing a counselor after, is paying for the counselor helping or enabling? How much should we just let him figure it out on his own and how far should we go to discourage behaviors that are detrimental and reward behaviors that promote his recovery?
Dear All4All,
Thank you for writing in about supporting vs. enabling after treatment. Please read Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your comment: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-when-he-gets-out-of-treatment-how-much-should-i-he
I had to recently Section 35 my son for the 2nd time since February. The first Rehab, Brockton Men’s Recovery didn’t go well at all and seem to do nothing for him. This time he has been committed to Bridgewater rehab. Does anyone have experience with this facility? Was the care good? How long did they keep your loved one? Did your loved one find the program helpful?
I have a 17 year old high school Junior who will turn 18 in July. We have been battling failing grades, running away, fits of rage and the increased use of pot and alcohol over the last 16 months. We worked with a mediator weekly from September through February to get through the thick of the anger and complete breakdown of communication. Until my son started showing up high or not showing up at all.
I cannot make him do anything. I cannot make him go to a therapist. I cannot muscle him into doing his homework, or being respectful.
Things are bad. I am at a crossroads. Do I just let him fail? Let the natural consequences happen?
My intuitive approach to him is kind, compassionate and empathetic. This has not brought about any change. In the moment it make me feel better about my approach but ultimately leaves me feeling powerless and walked on.
After a year of working with my own therapist and a recent huge physical shoving match over taking away his phone privilege and driving privilege because he wasn’t doing his work…we have decided that “confronting” (can’t think of the right word) him about his drug use and how it is affecting our family needs to happen and we need to make a plan for him to get some help so that he gets off the pot and passes his junior year..
I am at the point where I have lost my son and I think he needs to go into a drug treatment program. I have been told that treatment programs don’t take kids who only smoke pot.I don’t know where to start and don’t know if I still have any power over a kid who will be 18 in 10 weeks.
I am going back to watch all the videos again. But I had to reach out. Thanks.
Dear Liberty,
Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your comment in the following blog post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hes-almost-18-i-cant-force-him-to-get-help
dear Dominique, I’m new to this site and we are in crisis. We’ve been dealing with my 27 yo son who is a alcoholic. He has been struggling for 3 years at least. He has been hospitalized several times for different things such as A Fib, Acute Pancreatitis, his arms and legs going numb, car accident. He was rushed by ambulance from work because he was drunk and they were concerned for him. He has lost about 3 jobs due to his drinking and has 2 DUI’s and license loss for 2 years. His friends are dropping him and he is now living with me after his room mates who were friends decided they wanted to move and his dad took him in and that lasted 1 1/2 years before his dad had enough of his drinking.
Iv’e been the one who has picked him up over the last 2 1/2 years and brought him to the hospital and I’m so emotionally and physically drained. I’m dealing with anxiety and depression that I’m at my wits end with him. His dad and I placed him in a 30 day program in Long Island that cost us 6,000.00 to avoid jail time, which didn’t help. We did a section 35 and that didn’t work. I tried doing a section 35 again on New Years Eve, but because my son violated probation , they sent him to jail 30 days and still he’s drinking. I’ve taken him to AA meetings , but he says they depress him and make him want to drink. I had him in a dual outpatient program , but he missed yesterday and today due to drinking so he will not be allowed back. My son also has Aspergers which makes this more complicated. I was going to do a section 35 again, but I’m afraid they’ll put him in jail again. I’m at a loss right now and could really use some help. If I throw him out, he has no where to go and I don’t think he’ll chooses rehab. Any suggestions would be helpful!
Dear heartbrokenmom,
Please see this link for Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your comment: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-aspergers-alcohol
Dear Dominique,
I actually have seen my son drunk only twice since he left detox at the end of January with lists of potential programs for him to consider. (During his stay, the social worker tried her best to get him to commit to a program so she could call and schedule it for him, but he said he would take care of it after he left, and, of course, he did not.) This is a part of the problem-he drinks alone in his apartment. He does not drink socially because he rarely goes anywhere or sees anyone, and he does not drink on family occasions when he attends them. He is clearly embarrassed by his drinking.
Since my husband sees him every day, he has seen a pattern since detox. He does not appear to drink every day, but seems to binge on Wednesday and Thursday evenings. The communication skills between father and son are poor at best due to my son’s attitude. When he gets belligerent, my husband just walks away (and shares it with me later).
So, I told my son I needed company for dinner on Monday because this is one of his sober days lately, and he agreed to go out with me. I had previously read module 4 and made a plan to start with small requests and work toward bringing up rehab. While
our conversation was pleasant enough, he stonewalled me. It went something like this:
me – I feel you are bothered by something. Is there something you want to talk about?
him – Not really.
me – You were able to talk with me up until a few years ago, and I’m still ready to listen without comments.
him – That’s good, but I have nothing to talk about.
me – You don’t seem very happy about your life.
him – It doesn’t matter.
me – Can we plan on going out together once a week?
him – I don’t know, maybe.
By this point he seemed to be getting a little irritated so I backed off. I had hoped to bring the conversation around to looking at the programs that have been suggested for him, but it seemed like he was done. So, was my conversation too much like a parent? He did contribute to the bill. He had to stop at the grocery store on the way home, but I did not go in with him as I might have done in the past. I’m struggling between my need to parent my child and his need to get help.
Thanks for “listening.”
Dear esta4,
Follow this link to read Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your comment: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-coaxing-the-little-scared-animal
I want to help my sister who is elderly and my nephew get help for addiction. They have no friends who would join me in an intervention and they need one desperately. I fear for their lives and am always on edge because i’m always expecting a “call” to come through with bad news. This has been going on for a long time now and has gotten worse with her husband’s passing. I was told I would need friends or family with me, in order to have an intervention; but I have no one. How on earth can I help them? I’ve tried for years, but I’m only one person and too exhausted to deal with this alone anymore…They totally isolate and need help. I’ve called other places in the past but they say that the person has to want help. I’m sure an addict is not thinking clear enough to want help. Any form of treatment has failed in the past. I’m mostly concerned with my nephew who has never really had a life and suffers from severe depression in addition. Plus, they’re so enmeshed and codependent. I’ve had to cut them out of my life but want to see them well. Thank you
Christy, Dominique Simon-Levine has published a response to your comment. You can read it here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-theyre-so-enmeshed—can-i-possibly-help
Dominique Simon-Levine has posted a second response, given the new light you shed on the situation with your sister and your nephew. Her latest response can be found here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-they-form-a-closed-loop—what-can-i-do
I appreciate the information on support groups and I have been to many. One thing I find about most of the support groups is that they are geared towards the younger youth population and not the adult child. I was wondering if anyone knows of any groups that are more for the parents of adult children with addiction. Thank you
Hello Mlb2t: Resources narrow substantially for family members of adults, be they adult children or some other relationship. Parents of younger children (and emerging adults) have largely been the ones to mobilize and create support groups for themselves. You can certainly get something from these groups, especially if you are dealing with a child. Even though your son is older, my hunch is that he is very young in his maturation.
We don’t have any information on groups designed for partners or for adult children. Al-Anon is for anybody. Parents though represent a minority of the Al-Anon demographic.
AiR is partnering with the Lahey Behavioral Clinic in Danvers to create hybrid groups that use the AiR website as “teachings” and then a live group for discussion. We invite other professionals on this site to contact us if you’d like to give this a try or want to be kept abreast of our success with the groups.
A comment and a question of sorts. While it has been a challenge to determine when he is high, I am learning and becoming more aware and observant. I have noticed that when I pull away, he tends to follow by engaging me in conversation about treatment. It may be just to engage me, but it seems like that is a start. Additionally, if I understand, and it feels right, we should do all we can to encourage and help him follow through including paying for treatment if we can, making an appointment for admission that he agrees with and helping him complete FMLA paper work. Does that all fit the principles and spirit of CRAFT?
Hi, Not sure how to get info. I am dealing with a loved one who is on a methadone treatment plan. He is absolutely hating this, even though it was his choice years back. It has been 6 yrs and it seems there is no way out.
Problem is that while not arriving at the location in time, one day’s dose was missed and since he “dealt” with the ups and downs that day, now he feels that he can go off of this alone. I am terrified that it is going to spiral even further out of control. I REALLY want him off this plan BUT I feel he is over confident about doing this on his own.
He doesn’t talk to any counselors outside the facility. He hates talking about this at all.
How do I help?
Hi mom101, read Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your comment here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-wants-to-go-off-methadone
I am really struggling today. I know that I need to be firmer with my husband about his drinking and I have been good with it in the past. I just don’t feel like I have the strength anymore to fight it. Due to some insurance issues we needed to stop seeing our therapist for a few weeks. We had only been a few times but I felt hopeful when we were. We go back today but I just don’t feel like rehashing the last 4 weeks again. I feel like we are starting from scratch again and I don’t know if I want to start over anymore. Any advice or does any of this make sense?
Hi fifi, Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your comment. See her post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-am-really-struggling-today
My father has been a functional alcoholic for much of his adult life. He is now almost 80, quite frail, and does little except sleep, and watch television/drink late into the night. Our family has done little over the years to address his alcoholism and the codependency of others that goes along with it. He is a very difficult man to speak to about personal/emotional issues. I would like to try talking with him about his failing health-physical and emotional- and his drinking. I have listened to some of the modules (4&8) on the site and have found these helpful. However I was wondering if you (others) had more specific advice on how to confront alcoholism in an elderly man and what treatment options would be wise should he be willing to accept help. My sister is in the mental health field and is suggesting intervention but I am wary of this route due to his personality and age. Thank you for your assistance and your site. It seems like a great resource.
Hi reachingout7, Dominique Simon-Levine has posted a response to your comment. See “how to address substance abuse in an elderly loved one” on the Discussion Blog. Here’s the link: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-how-to-address-substance-abuse-in-an-elderly-loved
Slowly learning to recognize when he has recently used and to step back. I am not clear on if it would be beneficial to explain ahead of time. “When I think you are using, I will let you know and step back and quit interacting with you.” Then, in the moment, “You are slurring so I expect you are using, I will talk with you another time.” This is my natural inclination, but there is nothing natural about this situation.
Should you or should you not inform your Loved One of your strategy? Dominique Simon-Levine has posted a response to All4All’s comment. You can read her response here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-hide-strategy-or-share-it
My 18 year old daughter continues to ignore any rules. She continually states, I’m 18 and an adult, you can’t tell me what to do. I have been practicing the non-engaging when she is using and trying to reward her when she is sober. I’m very happy to find this site, this approach and I feel like I’m finally connected to people and information that can help me help her. After a year of crisis all associated with her drug and alcohol abuse, including two overdoses, hospitalization, rehab, college drinking incidents, I told my daughter that in order for me to continue financially supporting her at college, she would need to enroll into an alcohol treatment program. She lied and said her therapist was helping her find one. Just before Christmas, I discovered she had gotten a DUI earlier in the fall and the treatment she was referring to was the alcohol education program for first time offenders. I was furious because she lied to me and another family member had agreed not to tell me and bailed her out.
She did respond earlier in the semester, when I told her she needed to find a therapist to see regularly to stay at college after a college drinking incident. She agreed and she has been keeping regular appointments with her therapist, who she tells me she loves. Now, I’m wondering if it was wrong of me to threaten to pull financial support from her for her education. She has always performed very well academically and it’s a source of pride and confidence for her. Should I ignore her rule breaking and disrespectful behavior and just focus on addressing the periods of use and non-use? I would appreciate any advice.
Hi kttrend, re: your question about paying for college, Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your comment in the following post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-be-paying-for-college
My son is addicted to heroin, and for, the exercises, I have difficulty determining if he is using, as I think he is always using. Is it appropriate to have a discussion with him when he is most alert about why and when he uses?
Hello All4All, You’re not sure when your son is high. Dominique Simon-Levine has written a blog post to help clarify. Follow this link: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-i-cant-tell-when-hes-high
I am having a huge dilemma with this..To section or not to section? We tried an intervention…he left and said we are all crazy and on drugs, so we are letting him be…for awhile. What if I do not section him and he overdoses or worse? I will always blame myself for not forcing him to get help…this thought haunts me…I’m the Mom, I’m suppose to take care of my kids, I totally feel responsible.
Hi Mamakin, thanks so much for your comment. Dominique Simon-Levine has responded to your concerns in the following post on the Discussion Blog: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-im-afraid-of-what-could-happen-if-i-dont-protect-h
My 27 yr old son completed treatment for heroin addiction almost a year ago, but has relapsed. Through a series of circumstances he was sleeping on our couch for a few days that turned into weeks. Through our past experiences, my gut tells me we need to send him off on his own to find a place to live. My wife disagrees and thinks we allow him time to come up with a plan. I am new to this site, and it is not clear to me which side CRAFT would come in on this debate.
Hi All4All, read Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your comment here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-he-has-relapsed-and-hes-sleeping-on-my-couch
We have a nephew serving time for non-violent addiction related behaviors. As the potential for release in the spring seems very possible we are trying to find a inpatient rehab facility for him to receive appropriate counseling, etc but seem to be running into the notion that since he will not have been using heroin for approximately 8 months he is therefore not a candidate, even with private pay, for residential rehab. This makes little sense to us since he is not receiving any addiction services while incarcerated and it is creating a very real sense of frustration. Is this the norm in addiction services? And does this mean we are left to only look at outpatient services?
hi dzina, read Dominique Simon-Levine’s response to your comment:
https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-what-is-the-purpose-of-treatment
It is the holidays and we are traveling together. Space is small and not a lot is pre-planned. please advise on a response, if any, when I see behaviors that are perfectly appropriate to the moment, yet, to me, seem a warning sign?
Thank you.
“Christmas is this week…How do you give 2 of your kids money and not the other because you know it will go to drugs? The other kids can really use the money…its not fair to have everyone adjust to his life.” – a recent comment from an AiR member
You’re right to be concerned that giving your son money when he’s struggling with substance abuse is a non-starter. Even gifts will be returned for cash. And I agree, it’s not a fair situation. Can you sneak the money to your other two children and then give all three something that isn’t easily redeemable for cash? Like a family dinner out or a dog sled outing???
The point here is that it isn’t a fair fight. You need to do what is under your control. Not giving your son money is under your control. This is not a time for high morals. Sneak, snoop, whatever. You’ll want to be informed and to not encourage the substance use, wherever you can.
My loved one in recovery is doing well – in fact seems to be doing far better than I am at the present time and I resent this. I feel angry at his upbeat positive attitude and doing so well, while I feel like I am faltering?
Words of wisdom out there?
Thank you.
What a surprise when your Loved One seems to be doing better than you. My guess is your Loved One is doing some recovery work, whether it’s therapy, yoga, AA, or something else. Especially at first, someone newly sober can ride what is commonly called a pink cloud. Their mood is lighter, the weight is lifted, and the world seems new. “Pink clouding” can last months, but eventually there is a dip, when the daily reality of maintaining sobriety gets ahead of that lightness.
A quality recovery is work: good lifelong work. For the family on the sidelines, you may still be vibrating from everything that has gone on. Your nerves are frayed. You’re still not trusting that things are okay. Regaining trust in someone, full trust, can take years. It’s a process and it takes time. It’s understandable that you end up feeling resentful. You see, you have a job to do too. You have to fill that space made free by your Loved One’s change in course. You have to seek out your own ways to feel upbeat and positive. Many of our Sanctuary posts talk about self-care. There are also a number of posts that will cause you to smile. It doesn’t seem fair really, but you are going to need to redouble your efforts at taking the best care of yourself. You prior comment about the holidays is surely related. Don’t let the days ahead feel terrifyingly open and unstructured. Put something to do in each day. I’ll share with you something that I do when I feel blue: I watch YouTube excerpts of Tony Robbins. He’s an inspirational coach whose energy is infectious. So perhaps you find someone on YouTube you find uplifting. Find some way – any way – to live your life to the fullest.
December holidays – ugh. I am supposed to be enjoying these, and even though there are many jokes about the reality of hard “home for the holidays” can be.. I am still in dread, fear, and disappointment about them. whew, I got through Thanksgiving with no major mishaps. g-d help me there is till Christmas and dreaded New Year’s eve.
Help! and Thank you AIR you are wonderful!
The holidays can indeed be a struggle when a Loved One is abusing drugs or alcohol. They can also still be a struggle when your Loved One is doing well. Your family may not be all you want them to be. Perhaps they are off somewhere and you find yourself alone too much of the time. It’s a hard time of year for a lot of us.
There are obvious things to suggest like making a plan to be with others, eating right, getting on the phone, exercising. The one idea I especially like, that is helpful to anyone – family member or Loved One – is to find some way to be useful to others. Being of service is a tenant of AA and for good reason. Focusing on helping another forces us out of our own head. It feels good to reach out to another and can help us feel connected. So, serving food at a homeless shelter? Walking dogs at the local animal shelter? Gathering up old coats for the area survival center? Buying some small toys, wrapping them, and visiting a residential house for women and their children? Doing the research and adding just one activity may help break up what feels like a long hard stretch of time. I hope this helps.
My 23-year old son is in treatment in San Diego and is doing well, for the most part. Unfortunately, he is not complying with all their rules, which has been a recurring problem for him throughout his life. When he told me about the things he was getting infractions for, I told him that I thought he was being unduly persecuted, and I know now that was a mistake. He should be following everything is he asked to do, because he is facing a lot of years in jail for prescription fraud. The report from the facility will be given to the court in his case, and the facility wants to avoid any negative comments, so they want him to be 100% complying with all the rules. I do understand this, but no one, especially and addict, can be 100% perfect all the time. I don’t know what to do. They want to limit my conversations with him to three times per week because they think I am “enabling” him and not helping with his recovery.
Hi debbiek, thanks so much for writing in. Practical Recovery’s Tom Horvath has responded to your comment: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-a-situation-beyond-your-control
My sister has had an alcohol binge addition for about 30 years, she is now 49 years old with a 4 year old daughter. After several scary situations of my sister being passed out while caring for her daughter we did an intervention with the help of someone in recovery. We told her she could not see her daughter until she got help it was 3:00pm and she was drunk to the point of not being able to stand. She agreed to do a 30 day program while one of my other sister cared for her daughter. Unable to find a bed that night to our great relief she called and found a bed for a 5 day detox the next morning, which she then was able with her insurance to extend for another 15 days. Her plan when she gets out is to get her daughter back and go to one weekly meeting from 11-2 and continue to see her therapist for one hour a week. We are concerned that she’s not giving her treatment enough time and the welfare of our niece. We are trying to do this without a second offense with DCF. Are we in over our heads? Can we tell her we want more before she takes on full time care of her daughter?? She is and can be very angry when she is not getting what she wants.
Hi Cdpt, A treatment expert from Practical Recovery in San Diego, CA has responded to your comment. You can read his post here: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-your-loved-one-has-a-major-drinking-problem—-and
Our son has just started in recovery from heroin addiction. He lives at home (moved back last year) and for now we are feeling positive as he seems committed to changing but we know it’s early in the process. We are struggling with the line between enabling and support – he’s back at work, has a good job, but is really in debt. I want to charge him rent partly so he doesn’t have extra money floating around that tempts him to buy even tho I know it’s not in our hands to control that. However this will keep him in debt even longer yet I want him to have the reality of what’s out there – no free rides. Any suggestions on this ? He is 26 years old and works as a mechanic.
PS your website has been extremely helpful for me and I really felt it’s been the best resource ever offered to families struggling with addiction issues. It’s so hopeful in what seems like a hopeless situation much of the time. Thank you so much for all you have done and continue to do. Much appreciated.
Hello Rcvr, I’ve responded to these concerns in a new post, which you can read at https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-should-i-charge-rent-to-my-son-in-recovery.
It’s so hard to have positive talk when I know my husband has been drinking. I can’t seem to get out of the negative talk while he’s drinking or when he’s not (cause I know it won’t last long). I have a wall up when it comes to trying to bridge us together. I feel that being nice will make it seem like it’s ok for him to drink. I seem to be stuck. I guess I’m most concerned that I talk so negatively when I suspect he’s drinking, even if he’s not acting drunk.
Well, you’ve hit the nail right on the head. Getting a handle on how you react when your husband is or is not drinking is at the core of any relationship where someone has a drug or drinking problem. Read more in our latest Discussion blog post, “I Can’t Seem to Get Out of the Negative Talk”: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog_post?id=79
What do I do when my loved one is doing well in treatment and asks for money and to use my car?
Hi Forestthruthetrees, Dominique has responded to your question in the following post: https://alliesinrecovery.net/discussion_blog-rewards-to-avoid-when-your-loved-one-is-in-treatme
Hello, this site is an incredible resource, so well organized and so well thought out. My question: Do you think the principles/approach outlined here mesh well with those of the Al Anon 12-step approach?
Al-Anon focuses primarily on the family member and their recovery from being with someone who abuses substances.
The 12 steps of AA guide this process of self-discovery and healing. Al-Anon stresses our lack of control over someone else’s drug or alcohol use. They believe that there is nothing to be done until the Loved One hits bottom, admits the problem, and stops using. In the meantime, the family member is supposed to detach with love.
At AiR we agree there is no controlling someone’s substance use, BUT we differ on a crucial point: a family member does have influence. A family member is part of the immediate environment and can create the conditions that promote sobriety and recovery.
So it follows that at AiR, we teach the family member a set of skills for better responding to a Loved One’s behavior. When they are using, you’re going to allow natural consequences, detach yourself, and remove rewards. When they aren’t using your going to reward that behavior.
This set of principles applies to the present moment, and can also be applied to the larger decisions that hang over many families: housing, financial support, use of the car, help with the logistics of getting treatment.
Our approach teaches that there are actions you can and should take while your Loved One is still using. By doing so, you will help to unblock the situation, moving your Loved One towards treatment and recovery.
On this important point, AiR’s is different from Al-Anon. However, the support you may gain from a group of people with a shared experience can be so very helpful. If you find Al-Anon helps, by all means seek out meetings BUT also learn the skills we teach at AiR.
70% of families trained in our program succeed in getting their Loved One to enter treatment — this is a critically important outcome that confirms that taking action works. It is proof that you play a role. It is evidence that intervening before a Loved One hits bottom is successful in helping them towards treatment and recovery.
Dominique
I just read this again and I have to say I wish I’d known these concepts when we were in the throes of it 8-9 years ago. These are empowering, HOPE-filled ways of handling our Loved Ones. I now apply these concepts to all areas of life and relationships. Thank you for this work! Families can heal.
Hi and thank you for this site. I am new to it and my loved one is in New York City (my nephew, age 24, who is addicted to heroin and pot and maybe other things too–he has been actively using for several years and is in denial of the problem). His parents who are divorced are very much involved in trying to help him and in trying to stay afloat themselves–very difficult. They are not financially well-off. If anyone out there knows of resources in the NY city area (Staten Island, Brooklyn and Manhattan particularly) that would be helpful to pass along to my brother and ex-sister in law I would be most grateful. They do attend Nar-Anon meetings and are soon to take a Narcan training. Carla of Massachusetts
Thank you for your question, Carla. Wonderful for your nephew that his parents are so active in seeking to become informed and supporting him. As for resources on this site, I suggest going to the Our Resources page (https://alliesinrecovery.net/our_treatment_resources) and follow some of the links suggested there.